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Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

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jchang10

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:22 am Post subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NbEa6c8c35s/UPRK4Cj9qsI/AAAAAAAAFFM/ZrZKkxB2UJc/s972/screenshot-20130112-190652-787.bmp



I noticed on my last couple of flights with the colder winter temps, 

that my oil temp is riding on the lowest range around 160 to 165F in 

cruise. I normally target 180F, and in the summer oil temp can get up to 

210F on the hottest days. The above link shows a sample screenshot with 

OAT at 17F. I am trying to figure out some ways to increase the oil temp 

going forward.



I already have the oil cooler butterfly valve mounted on the back of the 

baffle. I have mine fully closed during the entire flight. When 

initially installed, fully closed meant about 90% closed. I thought the 

10% open would serve as a safety buffer in case of a failed cable. 

However, i changed it so it is now about 98% closed. However, the oil 

temp still hasn't risen.



Thus, i am wondering what my next best step is. At first i thought that 

the vernatherm blocked all oil flow to the cooler when cold, but 

according to some searching, i read that oil is always flowing thru the 

oil cooler. The vernatherm controls how much oil bypasses the cooler in 

parallel. If this is correct, then i guess it is worth it to get the oil 

cooler door to 100% closed?



It just seems more like my stock Lycoming vernatherm is adjusted too low 

for temps. Anybody replace their vernatherm for warmer temps?



Also, how do you guys in colder climates deal with these issues?



Thanks!

Jae



-- 

#40533 RV-10

First flight 10/19/2011

Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

do not archive

_________________
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:35 am Post subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

Sorry, I am not much help.  I use the butterfly (100%) and don't have a

problem getting it up to 180 on a 17 degree day.  When I am running normal,

my oil temp will go between 202 and 196.  I am assuming that is when the

vernatherm is cutting in and out.  But don't really know for sure.



Rene' Felker

N423CF

801-721-6080



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:36 am Post subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

You may want to check the Vernatherm...I flew a week ago at

between 10F and 20F max, and with the valve fully closed

I was able to hit 210 or so.



Tim

On 1/14/2013 1:21 PM, Jae Chang wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NbEa6c8c35s/UPRK4Cj9qsI/AAAAAAAAFFM/ZrZKkxB2UJc/s972/screenshot-20130112-190652-787.bmp

 I noticed on my last couple of flights with the colder winter temps,

 that my oil temp is riding on the lowest range around 160 to 165F in

 cruise. I normally target 180F, and in the summer oil temp can get up to

 210F on the hottest days. The above link shows a sample screenshot with

 OAT at 17F. I am trying to figure out some ways to increase the oil temp

 going forward.



 I already have the oil cooler butterfly valve mounted on the back of the

 baffle. I have mine fully closed during the entire flight. When

 initially installed, fully closed meant about 90% closed. I thought the

 10% open would serve as a safety buffer in case of a failed cable.

 However, i changed it so it is now about 98% closed. However, the oil

 temp still hasn't risen.



 Thus, i am wondering what my next best step is. At first i thought that

 the vernatherm blocked all oil flow to the cooler when cold, but

 according to some searching, i read that oil is always flowing thru the

 oil cooler. The vernatherm controls how much oil bypasses the cooler in

 parallel. If this is correct, then i guess it is worth it to get the oil

 cooler door to 100% closed?



 It just seems more like my stock Lycoming vernatherm is adjusted too low

 for temps. Anybody replace their vernatherm for warmer temps?



 Also, how do you guys in colder climates deal with these issues?



 Thanks!

 Jae

jchang10

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:04 pm Post subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

Hmm, my temps are way off then. Thanks for the datapoints!



Jae



On 1/14/2013 11:36 AM, Tim Olson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 You may want to check the Vernatherm...I flew a week ago at

 between 10F and 20F max, and with the valve fully closed

 I was able to hit 210 or so.



 Tim




	




-- 

#40533 RV-10

First flight 10/19/2011

Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

do not archive

_________________
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:05 pm Post subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

Jae, although that temp is on the low side, because of where the temp is measured, you may still be hot enough to burn off the condensation... and that's all that's necessary.

I also have a personally built butterfly valve, and can adjust it accordingly, and still can manage to get the temps in the 180's in the winter.

Might try to block some of the exit area of the oil cooler????



