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carlossa52(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:09 pm Post subject: upper engine fittings |
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Hello, all
Has anyone had difficulties with the upper engine fittings and the longerons?
Something like the attached pic?
Carlos
CH601-HD, 650 canopy, from plans
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William Dominguez
Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:22 pm Post subject: upper engine fittings |
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Carlos,
Did you build the engine mount fitting yourself or did you buy them from ZAC. In any case, check all the angles of the mount fitting against the plans, if they are ok, check the longeron conforms to the forming template. If the mount fittings angles does not match with the plans, that is your problem. Judging by the picture, it seems there might be an error in the angle formed by the outside edge and the front that attach flat to the firewall (where the bolt goes). The problem could also be that your longeron is over bent.
I'm at the same stage in the build as you are (but I'm building an XLB) and I have clamped the mount fitting to the longeron and there's no misalignment. I built my engine mount fitting (have not welded it yet) and the angles are exactly as per plans.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XLB Plans
Miami, Florida
http://sites.google.com/site/billplane/
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 6:07 PM
Subject: upper engine fittings
Hello, all
Has anyone had difficulties with the upper engine fittings and the longerons?
Something like the attached pic?
Carlos
CH601-HD, 650 canopy, from plans
[quote][b]
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_________________
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom |
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carlossa52(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject: upper engine fittings |
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Hello, Bill
Thanks for the comments.
I am building from plans, but all the steel parts I buy from ZAC - including the fittings.
I have been through the same reasoning you have.
I checked the longerons a couple of times, and they match the plans.
I don't have the drawings for the fittings (6B6-4), only the right bottom quadrant of page 6B6, which shows the positions of the holes on that part.
However, by comparing the fittings (6B6-4) to the longeron template, I believe they are correct.
Which leaves me with the possibility of a badly shaped rear fuselage... Which I find hard to believe, as I have verified measurements more than once.
Obviously I am missing something - if all the parts are good, how can the assembly be misaligned?!
If interested, I uploaded a few pictures to zenith.aero:
http://www.zenith.aero/profile/CarlosSa
Cheers
Carlos
On 7 November 2012 21:22, William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com (bill_dom(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] Carlos,
Did you build the engine mount fitting yourself or did you buy them from ZAC. In any case, check all the angles of the mount fitting against the plans, if they are ok, check the longeron conforms to the forming template. If the mount fittings angles does not match with the plans, that is your problem. Judging by the picture, it seems there might be an error in the angle formed by the outside edge and the front that attach flat to the firewall (where the bolt goes). The problem could also be that your longeron is over bent.
I'm at the same stage in the build as you are (but I'm building an XLB) and I have clamped the mount fitting to the longeron and there's no misalignment. I built my engine mount fitting (have not welded it yet) and the angles are exactly as per plans.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XLB Plans
Miami, Florida
http://sites.google.com/site/billplane/
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com (carlossa52(at)gmail.com)>
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 6:07 PM
Subject: upper engine fittings
Hello, all
Has anyone had difficulties with the upper engine fittings and the longerons?
Something like the attached pic?
Carlos
CH601-HD, 650 canopy, from plans
[b]
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William Dominguez
Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:57 am Post subject: upper engine fittings |
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It looks like you have everything correctly aligned but will ask this just in case, have you checked the firewall vertical angle? If the angle is incorrect, it will affect the positioning of the longerons (too forward or aft) and this will affect the angle but only slightly. If everything is correct, I would call ZAC for a fitting replacement, one with a wider base (on the area in contact with the longeron) that you can trim to the correct size. If you use the one you have, the rear bolt might be to close to the edge of either the aluminum longeron or the fitting base of the fitting or both.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XLB Plans
Miami, Florida
http://sites.google.com/site/billplane/
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: upper engine fittings
Hello, Bill
Thanks for the comments.
I am building from plans, but all the steel parts I buy from ZAC - including the fittings.
I have been through the same reasoning you have.
I checked the longerons a couple of times, and they match the plans.
I don't have the drawings for the fittings (6B6-4), only the right bottom quadrant of page 6B6, which shows the positions of the holes on that part.
However, by comparing the fittings (6B6-4) to the longeron template, I believe they are correct.
Which leaves me with the possibility of a badly shaped rear fuselage... Which I find hard to believe, as I have verified measurements more than once.
Obviously I am missing something - if all the parts are good, how can the assembly be misaligned?!
