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Skidding on glassy water
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samira.h(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:53 pm Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

I guess many of you have seen those tail-dragger videos

of the "real" pros skidding their Harvards, Super Cubs,

etc. on smooth lake water.



Now here comes my question:



Has anyone of you guys ever done it and do you have

to be on or off the brakes.



Thank you in advance.



cheers



Elmar

czech6(at)mesanetworks.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:47 pm Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

Are you going to try it? Can I have your car and any other toys you may have? Send picture of wife.



Bill



On Oct 22, 2012, at 7:49 PM, Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer <samira.h(at)shaw.ca> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I guess many of you have seen those tail-dragger videos

 of the "real" pros skidding their Harvards, Super Cubs,

 etc. on smooth lake water.

 

 Now here comes my question:

 

 Has anyone of you guys ever done it and do you have

 to be on or off the brakes.

 

 Thank you in advance.

 

 cheers

 

 Elmar

dabear(at)devere.us
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:42 pm Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

LOL   I was going to say something like that but I decided against it.  



--

tigeryak18t

Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:27 pm Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

Ok keep the wife the car the dog. I would just like any planes or tools or M14P's you may have. Please don't take your Yak for the first (!!!) try!!!!



Seriously do you think it makes any differences to be on the brakes???



Didier Blouzard

+33 6 2424 3672



Le 23 oct. 2012 Ã  03:49, Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer <samira.h(at)shaw.ca> a Ã©crit :



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I guess many of you have seen those tail-dragger videos

 of the "real" pros skidding their Harvards, Super Cubs,

 etc. on smooth lake water.

 

 Now here comes my question:

 

 Has anyone of you guys ever done it and do you have

 to be on or off the brakes.

 

 Thank you in advance.

 

 cheers

 

 Elmar

_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing

czech6(at)mesanetworks.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:59 am Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

Wasn't there a video of the African flight team doing that in Harvards?

I don't think brakes would make a difference other than spinning your tires. Skipping stones is skipping stones.

Bill

On Oct 23, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Didier BLOUZARD <didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Ok keep the wife the car the dog. I would just like any planes or tools or M14P's you may have. Please don't take your Yak for the first (!!!) try!!!!

 Seriously do you think it makes any differences to be on the brakes???

 Didier Blouzard

 +33 6 2424 3672

 Le 23 oct. 2012 Ã  03:49, Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer <samira.h(at)shaw.ca> a Ã©crit :

> 

> 

> I guess many of you have seen those tail-dragger videos

> of the "real" pros skidding their Harvards, Super Cubs,

> etc. on smooth lake water.

> 

> Now here comes my question:

> 

> Has anyone of you guys ever done it and do you have

> to be on or off the brakes.

> 

> Thank you in advance.

> 

> cheers

> 

> Elmar

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:12 am Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

You need to be on the brakes.  It does make a difference.  



Mark Bitterlich

--

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Description:

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457 Time(s)

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:38 am Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

Yes, to turn left while skidding on the water, press the left toe 

brake.  )



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 10/23/2012 9:09 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD wrote:

[quote] You need to be on the brakes.  It does make a difference.



 Mark Bitterlich

 --

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:47 am Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

Seriously though... you need to be on the brakes.  Both. 



Mark 



p.s.  Good one Dennis!  

--

bwade154(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:06 am Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

What about the nose wheel? or should I suggest a modification to the Landing gear system that holds the nose gear up should you consider this in a trike. 

Bill Wade



      

  From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 10:43 AM

 Subject: RE: Skidding on glassy water

  

 

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>



Seriously though... you need to be on the brakes.  Both. 



Mark 



p.s.  Good one Dennis!  

-----Original  Message-----

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese

Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 7:36

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: Skidding on glassy water



--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>



Yes, to turn left while skidding on the water, press the left toe  

brake.  )



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 10/23/2012 9:09 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD wrote:

[quote] You need to be on the brakes.  It does make a difference.



 Mark Bitterlich

 --

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:20 am Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

I would not suggest trying it in anything other than an aircraft equipped with conventional landing gear.  



And for that matter, I am not "suggesting" it in the first place.  



Since this is a public forum and is sometimes indeed read by the FAA, what you say here can be held in front of your face should the FAA decide to.  Thus I am not saying anything more other than you need to be on the brakes.  This can actually be tested with nothing more than a boat, a tire on an axle, and a method of lowering it into the water.  A tire that is allowed to spin up to speed will tend to dig into the water.  A tire that is not rotating will act just like a water ski.  



Mark Bitterlich

--

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:30 am Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19640000612_1964000612.pdf



Doug



 On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:

[quote] --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>

 

 

I would not suggest trying it in anything other than an aircraft equipped with conventional landing gear.

 

 And for that matter, I am not "suggesting" it in the first place.

 

 Since this is a public forum and is sometimes indeed read by the FAA, what you say here can be held in front of your face should the FAA decide to.  Thus I am not saying anything more other than you need to be on the brakes.  This can actually be tested with nothing more than a boat, a tire on an axle, and a method of lowering it into the water.  A tire that is allowed to spin up to speed will tend to dig into the water.  A tire that is not rotating will act just like a water ski.

