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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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 Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:04 am Post subject: GPS mounting |
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I am thinking about mounting my Garmin GA-35 antenna on top of the cabin cover just behind the rear door post area where the roof gets thinner. The antenna calls for a ground plane. (first gps ant I've seen wanting one). I'm guessing I will need both thin metal/tin foil, and a grounding wire if I do that. Just wondering what others have done. I likely will put my Dynon GPS ant under the cowl just forward of the firewall, and it doesn't need ground plane.
Kelly
85% done, 90% to go
[quote][b]
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Kelly McMullen
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:15 am Post subject: GPS mounting |
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I mounted both the Garmin 650 and Dynon SkyView GPS antennas on top of the glare shield. Both work perfectly and is as easy an install as you will get. I did the same in the 8A (flying 10 years).
Of interest, given a few minutes the SkyView GPS even locks in when the plane is inside a metal roof hangar with the metal door shut.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 10:04 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: GPS mounting
I am thinking about mounting my Garmin GA-35 antenna on top of the cabin cover just behind the rear door post area where the roof gets thinner. The antenna calls for a ground plane. (first gps ant I've seen wanting one). I'm guessing I will need both thin metal/tin foil, and a grounding wire if I do that. Just wondering what others have done. I likely will put my Dynon GPS ant under the cowl just forward of the firewall, and it doesn't need ground plane.
Kelly
85% done, 90% to go | Quote: | | </==================<www.buildersbooks.comwww.homebuilthelp.comhttp://www.matronic=================[/b] |
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n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:34 am Post subject: GPS mounting |
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I mounted all my GPS antennas, GDL39 module, and my XM antenna under the cowl in front of the firewall. Works awesome and probably save 8 knots of drag  .... Well, at least I don't have to look at them....
-Mike Kraus
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 23, 2012, at 11:14 AM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
[quote] <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
I mounted both the Garmin 650 and Dynon SkyView GPS antennas on top of the glare shield. Both work perfectly and is as easy an install as you will get. I did the same in the 8A (flying 10 years).
Of interest, given a few minutes the SkyView GPS even locks in when the plane is inside a metal roof hangar with the metal door shut.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 10:04 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: GPS mounting
I am thinking about mounting my Garmin GA-35 antenna on top of the cabin cover just behind the rear door post area where the roof gets thinner. The antenna calls for a ground plane. (first gps ant I've seen wanting one). I'm guessing I will need both thin metal/tin foil, and a grounding wire if I do that. Just wondering what others have done. I likely will put my Dynon GPS ant under the cowl just forward of the firewall, and it doesn't need ground plane.
Kelly
85% done, 90% to gohttp://forums.matronics.com=====
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[b]
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Strasnuts
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:24 am Post subject: GPS mounting |
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I had to mount one for my gts800. I used a 10x18 sheet of aluminum epoxied and riveted to cabin top first layer then blended and covered with glass cloth. Can't tell it is there at all. Couldn't use the inside of cabin top because of thickness. When I was testing I used 300mph tape and it worked as a ground plane too. I used the same tape to connect the ground plane to ground by wrapping it to the inside of the cabin top through the 1-1/2 inch coax hole.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 23, 2012, at 8:03, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]I am thinking about mounting my Garmin GA-35 antenna on top of the cabin cover just behind the rear door post area where the roof gets thinner. The antenna calls for a ground plane. (first gps ant I've seen wanting one). I'm guessing I will need both thin metal/tin foil, and a grounding wire if I do that. Just wondering what others have done. I likely will put my Dynon GPS ant under the cowl just forward of the firewall, and it doesn't need ground plane.
Kelly
85% done, 90% to go
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uilthelp.com
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matronics.com/contribution
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cs.com
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jfrjr(at)roadrunner.com
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:40 am Post subject: GPS mounting |
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I am repainting my 10 (professionly this time) and would like to use metallic paint. I have my nav and glide slope ants. in the wing tips, ADSB-IN and GRT gps under fiberglass access panels in front of the windshield, and ELT under the epi. fairing. All the other ants. are mounted externally. I have had LOTS of different opinions about metallic paint over fiberglass interfering with antenna functioning. Does anyone have solid data or information? Thanks, Jay Rowe 320 hours
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 23, 2012, at 8:34 AM, Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net (n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net)> wrote:
[quote]I mounted all my GPS antennas, GDL39 module, and my XM antenna under the cowl in front of the firewall. Works awesome and probably save 8 knots of drag .... Well, at least I don't have to look at them....