If interested, I uploaded a few pictures to zenith.aero:
http://www.zenith.aero/profile/CarlosSa
Cheers
Carlos
On 7 November 2012 21:22, William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com (bill_dom(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] Carlos,
Did you build the engine mount fitting yourself or did you buy them from ZAC. In any case, check all the angles of the mount fitting against the plans, if they are ok, check the longeron conforms to the forming template. If the mount fittings angles does not match with the plans, that is your problem. Judging by the picture, it seems there might be an error in the angle formed by the outside edge and the front that attach flat to the firewall (where the bolt goes). The problem could also be that your longeron is over bent.
I'm at the same stage in the build as you are (but I'm building an XLB) and I have clamped the mount fitting to the longeron and there's no misalignment. I built my engine mount fitting (have not welded it yet) and the angles are exactly as per plans.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XLB Plans
Miami, Florida
http://sites.google.com/site/billplane/
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com (carlossa52(at)gmail.com)>
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 6:07 PM
Subject: upper engine fittings
Hello, all
Has anyone had difficulties with the upper engine fittings and the longerons?
Something like the attached pic?
Carlos
CH601-HD, 650 canopy, from plans
www.aeroelectric.c_blank" href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
-========================f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.c========================
==================
[b]
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_________________
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom |
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carlossa52(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:57 am Post subject: upper engine fittings |
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I just measured the firewall angle: 80 deg. To be accurate, 80.1 deg.
I agree I can't continue and use these fittings - I need wider fittings or, preferably, fix the problem.
I am afraid that if I keep the longerons as they are, and get wider fittings, I'll end up having problems with the canopy installation.
Something I have been thinking: the longerons template, if dropped on top of the longerons (assume they are rigid but very light for this imaginary exercise), the edge would follow the longerons exactly, and the front edge should contact the firewall web.
In my case, the templates would (do) follow the longeron shape, but the front edge wouldn't contact the firewall web.
To force the contact between the front edge and the firewall, I would have to rotate the template around the point where it contacts the firewall, next to the firewall's flange, rotating towards the fuse centre line.
If you imagine this, then you arrive at the conclusion that the rear fuse sides should be at a different angle (seen from the top).
The attached file shows what I am trying to describe. The red lines show what I think is my situation, and the blue lines show the correct layout.
And this also does not make sense, as the baggage floor does fit in place, and so do the bulkheads. Argh! I'll have to spend some time tonight measuring stuff (again)...
Thanks a lot for your comments, I appreciate your attempts at helping me.
Best
Carlos
CH601-HD, CH650 canopy, plans
Montreal, Canada
On 8 November 2012 08:56, William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com (bill_dom(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | It looks like you have everything correctly aligned but will ask this just in case, have you checked the firewall vertical angle? If the angle is incorrect, it will affect the positioning of the longerons (too forward or aft) and this will affect the angle but only slightly. If everything is correct, I would call ZAC for a fitting replacement, one with a wider base (on the area in contact with the longeron) that you can trim to the correct size. If you use the one you have, the rear bolt might be to close to the edge of either the aluminum longeron or the fitting base of the fitting or both.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XLB Plans
Miami, Florida
http://sites.google.com/site/billplane/
|
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Ron Lendon
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: upper engine fittings |
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On page 6-B-14 of my XL plans ther is a dimension of 560mm which is half way across the fuselage at the forward lip of the rear baggage shelf. Double that 560 + 560 = 1120mm. Measure this across the top of the baggage shelf to the outside skin. I remember holding that dimension, it's the widest point on the fuselage.
How large is the distance between the two red lines on your original picture?
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_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/ |
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carlossa52(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:12 pm Post subject: upper engine fittings |
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That's approximately what I get (about 44 inches).
I believe the gap was some five millimeters - but I managed to get rid of it but flexing the longerons a bit.
Cheers
Carlos
On Monday, November 12, 2012, Ron Lendon wrote:
| Quote: | --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" <[url=javascript:;]ron.lendon(at)gmail.com[/url]>
On page 6-B-14 of my XL plans ther is a dimension of 560mm which is half way across the fuselage at the forward lip of the rear baggage shelf. Double that 560 + 560 = 1120mm. Measure this across the top of the baggage shelf to the outside skin. I remember holding that dimension, it's the widest point on the fuselage.
How large is the distance between the two red lines on your original picture?
--------
Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
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[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Ron Lendon
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: upper engine fittings |
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It sounds like you got it. Pulling things together is the reason I have so many clamps.
| carlossa52(at)gmail.com wrote: | That's approximately what I get (about 44 inches).
I believe the gap was some five millimeters � - �but I managed to get rid of it but flexing the longerons a bit.
Cheers
Carlos
|
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/ |
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