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Bob H
Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 43
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 Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:36 am Post subject: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13 |
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As I've mentioned several times previously, the stiffness is due to the CTE
differences between glass wing and aluminum ailerons. Commercial aircraft
use a sliding hinge arrangement to allow for the differences. You could
relieve the hinge fit up or lubricate it often to minimize the effect.
Bob H
| Quote: | From: Pulsar-List Digest Server <pulsar-list(at)matronics.com>
Reply-To: <pulsar-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 23:58:22 -0800
To: Pulsar-List Digest List <pulsar-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete Pulsar-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Pulsar-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2
013-01-04&Archive=Pulsar
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
13-01-04&Archive=Pulsar
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Pulsar-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 01/04/13: 4
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:21 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Bill Landucci)
2. 09:30 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Petra Vomberg)
3. 09:56 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Larry Wheat)
4. 09:56 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Tom Gibbons)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 05:21:52 AM PST US
From: Bill Landucci <bill.landucci(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Stiff Aileron
I as well have noticed this. The good thing is that it didn't seem to
get any worse at extreme cold temps. I've registered -20F on several
flights, and on several occasions, not much warmer than that while doing
pre-flight control checks. Stiff, but still smooth and responsive - no
sticking.
The rudder, on the other hand, gets very 'sticky' when warm. Especially
on hot days during the flight or after landing. I think this is due to
the nylon bushings in the steel tubes of the rudder pedal assembly. The
rudder moves smoothly on it's hinges, but the pedal assembly sticks. In
the series III the water coolant lines (four 1" hoses) run under the
pedal assembly platform - providing some nice radiant heat.
Bill L
On Jan 3, 2013, at 7:42 PM, barrynorman(at)comcast.net wrote:
> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F
temps that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than
normal. After I landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong.
It appeared to have improved some on the ground with slightly higher
temps in the low 30s. After thinking about it today I looked up the
expansion/contraction rate of wood (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron)
and did a calculation on the length of the aileron and found the
difference was .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if that's enough to
create bind in the hinges due to the difference in installed temp and
the cold air I was flying in. When I think back to when I was testing
the plane 7 years ago in cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm
considering removing the ailerons and filing a little more clearance in
the tabs on the hinges to see if that helps the situation.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Barry
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 09:30:01 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Stiff Aileron
From: Petra Vomberg <pv.ds(at)t-online.de>
Barry,
On my Pulsar III, I also have stiff ailerons at below freezing temps. I
just used an oil on the hinges, the aileron control tube slider bushing, and
all ball joints thats good for low temps to help the situation.
Regards
Dan
Am 04.01.2013 2:42 Uhr schrieb "barrynorman(at)comcast.net" unter
<barrynorman(at)comcast.net>:
> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F temps
> that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than normal. After I
> landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong. It appeared to have
> improved some on the ground with slightly higher temps in the low 30s. After
> thinking about it today I looked up the expansion/contraction rate of wood
> (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron) and did a calculation on the length of the
> aileron and found the difference was .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if
> that's enough to create bind in the hinges due to the difference in installed
> temp and the cold air I was flying in. When I think back to when I was
> testing
> the plane 7 years ago in cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm considering
> removing the ailerons and filing a little more clearance in the tabs on the
> hinges to see if that helps the situation.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Barry
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 09:56:01 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Stiff Aileron
From: Larry Wheat <lwheat2083(at)gmail.com>
I experienced the same thing BUT my problem was the center stick. I
disconnected the ailerons and the stiffness remained leaving the joystick
as the culprit. I burnished and polished several times with crocus cloth
and polishing wheel. After 5-6 tries I finally got it to the right diameter
for a good fit. The perplexing thing is that it was normal for 50 hrs. All
of a sudden in 45 degree weather it stiffened up. Some food for thought.
Don't know if it is the aluminum (which should have contracted if anything)
or the micarta bearings. Anyway seems to be ok now. Some food for thought,
Cheers, Larry N852LW
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 5:42 PM, <barrynorman(at)comcast.net> wrote:
> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F
> temps that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than normal.
> After I landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong. It
> appeared to have improved some on the ground with slightly higher temps in
> the low 30s. After thinking about it today I looked up the
> expansion/contraction rate of wood (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron) and
> did a calculation on the length of the aileron and found the difference was
> .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if that's enough to create bind in
> the hinges due to the difference in installed temp and the cold air I was
> flying in. When I think back to when I was testing the plane 7 years ago in
> cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm considering removing the ailerons
> and filing a little more clearance in the tabs on the hinges to see if that
> helps the situation.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Barry
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Larry Wheat
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 09:56:49 AM PST US
From: "Tom Gibbons" <TomisFlyingby(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Stiff Aileron
Seems to me like a great question for Mr. Hartunian! Bob??
Always wondered about that up here in the REAL cold land!
Tom
From: barrynorman(at)comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 7:42 PM
Subject: Stiff Aileron
I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F
temps that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than
normal. After I landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong.
It appeared to have improved some on the ground with slightly higher
temps in the low 30s. After thinking about it today I looked up the
expansion/contraction rate of wood (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron)
and did a calculation on the length of the aileron and found the
difference was .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if that's enough to
create bind in the hinges due to the difference in installed temp and
the cold air I was flying in. When I think back to when I was testing
the plane 7 years ago in cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm
considering removing the ailerons and filing a little more clearance in
the tabs on the hinges to see if that helps the situation.
Any thoughts?
Barry
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barrynorman(at)comcast.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:10 am Post subject: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13 |
|
|
Thanks Bob for confirming my thoughts and for everyone else who responded. I'll relieve the clearance on the hinges as they are already well lubricated.
Happy New Year!
