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Damping Grease

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Richard Wheelwright

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:51 am Post subject: Damping Grease

I hope you can help, I'm looking for a small amount of damping grease for the tri-gear nose wheel. Did anyone find a good suppler in the UK? 



Thank you in advance 

Richard.

_________________
Richard Wheelwright
G-IRPW
First Flight 24th July 2013

stephen vestuti

Joined: 05 Jul 2011
Posts: 62
Location: Wales, UK

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Damping Grease

Hi Richard,



Try:



Mr. Peter Wilks

Newgate Simms Ltd.

P.O. Box 32

Unit 6, Broughton Mills Rd.

Bretton, Chester CH4 0EJ

Tel: +44-124-466-0771

Fax: +44-124-466-1220

E-mail: peter(at)newgatesimms.co.uk

Website: newgatesimms.co.uk

They are the UK agents for the Nye Damping grease,



Steve.

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 390
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:29 am Post subject: Re: Damping Grease

http://www.newgateonline.com/application/damping-grease/pg-44a-50gram-jar.html



This link was sent to me by the Peter mentioned above, in reply to my email asking whether the grease is available in smaller quantities and his reply was in the affirmative.



You might also like to know of his excellent range of connector lubricants http://www.newgateonline.com/application/electronic-connector-lubricants.html

Richard Wheelwright

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:01 am Post subject: Re: Damping Grease

Thank you for the replies,

       I have managed to get a small tube from NewGateOnline. 



One again Thank You.

_________________
Richard Wheelwright
G-IRPW
First Flight 24th July 2013

wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:44 am Post subject: Damping Grease

Does anyone know where you get this in small quantities in the us?Will

Bogota

Mxp 740 xs 90% done (ha ha)



-------- Original message --------

From: Richard Wheelwright <rpwheelwright(at)yahoo.co.uk> 

Date:  

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

Subject: Europa-List: Re: Damping Grease 

 



--> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard Wheelwright" <rpwheelwright(at)yahoo.co.uk>



Thank you for the replies,

       I have managed to get a small tube from NewGateOnline. 



One again Thank You.



--------

Richard Wheelwright

G-IRPW

90% finished with that 90% to Finish





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394555#394555



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Kelvin Weston

Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 90
Location: Hampshire, UK

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Damping Grease

All



I am about to assemble my nose gear and shimmy damper and intend purchasing some of the damping grease from Newgateonline as recommended.



I can find no mention of this damping grease in any Europa documentation or indeed on the Europa Club website so I'm assuming it has come about from experience during operations.  I did find some old threads on this forum which provided some background to it's use.



However, before I rush out and purchase, I have a few questions:



Mod 59 installed an O ring to prevent grease getting onto the friction plate but am I right in thinking that this damping grease is used between the shimmy damper friction plate and the nose leg bearing housing?



Also, have owners used it to fill the fork spindle bearing housing via the grease nipple?



The build manual has no mention of the grease to use in the spindle housing, so I guess some general purpose Aeroshell No 5 would be OK?



Many thanks.

_________________
Regards

Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv@kdweston.co.uk

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:29 pm Post subject: Damping Grease

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Kelvin,

 I did not see an answer to your question,

 From my standpoint as an owner and tech support for Europa, I find the O  ring solution is marvelous.  My plastic disc stays quite clean, negating  the need for the sticky grease.

 However,   DO NOT USE THE GREASE DZERK FOR GREASING THE FORK  SPINDLE.  

 Reason for this is a grease gun (even a hand one) applies the grease under  strong pressure.  If you grease until the new grease comes out of the top,  rest assured it is blowing past the O ring also.  Grease on the plastic  plate of course eliminates the friction plates effectiveness as it is now  lubricated with slippery grease.  I use Aeroshell 22 for my spindle and  wheel bearings, but any HIGH VISCOSITY bearing grease is OK.  The spindle  sets in the housing with a spacer between brass bearings so only use a film of  grease on the shaft and put a small amount in the recess.  Do not pack it  full, as it isn't needed.  Make sure the seal and seat are clean and  reinstall.  This shaft doesn't turn that much, and frankly I am more  worried about corrosion in wet environments.

