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frank goodnight
Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 126
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 Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:33 am Post subject: new 701 pilot |
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[img]cid:1356362220542(at)dclient.mail.yahoo.com[/img] Hi All,
Just finished my 701 and am starting to fly off my
phase 1. I have a couple of questions that I'm sure
some of you that fly a 701 can answer. What seems to be the most common airspeed for final and short final? Not
for a short field, just a normal runway paved or grass, I have been using 60 mph --works-- but would like to know what most of you use. Also for 1st time use of flaps, would you prefer to do it on takeoff , or up a couple thousand feet while doing slow flight and stalls ? Thanks for any help you can give me.
Frank Goodnight
Fayetteville , AR
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dougsnash
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:26 am Post subject: new 701 pilot |
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Frank, congrats on getting into the air.
Each plane is going to be a bit different and you will have to develop a "works for you" approach to flying yours. For me I use 55 mph indicated for approach and slow to 45-50 on ery short final. I maintain about 3000 to 3500 rpm on short final as the 701 drops like a stone if you aren't careful. For flaps, don't use them for takeoff. They are essentially barn doors and generally slow takeoff performance more than help it. It is probably a good idea to try them out at altitude before you try landing with them but short final is where you will run into issues if you are going to have any. Try landing with the flaps carrying "too much" power in the roundout at first; try 4000 to 4300 rpm. Once you are comfortable with their effect then decrease the round-out RPM gradually until you find your sweet spot. Be careful about "dropping it in", the gear is pretty tough for a light plane but it only takes one or two drops to permanantly splay the wheels.
Hope this helps.
Doug M
CH-701from scratch
NW Ontario, Canada
From: frank goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net>
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 9:32:57 AM
Subject: new 701 pilot
[img]cid:1.1816663033(at)web160404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com[/img] Hi All,
Just finished my 701 and am starting to fly off my
phase 1. I have a couple of questions that I'm sure
some of you that fly a 701 can answer. What seems to be the most common airspeed for final and short final? Not
for a short field, just a normal runway paved or grass, I have been using 60 mph --works-- but would like to know what most of you use. Also for 1st time use of flaps, would you prefer to do it on takeoff , or up a couple thousand feet while doing slow flight and stalls ? Thanks for any help you can give me.
Frank Goodnight
Fayetteville , AR
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john.marzulli(at)gmail.co
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:54 am Post subject: new 701 pilot |
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I second Doug's thoughts.
Use the flaps first during slow flight and at a safe altitude. If you have the factory default flap handle be prepared to use a lot of force to get them down. Some slow flight testing with the factory setup was more than enough to convince me to buy the Kube Kontrol.
Here are my tips for landing the 701
1) 55MPH on final is normally what I use. If I am doing really short landings then I slow up to 35-40, but to do that you have to get behind on the power curve which requires tons of right rudder and decent experience with the plane. It can be uncomfortable at first.
2) Use power to control your descent rate.
3) Do not use flaps at all during your first ten hours for take off or landing.
4) Get the Kube Control if you do not already have it.
5) Keep your feet on the rudders.
6) A single notch of flaps will get you off the ground a little sooner, but will decrease your climb rate.
Good luck!
-John
John Marzulli
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 9:25 AM, MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com (dougsnash(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Frank, congrats on getting into the air.
Each plane is going to be a bit different and you will have to develop a "works for you" approach to flying yours. For me I use 55 mph indicated for approach and slow to 45-50 on ery short final. I maintain about 3000 to 3500 rpm on short final as the 701 drops like a stone if you aren't careful. For flaps, don't use them for takeoff. They are essentially barn doors and generally slow takeoff performance more than help it. It is probably a good idea to try them out at altitude before you try landing with them but short final is where you will run into issues if you are going to have any. Try landing with the flaps carrying "too much" power in the roundout at first; try 4000 to 4300 rpm. Once you are comfortable with their effect then decrease the round-out RPM gradually until you find your sweet spot. Be careful about "dropping it in", the gear is pretty tough for a light plane but it only takes one or two drops to permanantly splay the wheels.
Hope this helps.
Doug M
CH-701from scratch
NW Ontario, Canada
From: frank goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)>
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 9:32:57 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: new 701 pilot
[img]cid:1.1816663033(at)web160404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com[/img] Hi All,
Just finished my 701 and am starting to fly off my
phase 1. I have a couple of questions that I'm sure
some of you that fly a 701 can answer. What seems to be the most common airspeed for final and short final? Not
for a short field, just a normal runway paved or grass, I have been using 60 mph --works-- but would like to know what most of you use. Also for 1st time use of flaps, would you prefer to do it on takeoff , or up a couple thousand feet while doing slow flight and stalls ? Thanks for any help you can give me.
