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Cabin Top Grab Handle

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rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:22 am Post subject: Cabin Top Grab Handle

For those flying, do you think that fitting a grab handle to assist with the step up onto the wing is justified.  The Tobago doesn't have such a handle and it's easy enough to get up onto the wing.  The Cirrus SR-20 on the other hand is fitted with a grab handle which makes the step up onto the wing much easier.



For those who have fitted a grab handle either side of the cabin top, I would appreciate your thoughts and what type of handles and how you attached them please?



Pictures would be vey much appreciated please.



Warm regards



Patrick

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:49 am Post subject: Re: Cabin Top Grab Handle

Absolutely. I put handles on both sides, right under the rear windows. The object is to let the passenger grab it before they put their foot on the step. Exiting, I find it useful for me backing off the wing.

If you go to the aviation department at Home Depot, or Lowes, you can find them labeled as drawer pulls. Get the attractive 4" one.

John

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_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:10 am Post subject: Cabin Top Grab Handle

I believe a grab handle would be convenient, but I did not install one.  Several times passengers look for something to grab and basically they put their hand on the top and brace that way....



Do not archive



-Mike Kraus

RV-4 sold 

RV-10 flying 

KitFox SS7 Radial building 



On Feb 19, 2013, at 7:26 AM, Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 For those flying, do you think that fitting a grab handle to assist with the step up onto the wing is justified.  The Tobago doesn't have such a handle and it's easy enough to get up onto the wing.  The Cirrus SR-20 on the other hand is fitted with a grab handle which makes the step up onto the wing much easier.

 

 For those who have fitted a grab handle either side of the cabin top, I would appreciate your thoughts and what type of handles and how you attached them please?

 

 Pictures would be vey much appreciated please.

 

 Warm regards

 

 Patrick

robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:20 am Post subject: Cabin Top Grab Handle

I don't see the benefit of a handle. It's extra stuff with little upside. I tell PAX entering the PAX side of the -10 "Left Foot, Left Hand, Right Foot". That is left foot on the step, left hand on the very convenient to reach left aft (open) door sill and then right foot on the wing skid pad. Simple operation those flying (or building) have done a 1000 times w/o the need for a grab handle. When entering the pilots side my instructions are "Right Foot, Right Hand, Left Foot" on the wing skid pad. I have yet to have anyone need a handle to climb into the -10. The challenge is instructing them on how to properly slide into the Co-pilots seat. The rear seats are a snap to enter in the -10.



Robin



Sent from my iPad2. 



On Feb 19, 2013, at 4:26 AM, "Patrick Pulis" <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 For those flying, do you think that fitting a grab handle to assist with the step up onto the wing is justified.  The Tobago doesn't have such a handle and it's easy enough to get up onto the wing.  The Cirrus SR-20 on the other hand is fitted with a grab handle which makes the step up onto the wing much easier.

 

 For those who have fitted a grab handle either side of the cabin top, I would appreciate your thoughts and what type of handles and how you attached them please?

 

 Pictures would be vey much appreciated please.

 

 Warm regards

 

 Patrick

 

 

 

 

 

 -----

 No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:30 am Post subject: Cabin Top Grab Handle

On 2/19/2013 11:19 AM, Robin Marks wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I don't see the benefit of a handle.

Glad to hear that.  I don't want any extra drag.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		     The challenge is instructing them on how to properly slide into the Co-pilots seat. The rear seats are a snap to enter in the -10.

So what's the problem with the co-pilot's side?
	


Linn ..... long way from needin that info!!!

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Robin



 Sent from my iPad2.



 On Feb 19, 2013, at 4:26 AM, "Patrick Pulis" <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au> wrote:



> 

>

> For those flying, do you think that fitting a grab handle to assist with the step up onto the wing is justified.  The Tobago doesn't have such a handle and it's easy enough to get up onto the wing.  The Cirrus SR-20 on the other hand is fitted with a grab handle which makes the step up onto the wing much easier.

>

> For those who have fitted a grab handle either side of the cabin top, I would appreciate your thoughts and what type of handles and how you attached them please?

>

> Pictures would be vey much appreciated please.

>

> Warm regards

>

> Patrick

>

> -----

> No virus found in this message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

 -----

 No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Cabin Top Grab Handle

 	  Quote: 	
		  I have yet to have anyone need a handle to climb into the -10. 	




Try being in your 70s and 5'4"....



You need a handle

John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 455
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Cabin Top Grab Handle

I installed handles from the Home Depot Aviation Dept. as suggested earlier. I put mine above the rear window and just a bit aft of the center of the window. I had seen similar installations on other -10's as well as other types of airplanes. My older Bonanza had a similar handle. Sorry I don't have a pic available. I am glad I installed them. As John noted, they are especially helpful for shorter folks.

Robin is correct about trying to explain to people how to get into the front seat gracefully once up on the wing. That can be a challenge for some folks. As noted, getting into the back seat is very easy.

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:35 am Post subject: Cabin Top Grab Handle

I too have installed the Lowes version of the Home Depot aviation handle. It did not make any difference in flying and helps getting in and out. I put mine above the rear window and everybody that gets in uses it I guess because its there. 