--- On Mon, 1/14/13, Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>

Subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, January 14, 2013, 11:21 AM



--> RV10-List message posted by: Jae Chang <[url=/mc/compose?to=jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com]jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com[/url]>



https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NbEa6c8c35s/UPRK4Cj9qsI/AAAAAAAAFFM/ZrZKkxB2UJc/s972/screenshot-20130112-190652-787.bmp



I noticed on my last couple of flights with the colder winter temps, that my oil temp is riding on the lowest range around 160 to 165F in cruise. I normally target 180F, and in the summer oil temp can get up to 210F on the hottest days. The above link shows a sample screenshot with OAT at 17F. I am trying to figure out some ways to increase the oil temp going forward.



I already have the oil cooler butterfly valve mounted on the back of the baffle. I have mine fully closed during the entire flight. When initially installed, fully  closed meant about 90% closed. I thought the 10% open would serve as a safety buffer in case of a failed cable. However, i changed it so it is now about 98% closed. However, the oil temp still hasn't risen.



Thus, i am wondering what my next best step is. At first i thought that the vernatherm blocked all oil flow to the cooler when cold, but according to some searching, i read that oil is always flowing thru the oil cooler. The vernatherm controls how much oil bypasses the cooler in parallel. If this is correct, then i guess it is worth it to get the oil cooler door to 100% closed?



It just seems more like my stock Lycoming vernatherm is adjusted too low for temps. Anybody replace their vernatherm for warmer temps?



Also, how do you guys in colder climates deal with these issues?



Thanks!

Jae



-- #40533 RV-10

First flight 10/19/2011

Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

do not archive    sp; --> http://=              - List Contribution Web Site -

_;                     &nbef="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.m======================





	
 [quote][b]

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:10 pm Post subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

Checking the Vernatherm is easy. Remove the Vernatherm and paint the 

cone all black with a Sharpie.  Go fly.  Remove the Vernatherm again and 

check for a silver ring on the cone .... caused by the cone closing up 

the hole in the accessory case.  No ring?  Get a new Vernatherm.

Linn



On 1/14/2013 2:36 PM, Tim Olson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 You may want to check the Vernatherm...I flew a week ago at

 between 10F and 20F max, and with the valve fully closed

 I was able to hit 210 or so.



 Tim

 On 1/14/2013 1:21 PM, Jae Chang wrote:

> 

>

> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NbEa6c8c35s/UPRK4Cj9qsI/AAAAAAAAFFM/ZrZKkxB2UJc/s972/screenshot-20130112-190652-787.bmp 

>

> I noticed on my last couple of flights with the colder winter temps,

> that my oil temp is riding on the lowest range around 160 to 165F in

> cruise. I normally target 180F, and in the summer oil temp can get up to

> 210F on the hottest days. The above link shows a sample screenshot with

> OAT at 17F. I am trying to figure out some ways to increase the oil temp

> going forward.

>

> I already have the oil cooler butterfly valve mounted on the back of the

> baffle. I have mine fully closed during the entire flight. When

> initially installed, fully closed meant about 90% closed. I thought the

> 10% open would serve as a safety buffer in case of a failed cable.

> However, i changed it so it is now about 98% closed. However, the oil

> temp still hasn't risen.

>

> Thus, i am wondering what my next best step is. At first i thought that

> the vernatherm blocked all oil flow to the cooler when cold, but

> according to some searching, i read that oil is always flowing thru the

> oil cooler. The vernatherm controls how much oil bypasses the cooler in

> parallel. If this is correct, then i guess it is worth it to get the oil

> cooler door to 100% closed?

>

> It just seems more like my stock Lycoming vernatherm is adjusted too low

> for temps. Anybody replace their vernatherm for warmer temps?

>

> Also, how do you guys in colder climates deal with these issues?

>

> Thanks!

> Jae

>



 -----

 No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:12 pm Post subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

Might it be a measurement error?

Linn

On 1/14/2013 3:04 PM, Jae Chang wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Hmm, my temps are way off then. Thanks for the datapoints!

 Jae

 On 1/14/2013 11:36 AM, Tim Olson wrote:

> 

>

> You may want to check the Vernatherm...I flew a week ago at

> between 10F and 20F max, and with the valve fully closed

> I was able to hit 210 or so.

>

> Tim

>

jchang10

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:37 pm Post subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

Thanks Don and Linn for all the suggestions.



On 1/14/2013 12:09 PM, Linn wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Checking the Vernatherm is easy. Remove the Vernatherm and paint the 

 cone all black with a Sharpie.  Go fly.  Remove the Vernatherm again 

 and check for a silver ring on the cone .... caused by the cone 

 closing up the hole in the accessory case.  No ring?  Get a new 

 Vernatherm.

 Linn


	


Linn, i think i am having the opposite problem, though. No ring in my 

case would be good, as it would mean higher oil temps.