Thanks,
Barry
From: "Bob Hartunian" <bobh5(at)earthlink.net>
To: "pulsar-list" <pulsar-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:34:58 AM
Subject: Re: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13
--> Pulsar-List message posted by: Bob Hartunian <bobh5(at)earthlink.net>
As I've mentioned several times previously, the stiffness is due to the CTE
differences between glass wing and aluminum ailerons. Commercial aircraft
use a sliding hinge arrangement to allow for the differences. You could
relieve the hinge fit up or lubricate it often to minimize the effect.
Bob H
| Quote: | From: Pulsar-List Digest Server <pulsar-list(at)matronics.com>
Reply-To: <pulsar-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 23:58:22 -0800
To: Pulsar-List Digest List <pulsar-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13
*
=========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=========================
Today's complete Pulsar-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Pulsar-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2
013-01-04&Archive=Pulsar
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=20
13-01-04&Archive=Pulsar
=======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Pulsar-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 01/04/13: 4
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:21 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Bill Landucci)
2. 09:30 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Petra Vomberg)
3. 09:56 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Larry Wheat)
4. 09:56 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Tom Gibbons)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 05:21:52 AM PST US
From: Bill Landucci <bill.landucci(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Stiff Aileron
I as well have noticed this. The good thing is that it didn't seem to
get any worse at extreme cold temps. I've registered -20F on several
flights, and on several occasions, not much warmer than that while doing
pre-flight control checks. Stiff, but still smooth and responsive - no
sticking.
The rudder, on the other hand, gets very 'sticky' when warm. Especially
on hot days during the flight or after landing. I think this is due to
the nylon bushings in the steel tubes of the rudder pedal assembly. The
rudder moves smoothly on it's hinges, but the pedal assembly sticks. In
the series III the water coolant lines (four 1" hoses) run under the
pedal assembly platform - providing some nice radiant heat.
Bill L
On Jan 3, 2013, at 7:42 PM, barrynorman(at)comcast.net wrote:
> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F
temps that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than
normal. After I landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong.
It appeared to have improved some on the ground with slightly higher
temps in the low 30s. After thinking about it today I looked up the
expansion/contraction rate of wood (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron)
and did a calculation on the length of the aileron and found the
difference was .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if that's enough to
create bind in the hinges due to the difference in installed temp and
the cold air I was flying in. When I think back to when I was testing
the plane 7 years ago in cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm
considering removing the ailerons and filing a little more clearance in
the tabs on the hinges to see if that helps the situation.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Barry
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 09:30:01 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Stiff Aileron
From: Petra Vomberg <pv.ds(at)t-online.de>
Barry,
On my Pulsar III, I also have stiff ailerons at below freezing temps. I
just used an oil on the hinges, the aileron control tube slider bushing, and
all ball joints thats good for low temps to help the situation.
Regards
Dan
Am 04.01.2013 2:42 Uhr schrieb "barrynorman(at)comcast.net" unter
<barrynorman(at)comcast.net>:
> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F temps
> that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than normal. After I
> landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong. It appeared to have
> improved some on the ground with slightly higher temps in the low 30s. After
> thinking about it today I looked up the expansion/contraction rate of wood
> (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron) and did a calculation on the length of the
> aileron and found the difference was .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if
> that's enough to create bind in the hinges due to the difference in installed
> temp and the cold air I was flying in. When I think back to when I was
> testing
> the plane 7 years ago in cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm considering
> removing the ailerons and filing a little more clearance in the tabs on the
> hinges to see if that helps the situation.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Barry
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 09:56:01 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Stiff Aileron
From: Larry Wheat <lwheat2083(at)gmail.com>
I experienced the same thing BUT my problem was the center stick. I
disconnected the ailerons and the stiffness remained leaving the joystick
as the culprit. I burnished and polished several times with crocus cloth
and polishing wheel. After 5-6 tries I finally got it to the right diameter
for a good fit. The perplexing thing is that it was normal for 50 hrs. All
of a sudden in 45 degree weather it stiffened up. Some food for thought.
Don't know if it is the aluminum (which should have contracted if anything)
or the micarta bearings. Anyway seems to be ok now. Some food for thought,
Cheers, Larry N852LW
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 5:42 PM, <barrynorman(at)comcast.net> wrote:
> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F
> temps that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than normal.
> After I landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong. It
> appeared to have improved some on the ground with slightly higher temps in
> the low 30s. After thinking about it today I looked up the
> expansion/contraction rate of wood (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron) and
> did a calculation on the length of the aileron and found the difference was
> .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if that's enough to create bind in
> the hinges due to the difference in installed temp and the cold air I was
> flying in. When I think back to when I was testing the plane 7 years ago in
> cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm considering removing the ailerons
> and filing a little more clearance in the tabs on the hinges to see if that
> helps the situation.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Barry
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Larry Wheat
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 09:56:49 AM PST US
From: "Tom Gibbons" <TomisFlyingby(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Stiff Aileron
Seems to me like a great question for Mr. Hartunian! Bob??
Always wondered about that up here in the REAL cold land!
Tom
From: barrynorman(at)comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 7:42 PM
Subject: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron
I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F
temps that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than
normal. After I landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong.
It appeared to have improved some on the ground with slightly higher
temps in the low 30s. After thinking about it today I looked up the
expansion/contraction rate of wood (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron)
and did a calculation on the length of the aileron and found the
difference was .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if that's enough to
create bind in the hinges due to the difference in installed temp and
the cold air I was flying in. When I think back to when I was testing
the plane 7 years ago in cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm
considering removing the ailerons and filing a little more clearance in
the tabs on the hinges to see if that helps the situation.
Any thoughts?
Barry
|
| | - The Matronics Pulsar-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List |
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