-Mike Kraus
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 23, 2012, at 11:14 AM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
I mounted both the Garmin 650 and Dynon SkyView GPS antennas on top of the glare shield. Both work perfectly and is as easy an install as you will get. I did the same in the 8A (flying 10 years).
Of interest, given a few minutes the SkyView GPS even locks in when the plane is inside a metal roof hangar with the metal door shut.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 10:04 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: GPS mounting
I am thinking about mounting my Garmin GA-35 antenna on top of the cabin cover just behind the rear door post area where the roof gets thinner. The antenna calls for a ground plane. (first gps ant I've seen wanting one). I'm guessing I will need both thin metal/tin foil, and a grounding wire if I do that. Just wondering what others have done. I likely will put my Dynon GPS ant under the cowl just forward of the firewall, and it doesn't need ground plane.
Kelly
85% done, 90% to gohttp://forums.matronics.com=====
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ctric.com
| Quote: | www.buildersbooks.com
uilthelp.com
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matronics.com/contribution
===================================
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
===================================
cs.com
===================================
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[b]
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Jim Berry
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:42 am Post subject: Re: GPS mounting |
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Jay,
My Nav antennae are wingtip mounted. There is no discernible difference in performance now that they are painted with a very metallic PPG paint, compared to when they were unpainted.
Jim Berry
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:08 am Post subject: GPS mounting |
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The paint makes no difference.
I have a homebrew wingtip VOR/GS antenna in the 10 and 8A, both metallic paint. They work well.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Rowe
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 12:40 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: GPS mounting
I am repainting my 10 (professionly this time) and would like to use metallic paint. I have my nav and glide slope ants. in the wing tips, ADSB-IN and GRT gps under fiberglass access panels in front of the windshield, and ELT under the epi. fairing. All the other ants. are mounted externally. I have had LOTS of different opinions about metallic paint over fiberglass interfering with antenna functioning. Does anyone have solid data or information? Thanks, Jay Rowe 320 hours
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 23, 2012, at 8:34 AM, Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net (n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
I mounted all my GPS antennas, GDL39 module, and my XM antenna under the cowl in front of the firewall. Works awesome and probably save 8 knots of drag .... Well, at least I don't have to look at them....
-Mike Kraus
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 23, 2012, at 11:14 AM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
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| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: GPS mounting |
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I can tell you that a friend with RV-7A put a Bob Archer nav antenna in
one wingtip, along with marker antenna, and a BA com antenna in the
other wingtip. They worked fine until he had the wingtips painted
metallic silver to go with his polished alum airframe. The metallic
paint reduced the reception and transmit range to about 10 miles of
mediocre quality. He wound up putting a CI-122 on a wing access panel to
restore com function to reasonable range.
On 11/23/2012 10:40 AM, Jay Rowe wrote:
| Quote: | I am repainting my 10 (professionly this time) and would like to use
metallic paint. I have my nav and glide slope ants. in the wing tips,
ADSB-IN and GRT gps under fiberglass access panels in front of the
windshield, and ELT under the epi. fairing. All the other ants. are
mounted externally. I have had LOTS of different opinions about
metallic paint over fiberglass interfering with antenna functioning.
Does anyone have solid data or information? Thanks, Jay Rowe 320 hours
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 23, 2012, at 8:34 AM, Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net
<mailto:n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>> wrote:
> I mounted all my GPS antennas, GDL39 module, and my XM antenna under
> the cowl in front of the firewall. Works awesome and probably save 8
> knots of drag .... Well, at least I don't have to look at them....
> -Mike Kraus
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 23, 2012, at 11:14 AM, "Carl Froehlich"
> <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net <mailto:carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>> wrote:
>
>> I mounted both the Garmin 650 and Dynon SkyView GPS antennas on top
>> of the glare shield. Both work perfectly and is as easy an install
>> as you will get. I did the same in the 8A (flying 10 years).
>>
>> Of interest, given a few minutes the SkyView GPS even locks in when
>> the plane is inside a metal roof hangar with the metal door shut.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Kelly
>> McMullen
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 23, 2012 10:04 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
>> *Subject:* GPS mounting
>>
>> I am thinking about mounting my Garmin GA-35 antenna on top of the
>> cabin cover just behind the rear door post area where the roof gets
>> thinner. The antenna calls for a ground plane. (first gps ant I've
>> seen wanting one). I'm guessing I will need both thin metal/tin
>> foil, and a grounding wire if I do that. Just wondering what others
>> have done. I likely will put my Dynon GPS ant under the cowl just
>> forward of the firewall, and it doesn't need ground plane.