I am just going by what ive read so far on these links. DanH has some 

great posts explaining vernatherms and oil pathways, etc.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=536959&postcount=12

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=45548



Also, from what ive read, it seems Vernatherms rarely fail, and if they 

do fail, they usually fail with oil temps too high.



Also, I realize i should clarify my question a bit more. I can 

definitely hit higher oil temps at lower altitudes or takeoff with 

enough power and thus heat.



On this particular flight, i climbed to 10,500 to 11,500 where power is 

down around 60% 20"x2300 rpm. I can see this sort of trend all level at 

11,500 ft:

at 30mins OT is 172

at 42mins OT is 170

at 43mins OT is 169

at 54mins OT is 165



all CHTs constant between 260F to 302F. Then i had a long 30 min descent 

where OT went down to 154F.



Thus, one question i have is whether there is enough power or heat being 

generated by the engine at these higher altitudes and low OATs to even 

sustain higher oil temperatures? Maybe a higher RPM setting or higher 

fuel flows would help raise temperatures? During the summer, i normally 

run LOP, but i did add fuel flow to a peak EGT setting to see if that 

made any difference. Not sure i noticed much of any.



Jae



-- 

#40533 RV-10

First flight 10/19/2011

Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

do not archive

_________________
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

Jim Berry

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Denver

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

Jae,



I flew 2 hours last week on a day at 20-25*F OAT. Mostly shooting approaches, so MAP was 12 - 17" much of the time. Oil temps were 180* plus/minus 5*. I would check your oil temp probe before getting into the vernatherm.



Jim Berry

N15JB

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:02 pm Post subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

I'm surprised you get 210 in the summer and can't get it above 165 in the 

winter with the butterfly valve.  I have the valve too and also hit around 

210 on hot summer days in climb out.  In the winter mine is around 165 if I 

don't use the valve.  If I close it it will come up fast and must be 

partially opened to maintain around 185.  It is very quick to respond to 

inputs on the valve.



---

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

aerosport1

Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 231

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:41 pm Post subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

Ditto Sean. I have had my valve on for  3 years and same results as Sean just posted.

It works really good. 



Geoff Combs

N829GW



Sent from my iPad



On Jan 14, 2013, at 10:01 PM, "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 I'm surprised you get 210 in the summer and can't get it above 165 in the winter with the butterfly valve.  I have the valve too and also hit around 210 on hot summer days in climb out.  In the winter mine is around 165 if I don't use the valve.  If I close it it will come up fast and must be partially opened to maintain around 185.  It is very quick to respond to inputs on the valve.

 

 

 

 ---

_________________
Geoff Combs
RV-10 QB N829GW
Flying 500 hrs
40033

Dick Sipp

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Hope, MI

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:11 pm Post subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

Ditto here too.  Have run the valve for 300 plus hours same results accept 

little problem staying below 190 with valve open in summer.



Dick Sipp

N110DV 450 hours



--

woxofswa

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

This thread reminded me of something.  Years ago (decades actually), I knew a mechanic who swore by running two quarts lower oil quantity as a baseline in winter than summer.  I never thought it completely through because I was just a renter in those days, but it might make a difference.

_________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:49 am Post subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

I just started doing that (running less oil) with some apparent 

success.  I haven't logged the numbers yet but my low temp warnings 

stopped during the last winter time flight.



Actually, I've done 2 things trying to bring the oil temps up into the 

165 to 200F range during cruise.  I have the problem in both summer and 

winter.



I don't have the cooling air valve.  So first, I fabricated a simple 

plate to block some cooling air going to the oil cooler. The plate is 

installed where the hose exits the plenum.  It's slotted so I can adjust 

it on the ground.  Blocking about 1/3rd of the flow, most but not all 

low temp alarms (i.e. <165F) were suppressed.



Then, during my last oil change, instead of putting in 9 Qts (to get 

8Qts on the dip stick), I put in 7 Qts.  During my last flight, I didn't 

get any low temp alarms.  I'm considering going to 6 next time.



My testing has not been all that rigorous.  I'm just trying to get to 

the point where I don't get any low temp or high temp alarms during 

cruise.  I figure that I will accept temps that fall slightly outside 

the 165-200 range during hot day climbs and low power descents.  As I 

understand it, the objective on the low side is to burn off moisture, 

and on the high side to indicate proper engine cooling and avoid oil 

breakdown - but I'm not sure at what temps the oil starts to breakdown.



Anyway, I think I'm where I want to be for the winter and I'll adjust as 

required when moving to the warmer months.



