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Kolb Mark III versus Rans S-12

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alienwes

Joined: 11 Dec 2012
Posts: 64
Location: Roswell, NM

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:20 pm Post subject: Kolb Mark III versus Rans S-12

Maybe I can get the forum talking with this question: Has anyone compared the Kolb Mark III and the Rans S-12?



Does the Rans S-12 fold as easily?



Has anyone flown both and how do they compare?



Wes

_________________
Wesley Elliott
Sport Pilot-PPC

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:59 pm Post subject: Kolb Mark III versus Rans S-12

Maybe I can get the forum talking with this question: Has anyone compared

the Kolb Mark III and the Rans S-12?



Does the Rans S-12 fold as easily?



Has anyone flown both and how do they compare?



Wes

 

Wes/Kolbers:



This is the Kolb Aircraft Builders and Flyers List.  We are much more

interested in building and flying Kolbs than other brands.



Kolbs have all the other brands beat hands down.



There is no comparison between a MKIII and an S-12.



The S-12 is not nearly as crash worthy as the Kolb, a very, very important

characteristic.  I've been told by some that they are not concerned about

crash worthiness because they are not going to crash.  Wish I knew that.

Since I don't, I'll stick with a good crash worthy Kolb.



I've never flown an S-12.  Don't know if they fold or not.  I do know the

S-12 fuselage doesn't hold a candle to the Kolb.  I have also seen several

S-12 that crashed.  They do not do well.



My own personal observations and opinions.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

yellowbird1

Joined: 01 Nov 2012
Posts: 88

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:10 pm Post subject: Kolb Mark III versus Rans S-12

The Rans12 wings do fold but the gas tanks are in the wings..



Sent from my iPad



Brad



On Jan 28, 2013, at 18:20, "alienwes" <elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Maybe I can get the forum talking with this question: Has anyone compared the Kolb Mark III and the Rans S-12?

 

 Does the Rans S-12 fold as easily?

 

 Has anyone flown both and how do they compare?

 

 Wes

 

 --------

 Wesley Elliott

 Sport Pilot-PPC

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393208#393208

_________________
Brad Nation,
Albuquerque, NM
MK3 Xtra

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:12 pm Post subject: Kolb Mark III versus Rans S-12

Wes --

I have owned both an S-12XL (about 2 years) and a Kolb MkIIIC (7 years)...  I currently own the Kolb.



The Kolb is sturdier in most every way, plus the wings fold easily, quickly and can be done alone.

 



My opinion only, of course, but I thought the S12XL actually flew a tiny bit better, was a tiny bit more fun, and I thoroughly enjoyed flying it, but the wings don't fold at all... they basically just have to be removed, which is a major operation, starting with draining the wing tanks... overall, it's doable, but generally speaking, you're talking several hours/half-a-day ~at best~ to remove, and then another several hours to put back together.  If wing folding is anywhere in your top 20 characteristics, then it's no contest.  You'd have to go with the Kolb.  

 



Despite my slight preference for the S12XL for flight characteristics, the differences are very small, and I very much enjoy flying the Kolb.  And, without a doubt, if I could choose which one to crash in, then it's again no contest... the S12XL will roll up in a little ball, and you with it.  I've seen it happen to others but, luckily, I've never experienced it.

 



If I had a hangar with room, I'd have both.  But I needed a plane with foldable wings, so the Kolb was the best option, IMO.

  -- Robert

 On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 7:20 PM, alienwes <elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com (elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "alienwes" <elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com (elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com)>

 

 Maybe I can get the forum talking with this question: Has anyone compared the Kolb Mark III and the Rans S-12?

 

 Does the Rans S-12 fold as easily?

 

 Has anyone flown both and how do they compare?

 

 Wes

 

 --------

 Wesley Elliott

 Sport Pilot-PPC

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393208#393208

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:25 pm Post subject: Kolb Mark III versus Rans S-12

I have flown both. Only my opinion but I would go with the Kolb. One fine 

day flying a S12, 2 up off a sealed runway, at the end of the runway the 12 

was at 500ft agl swapping to the Kolb we were at 1100ft at the same point. 