  

 Personally, I place some weight on my rear tie down/stab  tubes to hold the nose off the ground and I remove my nose gear fork  every annual inspection and apply a bit of grease, it also allows a proper  repack of the wheel bearings, as well as inspection of the fork, and the  shaft.  I clean my disk annually and at the 5 year point I install a new  one.  Check the pin is still secure.  Reassemble and set the steering  force for about 16-21 pounds of pull at the rear of the tire.  We use a  scale and a bit of safety wire loop to go from the axel bolt back around  the tire rear surface.  Then hook our scale up and pull.  Note there  are two frictions.  The first is the torque to break the friction, then  there is the rotational torque.  21 pounds for the breakout and no less  than going around is what I set the friction when new.  Then I adjust after  initial taxi tests.  On grass, 16 pounds breakout is about right for me,  but on asphalt on a warm day, you may encounter shimmy if you land and lower the  nose immediately.  (You can hold the nose off until 35 Knots quite easily,  and solve the shimmy problem unless your dampener is quite loose.)

  

 If you choose to use the sticky grease for the shaft as well as the shimmy  dampener plate, that is OK as the manufacturer of the grease insists it is a  lubricant also.  I ordered some grease from them a while ago and they  failed to ship to the US, so I am trying to acquire some from a retailer in a  small quantity for those clients that use or wanted such a grease.

  

 Best Regards,

 Bud Yerly

 Tech Support

 [quote]   ---

Kelvin Weston

Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 90
Location: Hampshire, UK

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Damping Grease

Thanks Bud



Good advice, as always.



I shall assemble the friction plate dry, without the damping grease initially and install the fork as you describe.

If shimmy becomes a problem in use, I can always add the damping grease later.



Thanks again.

_________________
Regards

Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv@kdweston.co.uk

ptag.dev(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:58 pm Post subject: Damping Grease

Hi! Kevin,

For my experiences:- If you have a trike wheel fairing you may not get to

experience two examples of wheel shimmy and still have a wheel fairing to

bother about! 

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG  337 



--

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 390
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Damping Grease

Hi Bud,



Neville Eyre recently did the really difficult work on my old monowheel G-EIKY and converted it to a trigear. I then towed it away to do the long list of tasks necessary before it can be inspected and signed off.



Today I proceeded to remove the nosewheel fork spindle and made sure that the spindle, bushes and friction plate were clean and dry before applying the Nye damping grease to all relevant surfaces, including both sides of the friction disk. The Nye grease is also lubricating the bushes.



Quote from your post above "Note there are two frictions. The first is the torque to break the friction, then there is the rotational torque." Well, if the damping grease gets applied to one side or both sides of the disk, then there is no longer a friction break-out torque.



Having tightened the assembly a lot and with the wheel off the ground, all I can discern is a constant 18 to 20 pounds resistance when pulling the nosewheel from side to side. There is no break-out. This being my first experience of setting up a Europa nosewheel, I would appreciate comments and advice from you or anyone else.



Comparing my Europa nosewheel with other aircraft of different types also having castoring nosewheels, mine seems excessively heavy to turn from side to side. Yes, I did tie a cable to the wheel axle and wrap it 90 degrees around the rear of the tyre before pulling with a spring scale.



Thanking you all in anticipation. Jonathan

pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:48 am Post subject: Damping Grease

Hi Jonathan,

Since the friction disc is pin located to the fork assembly it is pointless

applying the grease to the underside of the plastic disc.

The break out friction referred to is a feature of the speed of application

of movement.  Just applying a progressive load as in the 20 lb test will not

produce the break out effect that you are looking for. Speaking

scientifically, the friction torque generated by the grease is related to

velocity by a hysteresis curve.  Ie the greater the surface speed the

greater the friction torque produced.  

