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dean.psiropoulos(at)veriz
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 Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:46 pm Post subject: Odyssey Battery Longevity |
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Just finished my fourth annual on the RV-6A. When I built the airplane I
installed the firewall mounted battery kit with the Odyssey PC680 battery.
Being an aficionado of Bob's philosophy I was originally going to replace
the battery after two years of service. I had however, heard many great
things about the Odyssey and decided to keep it in service after my second
annual, it was working perfectly and I could find no reason to spend another
$150 for a new one. Same great service in 2011 so I decided I'd let it run
for one more year. This year I decided I'd replace it regardless of how it
was performing so, I bought a new one and installed it (even though the 4
year old one still cranked the airplane vigorously). I was curious how much
capacity remained in the old battery so I took it to an auto parts store and
had them load test it. Results...4 year old Odyssey still put out 207 of
its 220 CCA rated capacity. That's an incredible 94% capacity remaining
after FOUR years!!! Down here in Florida we are lucky to get 4 years of
service out of a flooded cell car battery and the Odyssey still gives a
whopping 94% of the capacity it had when I bought it! Awesome battery, I
think I let the new one go 5-6 years and see how it performs.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Going on 5 fun filled years
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henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am Post subject: Odyssey Battery Longevity |
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Great story, Dean! Looks like your PC680 is cost effective.
I have Odysseys in my airplane and all of my automobiles (6). This "experiment started about 3.5 years ago, and I had one poop out at 3 years exactly. The rest are still cranking engines and tunes.
As part of your longevity experiment, why not take it out after 2, 3, 4 ... years and have its capacity tested? An interesting observation about my Odyssey failure was that it wasn't catastrophic; instead, it declined steadily. At first I thought it was the fuel system causing delayed starting, but I had its capacity tested and found it at 70% capacity. Replacement solved all problems.
Henador Titzoff
--- On Tue, 10/30/12, DEAN PSIROPOULOS <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> wrote:
[quote]
From: DEAN PSIROPOULOS <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey Battery Longevity
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 30, 2012, 7:42 PM
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <[url=/mc/compose?to=dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net]dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net[/url]>
Just finished my fourth annual on the RV-6A. When I built the airplane I
installed the firewall mounted battery kit with the Odyssey PC680 battery.
Being an aficionado of Bob's philosophy I was originally going to replace
the battery after two years of service. I had however, heard many great
things about the Odyssey and decided to keep it in service after my second
annual, it was working perfectly and I could find no reason to spend another
$150 for a new one. Same great service in 2011 so I decided I'd let it run
for one more year. This year I decided I'd replace it regardless of how it
was performing so, I bought a new one and installed it (even though the 4
year old one still cranked the airplane vigorously). I was curious how much
capacity remained in the old battery so I took it to an auto parts store and
had them load test it. Results...4 year old Odyssey still put out 207 of
its 220 CCA rated capacity. That's an incredible 94% capacity remaining
after FOUR years!!! Down here in Florida we are lucky to get 4 years of
service out of a flooded cell car battery and the Odyssey still gives a
whopping 94% of the capacity it had when I bought it! Awesome battery, I
think I let the new one go 5-6 years and see how it performs.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Going on 5 fun filled ?AeroElectric-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Ae - MATRONICS WEBcom" bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Adontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution [quote][b]
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ronburnett(at)charter.net
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:22 am Post subject: Odyssey Battery Longevity |
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Go to Wholesale Battery for best prices on Odessey, at least here in MO.
Ron Burnett N524RB Subaru powered RV-6A
Sent from my iPadMay you have the blessings of the Lord today.
On Oct 31, 2012, at 4:47 AM, Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com (henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]Great story, Dean! Looks like your PC680 is cost effective.
I have Odysseys in my airplane and all of my automobiles (6). This "experiment started about 3.5 years ago, and I had one poop out at 3 years exactly. The rest are still cranking engines and tunes.
As part of your longevity experiment, why not take it out after 2, 3, 4 ... years and have its capacity tested? An interesting observation about my Odyssey failure was that it wasn't catastrophic; instead, it declined steadily. At first I thought it was the fuel system causing delayed starting, but I had its capacity tested and found it at 70% capacity. Replacement solved all problems.
Henador Titzoff
--- On Tue, 10/30/12, DEAN PSIROPOULOS <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net (dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
[quote]
From: DEAN PSIROPOULOS <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net (dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net)>
Subject: Odyssey Battery Longevity
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Date: Tuesday, October 30, 2012, 7:42 PM
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <[url=/mc/compose?to=dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net]dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net[/url]>
Just finished my fourth annual on the RV-6A. When I built the airplane I
installed the firewall mounted battery kit with the Odyssey PC680 battery.