  

 Mark Bitterlich

 

 

 --

bwade154(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:06 am Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

Hay seeing as were dragging the FAA into the fray would you need a Seaplane rating to attempt this maneuver?

Bill Wade



      

  From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 11:17 AM

 Subject: RE: Skidding on glassy water

  

 

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>



I would not suggest trying it in anything other than an aircraft equipped with conventional landing gear.  



And for that  matter, I am not "suggesting" it in the first place.  



Since this is a public forum and is sometimes indeed read by the FAA, what you say here can be held in front of your face should the FAA decide to.  Thus I am not saying anything more other than you need to be on the brakes.  This can actually be tested with nothing more than a boat, a tire on an axle, and a method of lowering it into the water.  A tire that is allowed to spin up to speed will tend to dig into the water.  A tire that is not rotating will act just like a water ski.  



Mark Bitterlich

--

tigeryak18t

Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:11 am Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

You may be right but why do you need to be on the brakesA few explanations would be more than welcome !!!

Didier

PS : Stil if you can tell me about your planes and other flying stuff you would leave behind !!!!   

  



2012/10/23 Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>

  [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>

   

 Seriously though... you need to be on the brakes.  Both.

 

 Mark

 

 p.s.  Good one Dennis!

 

 

 --

_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:17 am Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

Good answer!



--

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:48 am Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

The real problem lies in judging your height above glassy water-VERY difficult!!



Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5 3LW



Tel:  +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129

www.russianaeros.com

--

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:59 am Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

I am with Mark.

  

 The airplane should have a aft C/G by all means.  The more the  better.  The nose over tendency can be real detrimental with a tail light  machine.  (BTW the B-17 might make a good candidate.  Its the only  airplane I've flown were you can put on the brakes and hold forward on the  yoke.  To a POINT that is.)  But I understand a number of bush pilots  use the technique in their big tired Cubs and such. 

  

 Actually the airplane is hydro plaining, which if you've ever experienced  it in a big jet will scare the shit out of you.  Especially on a moonless  African night landing a blacktopped runway in the wake of a super CB.

  

 Would I do it?  No.  That's why I am an OLD pilot.     (But I don't need to kick start my heart every flight)

  

 Yea forget the nose wheel idea.

  

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

  

  

  

  

  

  

  In a message dated 10/23/2012 11:20:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil writes:

 [quote]-->    Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD"    <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>



I would not suggest trying it in    anything other than an aircraft equipped with conventional landing gear.     



And for that matter, I am not "suggesting" it in the first    place.  



Since this is a public forum and is sometimes indeed read    by the FAA, what you say here can be held in front of your face should the FAA    decide to.  Thus I am not saying anything more other than you need to be    on the brakes.  This can actually be tested with nothing more than a    boat, a tire on an axle, and a method of lowering it into the water.  A    tire that is allowed to spin up to speed will tend to dig into the    water.  A tire that is not rotating will act just like a water ski.     



Mark Bitterlich

--

jland(at)popeandland.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:04 am Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

You'll certainly know real quickly when you've gone too low!

On 10/23/12 12:46 PM, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com>

wrote:



[quote] 

 <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com>

 

 The real problem lies in judging your height above glassy water-VERY

 difficult!!

 

 Richard Goode Aerobatics

 Rhodds Farm

 Lyonshall

 Hereford

 HR5 3LW

 

 Tel:  +44 (0) 1544 340120

 Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129

 www.russianaeros.com

 

 

 --

samira.h(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

This is again a very good example

of pack mentality on this list.



Some immature jokers make fun of a

serious posting and people join in like

sheep - and I thought you are pros.



For those who can read and understand

English, nobody has ever mentioned

tricycle undercarriage or the intention

to try the almost impossible.



The other day I have watched a pilot

(flying a tail-dragger) on YouTube who

suffered an engine failure and was able

to slow down his ditching by skidding on

the water surface. Needless to say he

didn't flip over and he survived without

a scratch.

cheers



Elmar

dabear(at)devere.us
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:05 pm Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

And if you wanted to have a serious conversation, then you should have

started with that premise.   There was little harm in the banter, and it was

meant as such I'm sure.



As to your premise below, sorry, I'd take my chances with gear up given the

choice.  It seems to me that you "might" be able to touch down softly enough

to hydroplane [pun intended] but if you don't you will flip.



My humble opinion... back to the banter and flamewars....



Bear



--

czech6(at)mesanetworks.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:04 pm Post subject: Skidding on glassy water

Well we fooled you.

Immature, that hurts.

That's how we roll here. 

Bill



On Oct 23, 2012, at 2:32 PM, Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer <samira.h(at)shaw.ca> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 This is again a very good example

 of pack mentality on this list.

 

 Some immature jokers make fun of a

 serious posting and people join in like

 sheep - and I thought you are pros.

 

 For those who can read and understand

 English, nobody has ever mentioned

 tricycle undercarriage or the intention

 to try the almost impossible.

 

 The other day I have watched a pilot

 (flying a tail-dragger) on YouTube who

 suffered an engine failure and was able

 to slow down his ditching by skidding on

 the water surface. Needless to say he

 didn't flip over and he survived without

 a scratch.

 

 

 cheers

 

 Elmar

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