Frank Goodnight
Fayetteville , AR
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john.marzulli(at)gmail.co
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:50 am Post subject: new 701 pilot |
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Frank: This may make it easier (although I admit to having a little too much right rudder on final)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aehqzChzJ4c
John Marzulli
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 9:25 AM, MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com (dougsnash(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Frank, congrats on getting into the air.
Each plane is going to be a bit different and you will have to develop a "works for you" approach to flying yours. For me I use 55 mph indicated for approach and slow to 45-50 on ery short final. I maintain about 3000 to 3500 rpm on short final as the 701 drops like a stone if you aren't careful. For flaps, don't use them for takeoff. They are essentially barn doors and generally slow takeoff performance more than help it. It is probably a good idea to try them out at altitude before you try landing with them but short final is where you will run into issues if you are going to have any. Try landing with the flaps carrying "too much" power in the roundout at first; try 4000 to 4300 rpm. Once you are comfortable with their effect then decrease the round-out RPM gradually until you find your sweet spot. Be careful about "dropping it in", the gear is pretty tough for a light plane but it only takes one or two drops to permanantly splay the wheels.
Hope this helps.
Doug M
CH-701from scratch
NW Ontario, Canada
From: frank goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)>
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 9:32:57 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: new 701 pilot
[img]cid:1.1816663033(at)web160404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com[/img] Hi All,
Just finished my 701 and am starting to fly off my
phase 1. I have a couple of questions that I'm sure
some of you that fly a 701 can answer. What seems to be the most common airspeed for final and short final? Not
for a short field, just a normal runway paved or grass, I have been using 60 mph --works-- but would like to know what most of you use. Also for 1st time use of flaps, would you prefer to do it on takeoff , or up a couple thousand feet while doing slow flight and stalls ? Thanks for any help you can give me.
Frank Goodnight
Fayetteville , AR
|
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jf3sb
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Olathe, KS
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: new 701 pilot |
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I've never flown anything but Cessna 152s and 172's until I started on my 701 Phase I so the transition has taken some time and is still very much ongoing.
I've been using 55 KIAS on base and final with no flaps, mainly because there's usually other faster traffic in the Class D that I don't want to hold up. 45-50 works, but its not very polite for the Citation who's hot on my butt... I'm also gradually flying narrower patterns as I get more familiar with it. If I fly the standard "Cessna" pattern, (1/2 mile base and final) I end up having to drag it in with a lot of power. The higher airspeed over the numbers always makes it easier to grease it on and save the tires.
On short and soft fields I expect my norm will be full flaps and 40 KIAS or so, but I haven't played with it enough yet to know. I definitely agree that its best to get comfortable with the flaps at altitude first as they really add a lot of drag, and it already can drop out on you even without flaps if you take too much power out too fast.
Check out John Marzulli's videos on You-tube and Roger at Zenith has a good one on there too. I mounted a video camera in the cockpit kind of on the same order as John's and plugged the mic into the intercom. That really helped a lot during Phase I testing, especially if you only get a chance to fly every few weeks.
Enjoy the ride. If you go into it with the same attitude as building, the flight testing is every bit as fun.
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sonar1@cox.net
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 55
Location: Santa Barbara, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:44 am Post subject: Re: new 701 pilot |
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Hi Frank:
Congrats on finishing.
My patterns at my uncontrolled airport are very close-in.
I use 60 mph on final no-flap and pull the power at the threshold.
For short field, when I turn final, I slow to 50 so I can get the flaps down - any faster, and it is really hard - and pull off ALL the power. The approach is steep, but is controllable. Don't like ever getting behind the power curve, as some 701 drivers do. If I am going to overshoot the end of the runway, I have discovered that slowing does not steepen the glide angle - I have to dive and pick up speed, and then pull it back to 50. When to flare is obvious, and I have had very few miscalculations. Often will get radio calls about "wow - now that's a short field landing"
Fred Sanford - flying since 2003
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PTIPTON(at)sw.org
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject: new 701 pilot |
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Congratulations on getting up in the air.