In fact the only way to demonstrate the result of applying the grease is to

fly the beast.

If you set the friction, as per the manual, then you will achieve exactly

the result you require.



Pete



--

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 390
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:32 am Post subject: Re: Damping Grease

Hello Pete,



I've received a text (SMS) from Nev this morning, also pointing out the non-necessity of applying anti-shimmy grease to both sides of the friction disk.



Seemingly once the assembly has been tightened sufficiently to remove the end float, it will be free to turn but won't turn quickly. It should be possible to push with a finger, again not quickly.



The proof of the pudding lies in the eating, so doing taxi trials and rechecking the nosewheel afterwards should give the desired result.



Thanks for the scientific insight into this matter. I'll now attempt to remove the incredibly sticky goo from one side of the disk and the fork.

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:06 am Post subject: Damping Grease

Don't think I would bother Jonathan. Leave the grease on and test it.

Graham

        From: jonathanmilbank <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Monday, 4 March 2013, 9:32

 Subject: Re: Damping Grease

--> Europa-List message posted by: "jonathanmilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk (jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk)>

Hello Pete,

I've received a text (SMS) from Nev this morning, also pointing out the non-necessity of applying anti-shimmy grease to both sides of the friction disk.

Seemingly once the assembly has been tightened sufficiently to remove the end float, it will be free to turn but won't turn quickly. It should be possible to push with a finger, again not quickly.

The proof of the pudding lies in the eating, so doing taxi trials and rechecking the nosewheel afterwards should give the desired result.

Thanks for the scientific insight into this matter. I'll now attempt to remove the incredibly  sticky goo from one side of the disk and the fork.

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" target="_blank">http://www. http://forums.msp;            - List Contribution Web Site -

_;                     &nb://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.c===================

 [quote][b]

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:39 pm Post subject: Damping Grease

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Jon,

 Glad to here you are progressing well.  

  

 I meant in my comments to apply the grease to both the disk (top side only  since there is a pin holding the disk immovable on the lower fork) and the flat  plate on the gear.  Apply the grease to both the plastic and the bearings  is OK.  As for our friction setting, it is a bit high in comparison to  the Yankee, or RV because our nose gear is at a shorter caster distance  like those annoying shopping cart wheels.  It is set this way to get the  proper nose to main spacing and not interfere with the prop and still be able to  be kept light.  I would say your current setting about 20 is fine. However,  if you lower the friction to 16 and bang down the nose at high speed (over  50Kts.) it will likely shimmy.   Hence the book says 21 pounds.   Set the torque near there and go test it.   

  

 As far as the breakout, Pete gave a great answer.  Once you let the  gear set a bit, it takes a bit more pull to get the gear moving than to go  around and around once it has started turning.

  

 It's time to get into the plane and taxi, test and fly.  

  

 Regards,

 Bud Yerly  

  

  

  

 [quote]   ---

christoph.both(at)acadiau
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:41 am Post subject: Damping Grease

Hello Europa Builders:

 I am in the process of having a friend designing my instrument panel for TRI gear (not cut version) with ASPIRE software.

  I wonder if any of you know where to find a high resolution electronic DXF/DWG file for me to download, or obtain as email attachment.

  Thank you very much.

 Christoph Both

 #223 Classic, Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada

 

 

 

    [quote][b]

carlp101

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 120

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:31 am Post subject: Re: Damping Grease

FYI. I have just ordered damping grease from the following link:



https://shop.newgatesimms.com/damping-grease/

carlp101

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 120

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Damping Grease

OK. I've tried the PG-44A from Newgate Simms. It's great. I put in on the upper face of the friction plate. Now I can easily steer my plane easily and I don't get the nose-wheel shimmy when landing. I'd thoroughly recommend it.



50g Â£22.50 + VAT



Newgate Simms Limited

Broughton Mills Road

Bretton, Chester

CH4 0BY

United Kingdom



Tel: +44(0)1244 660771

Email: shop(at)newgatesimms.com

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