Both were 503 powered and at sea level . I would consider the S12 very under 

powered with a 503 and the Kolb acceptable with a 503 .  I also  prefer the 

third wheel to be at the back, I find the ground handling of the Kolb to be 

much better . In fairness I have flown the Kolb a lot more and would only 

have about 1 hr. in the S12 and over 200 in the Kolb. Out of the 9 or so 

aircraft types in my log book the only ones that come close to the Kolb 

would be the Piper cub or Aronca champ. A couple of the others were high 

performance so can not be fairly compared .



Regards

             Downunder

             Kolb Mk111



--

alienwes

Joined: 11 Dec 2012
Posts: 64
Location: Roswell, NM

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb Mark III versus Rans S-12

Thanks everyone for the posts! Very informative. I consider safety a big priority and I have read over and over about how solid the KOLB's are. Not that I plan on crashing one, but if I do. (Knock on Wood)

_________________
Wesley Elliott
Sport Pilot-PPC

beauford173(at)tampabay.r
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:37 pm Post subject: Kolb Mark III versus Rans S-12

Brother Elliott...



T'is mathematics...  count the number of spars in the wing....(3 for Kolb,

w/one central huge main spar, v.s. 2, one front one rear, for the Rans) and

the amount of 4130 chromoly

steel wrapped around yer arse...(a complete welded 4130 cage in the Kolb,

v.s. riveted aluminum tubes in the Rans).... and suddenly the math works

out.



i.e. ....   Would you rather be dropped from the third deck sitting in a

Reynolds-wrap hammock, or a Mosler steel safe...?



If you prefer not to be dropped at all, contact me off-list....  Am starting

an anti-447 working group...



Worth what ye paid fer it...



Do Not Archive



beauford

FF-076

Brandon FL


. I consider safety a big priority

Wesley Elliott

russk50(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:00 pm Post subject: Kolb Mark III versus Rans S-12

Brer Beauford --

I dont qualify to join your anti-447 movement, but if you're tallying votes, count me in.  I dont trust ANY 2-strokes to keep my frail but precious arse in the air. 

Which is why I put a VW on my  Gyrocopter. (50#heavier)

Which is why I never got it more than 5' off the ground .

Which is why I sold it.

Which is why I'm still alive, I think.

Dont go for being dropped, at all, at all.

Fair winds,

Russ



On Jan 29, 2013, at 7:36 PM, Beauford wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Brother Elliott...

 

 T'is mathematics...  count the number of spars in the wing....(3 for Kolb,

 w/one central huge main spar, v.s. 2, one front one rear, for the Rans) and

 the amount of 4130 chromoly

 steel wrapped around yer arse...(a complete welded 4130 cage in the Kolb,

 v.s. riveted aluminum tubes in the Rans).... and suddenly the math works

 out.

 

 i.e. ....   Would you rather be dropped from the third deck sitting in a

 Reynolds-wrap hammock, or a Mosler steel safe...?

 

 If you prefer not to be dropped at all, contact me off-list....  Am starting

 an anti-447 working group...

 

 Worth what ye paid fer it...

 

 Do Not Archive

 

 beauford

 FF-076

 Brandon FL

 

 

 

 . I consider safety a big priority

 Wesley Elliott

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:49 pm Post subject: Kolb Mark III versus Rans S-12

Beauford , Hi Im building av Firefly dont you fly one? I read that you are thinking about starting an anti 447 movement . I didnt know youwere unhappy with the 447

 

  

 Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly

 

 [quote]    

From: Beauford <beauford173(at)tampabay.rr.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:36 PM

Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Mark III versus Rans S-12

--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford " <beauford173(at)tampabay.rr.com (beauford173(at)tampabay.rr.com)>



Brother Elliott...