        From: "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com>

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 11:17 AM

 Subject: Re: Cabin Top Grab Handle

 --> RV10-List message posted by: "dmaib(at)me.com (dmaib(at)me.com)" <dmaib(at)me.com (dmaib(at)me.com)>

I installed handles from the Home Depot Aviation Dept. as suggested earlier. I put mine above the rear window and just a bit aft of the center of the window. I had seen similar installations on other -10's as well as other types of airplanes. My older Bonanza had a similar handle. Sorry I don't have a pic available. I am glad I installed them. As John noted, they are especially helpful for shorter folks.

Robin is correct about trying to explain to people how to get into the front seat gracefully once up on the wing. That can be a challenge for some folks. As noted, getting into the back seat is very easy.

--------

David Maib

RV-10 #40559

Transition Trainer

New Smyrna Beach, FL

Read this topic online  here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394594#394594

Ed Godfrey

Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 47

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:59 am Post subject: Cabin Top Grab Handle

For those of you who have installed the handle, did you install     hardpoints to mount them to?

     

     Ed Godfrey

     40717

     

     On 2/19/2013 12:35 PM, Bruce Johnson       wrote:

     

     [quote]                I too have installed the Lowes version of the Home             Depot aviation handle. It did not make any difference in             flying and helps getting in and out. I put mine above the             rear window and everybody that gets in uses it I guess             because its there. 

         

         

                                                    From:                 "dmaib(at)me.com" (dmaib(at)me.com) <dmaib(at)me.com> (dmaib(at)me.com)

                 To:                 rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

                 Sent:                 Tuesday, February 19, 2013 11:17 AM

                 Subject:                 Re: Cabin Top Grab Handle

                

             

             --> RV10-List message posted by: "dmaib(at)me.com (dmaib(at)me.com)" <dmaib(at)me.com (dmaib(at)me.com)>

             

             I installed handles from the Home Depot Aviation Dept. as             suggested earlier. I put mine above the rear window and just             a bit aft of the center of the window. I had seen similar             installations on other -10's as well as other types of             airplanes. My older Bonanza had a similar handle. Sorry I             don't have a pic available. I am glad I installed them. As             John noted, they are especially helpful for shorter folks.

             Robin is correct about trying to explain to people how to             get into the front seat gracefully once up on the wing. That             can be a challenge for some folks. As noted, getting into             the back seat is very easy.

             

             --------

             David Maib

             RV-10 #40559

             Transition Trainer

             New Smyrna Beach, FL

             

             

             

             

             Read this topic online here:

             

             http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394594#394594

               

               

               

               

             

         

       

        	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

	
     [b]

rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:59 am Post subject: Cabin Top Grab Handle

John,



Do you have any pictures please.  No Lowes or Home Depot in South Australia mate, will have to match as close as possible to what is available locally.



Warm regards



Patrick



On 20/02/2013, at 12:19 AM, "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Absolutely. I put handles on both sides, right under the rear windows. The object is to let the passenger grab it before they put their foot on the step. Exiting, I find it useful for me backing off the wing.

 If you go to the aviation department at Home Depot, or Lowes, you can find them labeled as drawer pulls. Get the attractive 4" one.

 John

 

 --------

 #40572 Phase One complete and flying.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394563#394563

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/handle_498.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/handle_585.jpg

bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:00 pm Post subject: Cabin Top Grab Handle

I just drilled and put a fender washer inside the cabin.

        From: Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net>

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 11:58 AM

 Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Cabin Top Grab Handle

  

 

                     For those of you who have installed the handle, did you install     hardpoints to mount them to?

     

     Ed Godfrey

     40717

     

     On 2/19/2013 12:35 PM, Bruce Johnson       wrote:

     

     [quote]                I too have installed the Lowes version of the Home             Depot aviation handle. It did not make any difference in             flying and helps getting in and out. I put mine above the             rear window and everybody that gets in uses it I guess             because its there. 

         

         

                                                    From:                 "dmaib(at)me.com" (dmaib(at)me.com) <dmaib(at)me.com> (dmaib(at)me.com)

                 To:                 rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

                 Sent:                 Tuesday, February 19, 2013 11:17 AM

                 Subject:                 Re: Cabin Top Grab Handle

                

             

             --> RV10-List message posted by: "dmaib(at)me.com (dmaib(at)me.com)" <dmaib(at)me.com (dmaib(at)me.com)>

             

             I installed handles from the Home Depot Aviation Dept. as             suggested earlier. I put mine above the rear window and just             a bit aft of the center of the window. I had seen similar             installations on other -10's as well as other types of             airplanes. My older Bonanza had a similar handle. Sorry I             don't have a pic available. I am glad I installed them. As             John noted, they are especially helpful for shorter folks.

             Robin is correct about trying to explain to people how to             get into the front seat gracefully once up on the wing. That             can be a challenge for some folks. As noted, getting into             the back seat is very easy.

