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mid-door latch

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egp8111

Joined: 25 Mar 2010
Posts: 49

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:32 am Post subject: mid-door latch

Hello All,



My doors bulge in the middle leaving about a 1/4 gap.  Does anyone have any suggestions about how to cure this issue.  I've heard mention of a mid door latch.  Does anyone have a picture or a discription of one ?

Thanks,



E.G

96EG mono-wheel classic

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 796

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:54 am Post subject: mid-door latch

Hi E.G. 

 	"I've heard mention of a mid door latch. Does anyone have a picture or a discription of one ?" 

 	I followed Nev's advice and installed a passive mid door pin. Once I finally figured out what he was talking about, I also installed a passive pin to hold the top aft part of the door in place. The geometry really works, close the door, the top aft gets sucked down! 

 	I think they are detailed on page 2 and 3: 

 	http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=29082&g2_page=1 

 	  

 	Ron Parigoris 

 	  

 	 	> Thanks, 	> 	> E.G 	> 96EG mono-wheel classic 	> 	> 	> 	> 	> Read this topic online here: 	> 	> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395284#395284 	> 	> 	     [quote][b]

paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:18 pm Post subject: mid-door latch

If you look under November 2001 on my blog at http://www.europa.net.nz/363/index.html you will see the hard way of doing this .



 It works great but it as a pain to build.



  [quote][b]

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: mid-door latch

Hi All.

My passengers door also protrudes at the top rear corner, by at least a 1/4", This door has the gas strut bracket mounted on the top rear corner, and i think deformation is due to the  gas strut,

The Pilots door has the gas strut positioned in the middle of the door, this door has No protrusion at the corner and also stays up when open.

So some time i will have to move the gas strut to the middle as per other door,    can do this OK.

But how to bend the door back into shape will be a problem,

Have thought about using,( with the door open) a shaped piece of wood , slightly over curved at the top corner and trying to clamp it to the underside of the door, 

So when hangerd between flying, clamp it up, and hope over time it will ease back to shape, maybe a Little heat will help.

Any other options?

Regards

Alan

Remi Guerner

Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:09 am Post subject: Re: mid-door latch

Alan,

Once you have done the reverse strut mod, the rear corner of the door goes back into shape by itself after a few weeks. No further action necessary.

Remi

F-PGKL

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:29 am Post subject: Re: mid-door latch

Hi Remi.

The tails of at the moment and looks like i will not have it fixed before April.

So i needed a bit of good news, and will put it on my list.

Thanks Remi,

Regards 

Alan

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: mid-door latch

Hi All.

Been reading in the LAA magazin about Europa door departing the aircraft, very interesting contribution.

Way back in 2007 the previous owner of my aircraft, taxing with door unlocked then took off, the pilots door departed the aircraft went over the top and hit the starboard wing and aileron,  

Pilots often taxy on a hot summers day with the door open, some have installed warning devices on the Shoe Bolts, but has anyone designed a latch or stay to prevent it opening say less than 2".?

Today i applied grease to the shoe bolts and found the door was very very much better in closing, the only draw back is the grease around the housing if ever a repair was needed, but i did notice a great difference in closing, and much less strain on the actual door handle.

Its probably written down some where in the manual, but the forum jogs ones memory, and this only took a minute.  



Alan

john.heykoop(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:22 am Post subject: mid-door latch

Hi Alan



I agree that the article in the LAA magazine was very interesting. It would have been even better if it had highlighted the benefits of having a warning light that illuminates if one of the rear shoot bolts hasn't engaged properly. You can go further and have warning lights for all the shoot bolts, but it is really only the rear shoot bolts that are a problem. 



Having a warning light does not mean that you don't need to physically check that the doors are shut properly, but it does help to guard against the possibility that one day you may become distracted and fail to check properly. Or the hot day when you taxi with the door open and think you have shut it properly before takeoff but haven't. Making absolutely sure that the rear shoot bolts have engaged is well nigh impossible once you are strapped in.



So why not have a warning light for the rear shoot bolts? It is cheap, takes up very little space on the instrument panel, weighs next to nothing and is easy to install. I would urge anybody who is still building to make sure they install one.



Regards



John

G-JHKP

On 8 Mar 2013, at 23:50, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hi All.

 Been reading in the LAA magazin about Europa door departing the aircraft, very interesting contribution.

 Way back in 2007 the previous owner of my aircraft, taxing with door unlocked then took off, the pilots door departed the aircraft went over the top and hit the starboard wing and aileron,  

 Pilots often taxy on a hot summers day with the door open, some have installed warning devices on the Shoe Bolts, but has anyone designed a latch or stay to prevent it opening say less than 2".?

 Today i applied grease to the shoe bolts and found the door was very very much better in closing, the only draw back is the grease around the housing if ever a repair was needed, but i did notice a great difference in closing, and much less strain on the actual door handle.

 Its probably written down some where in the manual, but the forum jogs ones memory, and this only took a minute.  