T'is mathematics...  count the number  of spars in the wing....(3 for Kolb,

w/one central huge main spar, v.s. 2, one front one rear, for the Rans) and

the amount of 4130 chromoly

steel wrapped around yer arse...(a complete welded 4130 cage in the Kolb,

v.s. riveted aluminum tubes in the Rans).... and suddenly the math works

out.



i.e. ....  Would you rather be dropped from the third deck sitting in a

Reynolds-wrap hammock, or a Mosler steel safe...?



If you prefer not to be dropped at all, contact me off-list....  Am starting

an anti-447 working group...



Worth what ye paid fer it..



Do Not Archive



beauford

FF-076

Brandon FL

--> Kolb-List message posted by: "alienwes" <elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com (elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com)>

. I consider safety a big priority

Wesley ========================

[b]

flykolb(at)pa.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:20 pm Post subject: Kolb Mark III versus Rans S-12

Beauford,



OK, but if you had your choice to not be dropped at all:  



What if .... when the engine quit, instead of dropping - you just stayed at

your existing elevation?  Wouldn't that be cool! You could get out and work

on the engine to try to get it restarted - you would have all the time you

wanted because you are staying where you are at until you get the engine

started.  



Just thinking about alternatives when I shouldn't be thinking.



Actually I might vote to maintain the current state of affairs.  I have

discovered that it is better being down here wishing I was up there, then

being up there and wishing I was down here.



Dennis   



If you prefer not to be dropped at all, contact me off-list....  Am starting

an anti-447 working group...



Worth what ye paid fer it...



Do Not Archive



beauford

FF-076

Brandon FL

beauford173(at)tampabay.r
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:08 am Post subject: Kolb Mark III versus Rans S-12

Dennis,

Sounds good, but I'm really afraid of heights...  and it might take a while

- it's a 447....

beauford

Do Not Archive



--

beauford173(at)tampabay.r
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:25 am Post subject: Kolb Mark III versus Rans S-12

Brother Davis,

I think you will be very happy with the way your Fly will handle…Mine is a ton of fun.   As for the 447, they are known in some

circles as being a tad cantankerous at times…but when alive, they put out a lot of power for their size and weight and make the

Fly a snappy performer.  I’m still considering the movement….   will advise. 

 

Good luck with your building.

 

beauford

FF-076

Brandon, FL

Confused by 47 years of matrimony

Do Not Archive

 

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris davis

Beauford , Hi Im building av Firefly dont you fly one? I read that you are thinking about starting an anti 447 movement . I didnt know youwere unhappy with the 447

 



Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly

[quote]



[b]

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:48 am Post subject: Kolb Mark III versus Rans S-12

BEAUFORD, Thanks for the comeback I was afraid I jumped into the middle of somthing . Now if 

I can find a 447 I can afford ! I have been considering every different type of power fro Wankel to electric

 but they are all too expensive so I guess a lowtime used 447 is my best bet? Chris



 

Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly



[quote]      

  From: Beauford <beauford173(at)tampabay.rr.com>

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:24 AM

 Subject: RE: Re: Kolb Mark III versus Rans S-12

  

 

 Brother Davis,

I think you will be very happy with the way your Fly will handleâ€¦Mine is a ton of fun.   As for the 447, they are known in some

circles as being a tad cantankerous at timesâ€¦but when alive, they put out a lot of power for their size and weight and make the

Fly a snappy performer.  Iâ€™m still considering the movementâ€¦.   will advise. 

  

Good luck with your building.

  

beauford

FF-076

Brandon, FL

Confused by 47 years of matrimony

Do Not  Archive

  

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris davis

Beauford , Hi Im building av Firefly dont you fly one? I read that you are thinking about starting an anti 447 movement . I didnt know youwere unhappy with the 447

 



Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly



 	  Quote: 	
		  



	




 

 

 [b]

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:06 am Post subject: Kolb Mark III versus Rans S-12

I am all ears!!!!  how do I do this???????



boyd young

do not archive



 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>

What if .... when the engine quit, instead of dropping - You could get out
	


and work on the engine to try to get it restarted - 



Dennis

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:00 pm Post subject: Kolb Mark III versus Rans S-12

I ran 3 different 447's without a hitch maintenance Is everything



Ellery Batchelder Jr.



--

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