>> Kelly
>> 85% done, 90% to go
>>
>> * *
>> * *www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com><www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>http://www.matronics.com/c= -Matt Dralle, List - The RV10-List Email Forum utilities such as List Photoshare, and much much -->http://www.matronic================= <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>=====
>> * *
>> *
>>
>> ===================================
>> ctric.com <http://ctric.com>
>> >www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>
>> uilthelp.com <http://uilthelp.com>
>> matronics.com/contribution <http://matronics.com/contribution>
>> ===================================
>> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
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>> *
> *
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> >www.buildersbooks.com
> uilthelp.com
> matronics.com/contribution
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> *
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*
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:08 pm Post subject: GPS mounting |
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Any concerns about heat? Anyone actually measured temps between engine mount and firewall? Of course any engine fire could get real expensive in a hurry if it damaged those units.
On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net (n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net)> wrote:
[quote]I mounted all my GPS antennas, GDL39 module, and my XM antenna under the cowl in front of the firewall. Works awesome and probably save 8 knots of drag .... Well, at least I don't have to look at them....
-Mike Kraus
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 23, 2012, at 11:14 AM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
I mounted both the Garmin 650 and Dynon SkyView GPS antennas on top of the glare shield. Both work perfectly and is as easy an install as you will get. I did the same in the 8A (flying 10 years).
Of interest, given a few minutes the SkyView GPS even locks in when the plane is inside a metal roof hangar with the metal door shut.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 10:04 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: GPS mounting
I am thinking about mounting my Garmin GA-35 antenna on top of the cabin cover just behind the rear door post area where the roof gets thinner. The antenna calls for a ground plane. (first gps ant I've seen wanting one). I'm guessing I will need both thin metal/tin foil, and a grounding wire if I do that. Just wondering what others have done. I likely will put my Dynon GPS ant under the cowl just forward of the firewall, and it doesn't need ground plane.
Kelly
85% done, 90% to go http://forums.matronics.com=====
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_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
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Kelly McMullen
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: GPS mounting |
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Jay and others: if the "metallic paint" actually conducts electricity (put an ohmeter on it) then it will affect the internal antenna's reception. However if the paint has tiny metallic flakes which are insulated from each other by the rest of the paint then the effect will be much smaller.
Fiberglass top ground plane: There is no need to run a wire to the airframe. All of the currents in the ground plane should flow in and out of the coax ground shield. (The ground plane looks like a "mirror" to the vertical antenna, and acts in the same way). However, I would be concerned with a ground plane on the inside of the cabin and the antenna on the outside. They should be close to each other, close meaning in terms of wavelength. GPS is at 1.6 GHz which has a wavelength of 20 cm. I'd want the ground plane within 2 cm, minimum (3/4"), closer is better. How thick is the top?
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject: GPS mounting |
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I have yet to understand why a GPS antenna needs a ground plane, when those in handhelds, Ipads, etc work great without one. Given the size of the antenna one would expect a full dipole rather than a quarter wave. Dynon's antenna/receiver is smaller than the Garmin antenna and needs no ground plane.
I would guess the area of the top I am looking at is around 1/3-1/2" thick, not the area around the doors that is probably 1.5" thick with the foam sandwich.
On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:
[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>
Fiberglass top ground plane: There is no need to run a wire to the airframe. All of the currents in the ground plane should flow in and out of the coax ground shield. (The ground plane looks like a "mirror" to the vertical antenna, and acts in the same way). However, I would be concerned with a ground plane on the inside of the cabin and the antenna on the outside. They should be close to each other, close meaning in terms of wavelength. GPS is at 1.6 GHz which has a wavelength of 20 cm. I'd want the ground plane within 2 cm, minimum (3/4"), closer is better. How thick is the top?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
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Strasnuts
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:48 pm Post subject: GPS mounting |
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For my GTS800 antenna the top is too thick to use a ground plane on the
inside. It will not work, I tried this. When I installed this antenna I
tried to follow Garmins recommendations for grounding. The GTS800 has an
O-ring like many other GPS antennas and as you can read below it states to
use the mounting screws, not the coax. This is for the GTS800 not the GPS.