Bill



On 1/15/2013 1:53 AM, woxofswa wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 This thread reminded me of something.  Years ago (decades actually), I knew a mechanic who swore by running two quarts lower oil quantity as a baseline in winter than summer.  I never thought it completely through because I was just a renter in those days, but it might make a difference.



 --------

 Myron Nelson

 Mesa, AZ

 Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear.  Finishing kit and FWF kit in progress.

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:26 am Post subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

IIRC.... The Lycoming engines have their oil temperature sending units placed after the oil cooler, not in the sump. Where in my opinion, it belongs.. So , when you see 160 f as your oil temp, it is actually close to 200 in the bottom of the sump.  More then enough to boil off the moisture you guys are concerned with if your flight is 30 minutes or more. My .02 cents worth.......



Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



--------

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:48 am Post subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

Understood.  My presumption is that the       temperature ranges quoted in the O-540, IO-540 Series Operator's       Manual take the sending unit location into account.  The manual       states:

        	  Quote: 	
		  Oil Temperature:  The maximum permissible oil         temperature is 245F (118C).  For maximum engine life, desired         oil Temperature should be maintained between 165F (73.8C) and         200F(93.3C) in level flight cruise conditions

       	
       So I set my alarms (bar graph changes to red and a msg is       generated on the GRT)  at 165 and 200 with the understanding that       the actual temps are different throughout the oil system.

       

       The only unknown here is the accuracy of the sender.  I guess the       sender could be immersed in some heated oil and the reading       compared with a calibrated gauge of some sort.  I'll probably       never do it but I have had an oil temp sender fail already (reads       zero or very low).

        	  Quote: 	
		  

       	
       

       On 1/15/2013 10:24 AM, n801bh(at)netzero.com (n801bh(at)netzero.com) wrote:

     

     [quote]

       IIRC.... The Lycoming engines have their oil temperature sending       units placed after the oil cooler, not in the       sump. Where in my opinion, it belongs.. So , when you see 160 f as       your oil temp, it is actually close to 200 in the bottom of the       sump.  More then enough to boil off the moisture you guys are       concerned with if your flight is 30 minutes or more. My .02       cents worth.......

       

       Ben Haas

       N801BH

       www.haaspowerair.com

     [b]

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:28 am Post subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

On 1/15/2013 12:46 PM, Bill Watson       wrote:

       

       snip

      	  Quote: 	
		  

        The only unknown here is the         accuracy of the sender.  I guess the sender could be immersed in         some heated oil and the reading compared with a calibrated gauge         of some sort.

     	
     use boiling water .... 212 (at) sea level ........ or calculate the     boiling point here:  http://www.csgnetwork.com/h2oboilcalc.html

     Those single cup water heaters do an excellent job.

     Linn

     [quote]         I'll probably never do it but I         have had an oil temp sender fail already (reads zero or very         low).

          	  Quote: 	
		  

         	
         

         On 1/15/2013 10:24 AM, n801bh(at)netzero.com (n801bh(at)netzero.com) wrote:

       

        	  Quote: 	
		  

         IIRC.... The Lycoming engines have their oil temperature sending         units placed after the oil cooler, not in the         sump. Where in my opinion, it belongs.. So , when you see 160 f         as your oil temp, it is actually close to 200 in the bottom of         the sump.  More then enough to boil off the moisture you guys         are concerned with if your flight is 30 minutes or more. My .02         cents worth.......

         

         Ben Haas

         N801BH

         www.haaspowerair.com

       



om/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

s.com">http://forums.matronics.com

om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
       

No virus         found in this message.

         Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

         01/15/13     [b]

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:04 pm Post subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

Bill... I had a rather interesting discussion with a Lycoming rep at OSH a few years back on this exact topic..... I posed the question of " suppose a builder had a very efficient oil cooler and it removed 60 -70 F heat from the oil and the sending unit was positioned at the outflow of the cooler... Are Lycomings built to run with 300f+ degree oil...... He thought about it for a minute and told me the placement for the sending unit is based on  the airframe manufacturers choice and most all of them spec it to be on the discharge side of the oil cooler to mask improper breathing cowlings....  I thought that was strange as Lycoming warrenties cooked motors, not the plane maker.... He agreed it was a poor choice for the location of the sending unit...

 

The take home message is when you guys see oil temps of 245f on climb out you can bet the actual temp is pushing 300 degrees in the motor itself.... YUCK...



Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



--------

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:21 pm Post subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

I have factory oil temp on my Mooney where the oil enters the oil galleys, whether that is from the cooler or the bypass passage. I have an EI oil temp gauge plumbed in place of the oil galley plug at front of the engine. The difference between the two is in the resolution of the factory analog gauge. The oil cooler isn't that efficient, and so it runs 205-210 at average temps, and 215-220 on a hot day climb. I doubt the sump temp is that different, as the oil that goes to the heads cools as it drains through the external tubes back to the sump, and the rest of the oil drains internally in the crankcase, never exposed to cylinder head temps. The 245 redline is based on where the factory probe is placed and data Lyc has about temps elsewhere in the engine. If high temps are a concern, run the Shell or Exxon semi-synthetic that resists the heat better than mineral oil.

 

On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:01 PM, n801bh(at)netzero.com (n801bh(at)netzero.com) <n801bh(at)netzero.com (n801bh(at)netzero.com)> wrote:

 [quote]

Bill... I had a rather interesting discussion with a Lycoming rep at OSH a few years back on this exact topic..... I posed the question of " suppose a builder had a very efficient oil cooler and it removed 60 -70 F heat from the oil and the sending unit was positioned at the outflow of the cooler... Are Lycomings built to run with 300f+ degree oil...... He thought about it for a minute and told me the placement for the sending unit is based on  the airframe manufacturers choice and most all of them spec it to be on the discharge side of the oil cooler to mask improper breathing cowlings....  I thought that was strange as Lycoming warrenties cooked motors, not the plane maker.... He agreed it was a poor choice for the location of the sending unit...

  

The take home message is when you guys see oil temps of 245f on climb out you can bet the actual temp is pushing 300 degrees in the motor itself.... YUCK...



Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com 



--------

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:55 am Post subject: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps

I'm trying to wrap my head around this       and two things come to mind:

                245F is an extreme redline in the same way that the Lycoming           cylinder head redline of 500F or 435F continuous  is a bit           extreme for anything I'd want to run and maintain.  So I           generally wouldn't want to run at 245F whatever that actually           reflects (so when does engine oil start to break down?)

                  
It makes gut sense to me that the combination of the oil           cooler and all the various sources of heat in the engine would           combine to produce some sort of equilibrium temperature in the           circulating oil.  That is, while there would be differences           from point to point, they wouldn't directly reflect the           efficiency of the cooler or the contribution of given engine           component to the heating.  The location of the temp sender           would never quite be that critical as long as it's somewhere           in the system.  Kelly, I think that is reflective of your           experience with the Mooney.  

                       BTW, I'm currently scheduled for Lycoming engine school in a few       months.  It's some $$$ but I figure it's worth it for me since I'm       still not an engine guy and want to gain some confidence there.        Anyone here ever attended?

       

       Bill

       

       On 1/15/2013 7:19 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

     

     [quote]I have factory oil temp on my Mooney where the oil       enters the oil galleys, whether that is from the cooler or the       bypass passage. I have an EI oil temp gauge plumbed in place of       the oil galley plug at front of the engine. The difference between       the two is in the resolution of the factory analog gauge. The oil       cooler isn't that efficient, and so it runs 205-210 at average       temps, and 215-220 on a hot day climb. I doubt the sump temp is       that different, as the oil that goes to the heads cools as it       drains through the external tubes back to the sump, and the rest       of the oil drains internally in the crankcase, never exposed to       cylinder head temps. The 245 redline is based on where the factory       probe is placed and data Lyc has about temps elsewhere in the       engine. If high temps are a concern, run the Shell or Exxon       semi-synthetic that resists the heat better than mineral oil.

       

       On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:01 PM, n801bh(at)netzero.com (n801bh(at)netzero.com)         <n801bh(at)netzero.com (n801bh(at)netzero.com)>         wrote:

         [quote]           

Bill... I had a rather interesting discussion with a             Lycoming rep at OSH a few years back on this exact             topic..... I posed the question of " suppose a builder had a             very efficient oil cooler and it removed 60 -70 F heat from             the oil and the sending unit was positioned at the outflow             of the cooler... Are Lycomings built to run with 300f+             degree oil...... He thought about it for a minute and told             me the placement for the sending unit is based on  the             airframe manufacturers choice and most all of them spec it             to be on the discharge side of the oil cooler to             mask improper breathing cowlings....  I thought that was             strange as Lycoming warrenties cooked motors, not the plane             maker.... He agreed it was a poor choice for the location of             the sending unit...

                      

The take home message is when you guys see oil temps of             245f on climb out you can bet the actual temp is pushing 300             degrees in the motor itself.... YUCK...

             

             Ben Haas

             N801BH

             www.haaspowerair.com           

             

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