Being an aficionado of Bob's philosophy I was originally going to replace
the battery after two years of service. I had however, heard many great
things about the Odyssey and decided to keep it in service after my second
annual, it was working perfectly and I could find no reason to spend another
$150 for a new one. Same great service in 2011 so I decided I'd let it run
for one more year. This year I decided I'd replace it regardless of how it
was performing so, I bought a new one and installed it (even though the 4
year old one still cranked the airplane vigorously). I was curious how much
capacity remained in the old battery so I took it to an auto parts store and
had them load test it. Results...4 year old Odyssey still put out 207 of
its 220 CCA rated capacity. That's an incredible 94% capacity remaining
after FOUR years!!! Down here in Florida we are lucky to get 4 years of
service out of a flooded cell car battery and the Odyssey still gives a
whopping 94% of the capacity it had when I bought it! Awesome battery, I
think I let the new one go 5-6 years and see how it performs.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Going on 5 fun filled ?AeroElectric-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Ae - MATRONICS WEBcom" bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Adontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution | Quote: |
===================================
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
===================================
cs.com
===================================
matronics.com/contribution
===================================
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[b]
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:06 am Post subject: Odyssey Battery Longevity |
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Good Morning Dean and Henador,
I wonder what type of capacity check was performed by the facility Dean used?
When I asked my automobile service facility to run a capacity check, they told me they could do it in less than five minutes. According to the directions on my capacity checker, it takes several hours! First, the battery must be checked to assure it is fully charged, then it needs to be discharged at an accurately controlled rate as specified by the manufacturer. Was that protocol followed by the automotive testing facility?
I too have had good luck with a couple of Odyssey batteries I bought, but I do not have any confidence at all in a capacity check such as used at the local battery shop.
Just wonderin'?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 10/31/2012 4:49:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time, henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com writes:
| Quote: | Great story, Dean! Looks like your PC680 is cost effective.
I have Odysseys in my airplane and all of my automobiles (6). This "experiment started about 3.5 years ago, and I had one poop out at 3 years exactly. The rest are still cranking engines and tunes.
As part of your longevity experiment, why not take it out after 2, 3, 4 ... years and have its capacity tested? An interesting observation about my Odyssey failure was that it wasn't catastrophic; instead, it declined steadily. At first I thought it was the fuel system causing delayed starting, but I had its capacity tested and found it at 70% capacity. Replacement solved all problems.
Henador Titzoff
--- On Tue, 10/30/12, DEAN PSIROPOULOS <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: DEAN PSIROPOULOS <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Odyssey Battery Longevity
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 30, 2012, 7:42 PM
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net (dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net)>
Just finished my fourth annual on the RV-6A. When I built the airplane I
installed the firewall mounted battery kit with the Odyssey PC680 battery.
Being an aficionado of Bob's philosophy I was originally going to replace
the battery after two years of service. I had however, heard many great
things about the Odyssey and decided to keep it in service after my second
annual, it was working perfectly and I could find no reason to spend another
$150 for a new one. Same great service in 2011 so I decided I'd let it run
for one more year. This year I decided I'd replace it regardless of how it
was performing so, I bought a new one and installed it (even though the 4
year old one still cranked the airplane vigorously). I was curious how much
capacity remained in the old battery so I took it to an auto parts store and
had them load test it. Results...4 year old Odyssey still put out 207 of
its 220 CCA rated capacity. That's an incredible 94% capacity remaining
after FOUR years!!! Down here in Florida we are lucky to get 4 years of
service out of a flooded cell car battery and the Odyssey still gives a
whopping 94% of the capacity it had when I bought it! Awesome battery, I
think I let the new one go 5-6 years and see how it performs.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Going on 5 fun filled ?AeroElectric-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Ae - MATRONICS WEBcom" bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Adontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:14 am Post subject: Odyssey Battery Longevity |
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At 04:47 AM 10/31/2012, you wrote:
| Quote: | Great story, Dean! Looks like your PC680 is cost effective.
I have Odysseys in my airplane and all of my automobiles (6). This
"experiment started about 3.5 years ago, and I had one poop out at 3
years exactly. The rest are still cranking engines and tunes.
As part of your longevity experiment, why not take it out after 2,
3, 4 ... years and have its capacity tested? An interesting
observation about my Odyssey failure was that it wasn't
catastrophic; instead, it declined steadily. At first I thought it
was the fuel system causing delayed starting, but I had its capacity
tested and found it at 70% capacity. Replacement solved all problems.
|
YES! You got a gold star!
Bob . . .
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:27 am Post subject: Odyssey Battery Longevity |
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At 08:05 AM 10/31/2012, you wrote:
Good Morning Dean and Henador,
I wonder what type of capacity check was performed by the facility Dean used?
When I asked my automobile service facility to run a capacity check,
they told me they could do it in less than five minutes. According
to the directions on my capacity checker, it takes several
hours! First, the battery must be checked to assure it is fully
charged, then it needs to be discharged at an accurately controlled
rate as specified by the manufacturer. Was that protocol followed by
the automotive testing facility?
I too have had good luck with a couple of Odyssey batteries I bought,
but I do not have any confidence at all in a capacity check such as
used at the local battery shop.
Just wonderin'?
A worthy question sir . . .
Bob . . .
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:43 am Post subject: Odyssey Battery Longevity |
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At 09:42 PM 10/30/2012, you wrote:
| Quote: |
<dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Just finished my fourth annual on the RV-6A. When I built the airplane I
installed the firewall mounted battery kit with the Odyssey PC680 battery.