The 701 is certainly much different than the Cessna’s or anything else for that matter. My pattern is flown mostly at cruise speed (90-95 MPH). My pattern is flown pretty close to the runway. Opposite the end of the runway I reduce RPM (on the Rotax 912) to 3,000. I turn my base at a 45 to the end of the runway having reduced speed to 60. I will gradually reduce speed to 50 on short final and carry that to the runway. My RPM will remain about 3,000. The less I fool with the throttle the more stabilized approach I make. I can land in 300-500’ that way. I don’t bother with the flaps. I don’t need to land shorter than that. The more flaps are applied the less flair will happen and the more accurate you are going to have to be with height above the runway. With full flaps you can land and park it at the same time. It simply stops flying and drops in from whatever height you happen to be. Ask me how I know that!
Even without flaps, takeoffs are a 4-5 second deal. Flaps do nothing but slow you down and increase the time you remain in ground effect. The wing + slat works great all by itself. Fly away at 60 to get height quickly or 70 for passengers to feel more comfortable.
It is a plane with a simple, well thought out design.
It is fun to fly… happy flying!
Paul Tipton
321PT
300 hours
This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the named individual. If you are not the named individual you are strictly prohibited from disseminating, distributing, or copying this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. The sender expressly reserves all privileges and confidentiality which might otherwise be waived as a result of an erroneous or misdirected transmission. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. No employee or agent is authorized to conclude any binding agreement on behalf of Scott & White Healthcare or any affiliated entity with another party by email without express written confirmation by the CEO or the Vice President of Supply Chain Services. Scott & White Healthcare www.sw.org [quote][b]
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frank goodnight
Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:03 pm Post subject: new 701 pilot |
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There were too many responces to my questions for me to thank each person .
So I would like to say thanks to everyone that took the time to send me information.
The answers gave me a feel for what is the usual way to proceed with my phase 1.
Much more confidence inspiring than guessing , like i was doing.
Fly safe and fair winds .
Frank Goodnight
From: jf3sb <jf3sb(at)yahoo.com>
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue, December 25, 2012 7:58:41 PM
Subject: Re: new 701 pilot
--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "jf3sb" <jf3sb(at)yahoo.com (jf3sb(at)yahoo.com)>
I've never flown anything but Cessna 152s and 172's until I started on my 701 Phase I so the transition has taken some time and is still very much ongoing.
I've been using 55 KIAS on base and final with no flaps, mainly because there's usually other faster traffic in the Class D that I don't want to hold up. 45-50 works, but its not very polite for the Citation who's hot on my butt... I'm also gradually flying narrower patterns as I get more familiar with it. If I fly the standard "Cessna" pattern, (1/2 mile base and final) I end up having to drag it in with a lot of power. The higher airspeed over the numbers always makes it easier to grease it on and save the tires.
On short and soft fields I expect my norm will be full flaps and 40 KIAS or so, but I haven't played with it enough yet to know. I definitely agree that its best to get comfortable with the flaps at altitude first as they really add a lot of drag, and it already can drop out on you even without flaps if you take too much power out too fast.
Check out John Marzulli's videos on You-tube and Roger at Zenith has a good one on there too. I mounted a video camera in the cockpit kind of on the same order as John's and plugged the mic into the intercom. That really helped a lot during Phase I testing, especially if you only get a chance to fly every few weeks.
Enjoy the ride. If you go into it with the same attitude as building, the flight testing is every bit as fun.
Read this topic online here:
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ch701builder(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:08 am Post subject: new 701 pilot |
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All, here is a link to a youtube video with Roger Dubbert at the controls. He does a good naraition of flying and landing the 701.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKlbrsZwEA4
Keith
Colorado
(still 701 scratch building)
*************************************************************
From: "sonar1(at)cox.net" <sonar1(at)cox.net>
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: new 701 pilot
--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "sonar1(at)cox.net (sonar1(at)cox.net)" <sonar1(at)cox.net (sonar1(at)cox.net)>
Hi Frank:
Congrats on finishing.
My patterns at my uncontrolled airport are very close-in.
I use 60 mph on final no-flap and pull the power at the threshold.
For short field, when I turn final, I slow to 50 so I can get the flaps down - any faster, and it is really hard - and pull off ALL the power. The approach is steep, but is controllable. Don't like ever getting behind the power curve, as some 701 drivers do. If I am going to overshoot the end of the runway, I have discovered that slowing does not steepen the glide angle - I have to dive and pick up speed, and then pull it back to 50. When to flare is obvious, and I have had very few miscalculations. Often will get radio calls about "wow - now that's a short field landing"
Fred Sanford - flying since 2003
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewsp; * AeroElectric [url=http://www.aeroelectric.core http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List[/url]========================
[quote][b]
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