Below is part of the GTS800 instructions. Further down you can read Garmin's
instructions for the G3X GPS/XM antenna concerning the ground plane. It
states the mounting screws AND the coax.
2.3 Electrical Bonding
Electrical equipment, supporting brackets, and racks should be electrically
bonded to the aircraft's main
structure. Refer to SAE ARP 1870 section 5 when surface preparation is
required to achieve electrical
bond. The electrical bond should achieve direct current (DC) resistance less
than or equal to 2.5
milliohms to local structure to where the equipment is mounted. Compliance
should be verified by
inspection using a calibrated milliohm meter. An equivalent OEM procedure
may also be substituted.
There may be OEM-specific reasons for electrically isolating equipment or
having a higher bond
resistance. These reasons should be rationalized upon installation approval.
In general, Garmin
recommends that all GTS 8XX equipment be electrically bonded.
The antenna ground plane and doubler plate must be electrically bonded to
the antenna baseplate. The
electrical bond must achieve direct current (DC) resistance less than or
equal to 2.5 milliohms.
For composite aircraft, the antenna baseplate must be electrically bonded to
the common ground of other
installed equipment for lightning purposes. This can be achieved through the
antenna mounting screws.
G3X GPS/XM Antenna
6.4.5 Antenna Grounding Plane
Although no ground plane is required, the antennas typically perform better
when a ground plane is used.
The ground plane should be a conductive surface as large as practical, with
a minimum diameter of 8
inches. To use an antenna in aircraft with fabric or composite skin, a
ground plane is recommended. It is
usually installed under the skin of the aircraft, below the antenna, and is
made of either aluminum sheet or
of wire mesh.
6.4.6 Antenna Grounding
The antenna is grounded through the mounting hardware and the coax
connection. The mounting
hardware (washers and nuts) and doubler plate should make contact with an
unpainted grounded surface
ensuring proper antenna grounding. It is important to have good conductivity
between the coaxial shield
and the ground plane. The bottom of the antenna does not need to make
contact with the ground plane
(i.e. the surface may be painted).
From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: GPS mounting
| Quote: |
Jay and others: if the "metallic paint" actually conducts electricity (put
an ohmeter on it) then it will affect the internal antenna's reception.
However if the paint has tiny metallic flakes which are insulated from
each other by the rest of the paint then the effect will be much smaller.
Fiberglass top ground plane: There is no need to run a wire to the
airframe. All of the currents in the ground plane should flow in and out
of the coax ground shield. (The ground plane looks like a "mirror" to the
vertical antenna, and acts in the same way). However, I would be concerned
with a ground plane on the inside of the cabin and the antenna on the
outside. They should be close to each other, close meaning in terms of
wavelength. GPS is at 1.6 GHz which has a wavelength of 20 cm. I'd want
the ground plane within 2 cm, minimum (3/4"), closer is better. How thick
is the top?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388759#388759
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:41 pm Post subject: GPS mounting |
|
|
It may be that Garmin just wants the base of the antenna to be grounded, as opposed to what we normally think of as a ground plane. That would of course be accomplished through the coax as someone pointed out. My sense has always been that the GPS antenna has the ground plane built in. I've mounted many to fiberglass in the past but not to the top of a 10. I don't think I'd hesitate. It's receive only so you can't really hurt anything, you just risk poor antenna performance.
--Dave
On Nov 23, 2012, at 17:46, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]I have yet to understand why a GPS antenna needs a ground plane, when those in handhelds, Ipads, etc work great without one. Given the size of the antenna one would expect a full dipole rather than a quarter wave. Dynon's antenna/receiver is smaller than the Garmin antenna and needs no ground plane.
I would guess the area of the top I am looking at is around 1/3-1/2" thick, not the area around the doors that is probably 1.5" thick with the foam sandwich.
On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>
Fiberglass top ground plane: There is no need to run a wire to the airframe. All of the currents in the ground plane should flow in and out of the coax ground shield. (The ground plane looks like a "mirror" to the vertical antenna, and acts in the same way). However, I would be concerned with a ground plane on the inside of the cabin and the antenna on the outside. They should be close to each other, close meaning in terms of wavelength. GPS is at 1.6 GHz which has a wavelength of 20 cm. I'd want the ground plane within 2 cm, minimum (3/4"), closer is better. How thick is the top?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388759#388759
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