             

             --------

             David Maib

             RV-10 #40559

             Transition Trainer

             New Smyrna Beach, FL

             

             

             

             

             Read this topic online here:

             

             http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394594#394594  

               

               

               

               

             

          

       

        	  Quote: 	
		  



	
     [b]

Gordon Anderson

Joined: 16 Apr 2012
Posts: 41
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:33 pm Post subject: Cabin Top Grab Handle

Hey Patrick,

Try IKEA, even if they aren't that close they also do mail order.  They have a great range of door handles for drawers and wardrobes etc., the Attest and Tag look like the most appropriate.  Upside is that they use metric threads so you can have at least 4 screws on your plane sourced locally   

http://www.ikea.com/au/en/preindex.html

http://www.ikea.com/au/en/catalog/products/90176636/

http://www.ikea.com/au/en/catalog/products/10177036/

Cheers,

Gordon Anderson

41015 Switzerland

Do not archive

On Feb 19, 2013, at 9:04 PM, Patrick Pulis wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 John,

 Do you have any pictures please.  No Lowes or Home Depot in South Australia mate, will have to match as close as possible to what is available locally.

 Warm regards

 Patrick

 On 20/02/2013, at 12:19 AM, "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> wrote:

> 

> 

> Absolutely. I put handles on both sides, right under the rear windows. The object is to let the passenger grab it before they put their foot on the step. Exiting, I find it useful for me backing off the wing.

> If you go to the aviation department at Home Depot, or Lowes, you can find them labeled as drawer pulls. Get the attractive 4" one.

> John

> 

> --------

> #40572 Phase One complete and flying.

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394563#394563

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Attachments: 

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com//files/handle_498.jpg

> http://forums.matronics.com//files/handle_585.jpg

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

Mike Whisky

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 336
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: Cabin Top Grab Handle

That's how they are doing it at Aero centro Aeronaves in Brazil

Mike

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_________________
RV-10 builder (flying)
#511

robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:27 pm Post subject: Cabin Top Grab Handle

Lynn,

I have come to believe that items like that handle which I have already said I would not install probably have almost no effect on performance due to drag. A friend of ours places a large foam block on the ends of his bent belly antenna to protect his dog's eyes. He recently took a flight and returned to find the foam block was still on the antenna! That being said the best aero configuration for the handle is not the best usability orientation. I can see losing balance and having your fingers wedged in that thing and really hurting yourself.  Not to sound like a wuss but I don't see the need. Of course I am not 5'4" and 70 years old (and neither is Patrick or his kids). If I were 70 I would probably need a forklift! Note we have stuffed my 84 year old Mother-In-Law who is quite feeble in the back seat w/o a handle. It does take some assistance such as a somewhat inappropriate butt lift along the way but we do get it done.

As far as your question on the front seat entry you will figure it out on your own as you build. But since you asked. I tell all front seat PAX once they are on the wing to place their Left Heal on the Left Center of the Seat Ledge. My seat ledge like many others has nonskid tape to note the position. Then the most valuable information is to "Keep your Butt High" whereby I am asking them to keep standing up and move their butt to the head rest area. Grab onto the Center Post with their Left hand. Then take their Right foot/leg and slide into position. The rest will follow. Novices big mistake is they get their left leg in an start sitting down immediately leaving their right leg hanging out of the fuselage. While this can be quite comfortable it is definitely less aerodynamic. Pulling their right leg in requires great flexibility. The high butt technique works great for me... so to speak.



Good luck,

Robin



--

bill.peyton

Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Posts: 198
Location: St. Louis, MO

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:33 am Post subject: Re: Cabin Top Grab Handle

I have been flying without a handle up until last week.  My dad and I built this plane and he is 88.  (Yes he still is flying!)  He has a hard time getting in, so we purchased round handles that have #10 threads threaded in the base.  We obtained them from McMaster Carr. http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/119/2939/=lk6acz

 I wanted to make sure the screws would not bend or break, and the local hdw store handles were all smaller diameter #8 tapped holes.  I installed the handles above the rear windows.  I used fender washers under the nuts, and the handles came with a real nice dress washer for the front of the handle.  Sorry I don't have any photos.

Using Robin's method works great for getting up on the wing, unless you have a bad knee or are older.  In terms of actually getting in the cockpit, I saw a couple of big guys (at) OSH last year who had built a -10.  They were using the method of hanging on to the center brace to lower themselves into the seat.  Over time, center brace had pulled the 4 screws through the fiberglass from their weight.  My method of getting in is to put one foot on the inside surface directly in front of the seat next to the tunnel, and then put one hand on the door frame behind me and the other hand on the door frame in front and lower myself in.

_________________
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC

rv10flyer

Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:40 am Post subject: Re: Cabin Top Grab Handle

i installed drawer pulls above rear window and use them all the time. Use sticky back sandpaper stuck to cabin top to get exact match on drawer pull mount bases. I used #8 screws and std washers with no problems so far. The cabin top honeycomb in the brace attach area should be dug out and filled with flox to prevent pull through of csk screws/bushings.

_________________
Wayne G.

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: Cabin Top Grab Handle

No handle, but I do have a plastic two step stepstool. The top step goes over the aircraft step. It give passengers two steps, much wider steps, and a little closer to the wing so the step onto the wing is easier. My short legged passengers find it helps. Folds to fit thru the baggage door.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

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