Being an aficionado of Bob's philosophy I was originally going to replace
the battery after two years of service.
|
Allow me to clarify the 'philosophy'. A design goal for
battery management is to maintain a high level of CONFIDENCE
in the battery's ability to perform intended tasks of
(1) getting the engine started and more important (2)
support alternator-out operations to some bench-mark
established by the builder/pilot. That bench mark MAY
be the legacy 30-minutes duration embraced by the TC
aircraft world or duration0-of-fuel-aboard encouraged
by this author.
That standard is achieved by either periodic testing of
battery capacity under loads similar to those expected in
the airplane . . . or simple change out at intervals pretty
much guaranteed to maintain system integrity for battery-only
ops.
This is a judgement call. Cost of ownership must include
the labor and equipment necessary for periodic testing.
A $150 battery rotated out of the airplane costs $75/year.
If 30 minute expenditures of test time, say 4x times over
the next two years forestalls a change-out, then battery
costs are now $37/year + two hours + depreciation of
test equipment.
If the airplane is fitted with two alternators, then
rational design goals might call for leaving a battery
in place until it no longer cranks the engine. I.e. it's
never expected to perform as a standby source of energy.
It's up to the builder to decide where the economics of
a particular philosophy drive the decision to replace
the battery.
| Quote: | I had however, heard many great
things about the Odyssey and decided to keep it in service after my second
annual, it was working perfectly and I could find no reason to spend another
$150 for a new one.
|
On what basis did you assess perfection? What are
the design goals for this battery's utilization
in your airplane?
| Quote: | Same great service in 2011 so I decided I'd let it run
for one more year. This year I decided I'd replace it regardless of how it
was performing so, I bought a new one and installed it (even though the 4
year old one still cranked the airplane vigorously).
|
. . . a prima facie demonstration of performance under
cranking loads.
| Quote: | I was curious how much
capacity remained in the old battery so I took it to an auto parts store and
had them load test it.
|
A load test is not a capacity test. Automotive batteries
are only expected to crank engines. Gross capacity is seldom
an automotive issue and is never tested. Now, if the battery
is used in an RV to run lights and refrigerators, that becomes
a capacity issue for battery that is expected to perform under
deep cycle service.
| Quote: | Results...4 year old Odyssey still put out 207 of
its 220 CCA rated capacity. That's an incredible 94% capacity remaining
after FOUR years!!! Down here in Florida we are lucky to get 4 years of
service out of a flooded cell car battery and the Odyssey still gives a
whopping 94% of the capacity it had when I bought it! Awesome battery, I
think I let the new one go 5-6 years and see how it performs.
|
I have instrumentation batteries that are over 10 years
old and still test at better than 75% of new CAPACITY.
They load test well too . . . well over 200 amps for 15 seconds
at or above 9 volts. They have been well cared for, seldom
deep cycled, and could be dropped into one of my vehicles
for a last gasp at utilitarian service.
I'm not surprised at your experience in that climate. I
suspect as a devotee of the AeroElectric-List, your situational
awareness of electrical system performance is well above
that of the majority of GA pilots. Folks who understand,
observe and react to slips in system performance will enjoy
exemplary service from their electro-whizzies.
Let us take care not to forget the differences between
cranking loads and standby capacity. We're also encouraged
to be mindful of the gross differences in individual requirements
for battery performance driven by overall system configuration
and pilot expectations for how the airplane is used.
The Odyssey is a quality product. I've visited their factory
in Mexico, MO and I was cognizant of Enersys battery performance
in our HBC products. With the right combination of preventative
maintenance, this batter (and no doubt others) will deliver
good value for their cost of acquisition and operation.
Thanks for sharing your experience with us!
Bob . . .
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tonybabb(at)alejandra.net
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:25 am Post subject: Odyssey Battery Longevity |
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Dean,
I'm a little confused. I thought CCA was "Cold Cranking Amps" and was a
measure of the flow of electricity the battery can supply. Capacity is a
certain number of amps for a certain number of hours without the voltage
decreasing below some specified level. Am I misunderstanding something here?
Thanks,
Tony Babb
Velocity SEFG 62% done, 78% to go
www.alejandra.net/velocity
--
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mrspudandcompany(at)veriz
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:34 am Post subject: Odyssey Battery Longevity |
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| Quote: |
I'm a little confused. I thought CCA was "Cold Cranking Amps" and was a
measure of the flow of electricity the battery can supply. Capacity is a
certain number of amps for a certain number of hours without the voltage
decreasing below some specified level. Am I misunderstanding something
here?
|
You have it right! The CCA is a measurement of the ability of the battery
to supply high current for short periods to operate the starter. The
Capacity of the battery, measured in AH is at a much lower constant
amperage. Due to the internal resistance of the battery, there will be a
difference of capacity if it is measured at a higher or lower current drain.
You will find that as you increase the current the AH will decrease. If you
have an electrically dependent aircraft it is a good idea to capacity check
your battery at approximately your normal endurance current.
Roger
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