 

 Alan

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395910#395910

Fred Klein

Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503

Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:54 am Post subject: mid-door latch

On Mar 9, 2013, at 11:21 AM, John Heykoop wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  So why not have a warning light for the rear shoot bolts? It is cheap, takes up very little space on the instrument panel, weighs next to nothing and is easy to install. I would urge anybody who is still building to make sure they install one.

	




Roger that John...many thanks to Raimo's excellent design and installation...

Fred, 

A-194...ready for final paint



 [quote][b]

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:36 am Post subject: mid-door latch

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Too true John.

 I have not been privy to the article on door departure.

 Could someone send me a copy via email to review?

  

 I'm afraid that in my career, I have seen many canopy losses and gear up  landings.  Bitching Betty annunciators, and warning lights doesn’t  prevent loss, a good old look at the latches and in lighter planes pushing on  the canopy does.  In the F-4, the Back Seater, read the checklist and  was listening for "Canopy closed, locked, warning light out, stripes aligned  (the mechanical locking indicator because the canopy weighed 275 pounds and you  really couldn't move it) then took off with his canopy mechanically unlocked but  the warning light out (misadjusted switch).  OOPs.  Trust me, if you  have one latch undone on the Europa (or Cherokee) door, if you push on the door,  it will crack open.  Make it a habit to push on both clamshell doors in  your safety check prior to takeoff, it works well, requires no power, wiring, or  crafty workmanship.  If you are not flexible enough to move easily to reach  to the aft end of the door, lean forward and push on the middle of the door (use  caution with ladies to whom you are not intimate with) and it still  works.  My concern is that it is not hard to add light switches or drill  the shoot bolt so the pin can be observed but it gets ignored unless the habits  are instilled in one's preflight operation.  Upholsterer's and painters can  screw up those warning systems unless you supervise them properly.  I have  seen many stall warning lights on at totally flying speeds and were ignored  because the builder just didn't have time to fix it, and I have been on the  runway when the canopy light was on because it was hot, the canopy quickly  closed and the takeoff roll started and aborted by me, the observer pilot,  because the pilot was preoccupied to get off the ground for traffic (he trusted  me, and it was my door).  Another was lost because the front pin was not  engaged and the warning light switch was installed only on the aft pin.   Only good habits, visual confirmation and honest checklist compliance  work for sure as familiarity breeds contempt.  We are creatures of  habit...  

  

 Regards,

 Bud Yerly

 [quote]   ---

max8992

Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 142

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:41 am Post subject: mid-door latch

I’m an experienced man ! not because I will reach 60 next July, not because I logged more than 650 hours for the last 25 years on 11 different GA planes… Just because a lot of “opportunities” happened to me during that time. Including two door departures on my Europa. Yes two: first because the rear shoot bolt guide felled at last opening and the rear shoot bold disengaged at first shakes during the following take-off. Second because I didn’t modify the latch cover which prevents the passenger to touch it with his elbow and it’s what happened when he tried to take out his pull-over (the mod was done since)…

None of these two cases whould have been avoided with any additional light on the panel (and you know Murphy’s low: the led would burn at he time it would be necessary to light). The only way to avoid these stupidities is to follow up good processes (check-list help) and be carrefull and attentioned to what you do!

BTW these principles didn’t prevented us to land with 5 Kt of back wind yesterday because we even hadn’t a look to the windsock coming back from a local flight engaged on the other orientation of the runway with an absolute no wind J

Take care!

 

Max  Cointe

mcointe(at)free.fr (mcointe(at)free.fr)

F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear

Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 450 hours

 

F-PLDJ Dyn’Aéro MCR 4S 

Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1550 heures



 

De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Bud Yerly

Envoyé : dimanche 10 mars 2013 18:36

À : europa-list(at)matronics.com

Objet : Re: Re: mid-door latch

 

Too true John.



I have not been privy to the article on door departure.



Could someone send me a copy via email to review?



 



I'm afraid that in my career, I have seen many canopy losses and gear up landings.  Bitching Betty annunciators, and warning lights doesn’t prevent loss, a good old look at the latches and in lighter planes pushing on the canopy does.  In the F-4, the Back Seater, read the checklist and was listening for "Canopy closed, locked, warning light out, stripes aligned (the mechanical locking indicator because the canopy weighed 275 pounds and you really couldn't move it) then took off with his canopy mechanically unlocked but the warning light out (misadjusted switch).  OOPs.  Trust me, if you have one latch undone on the Europa (or Cherokee) door, if you push on the door, it will crack open.  Make it a habit to push on both clamshell doors in your safety check prior to takeoff, it works well, requires no power, wiring, or crafty workmanship.  If you are not flexible enough to move easily to reach to the aft end of the door, lean forward and push on the middle of the door (use caution with ladies to whom you are not intimate with) and it still works.  My concern is that it is not hard to add light switches or drill the shoot bolt so the pin can be observed but it gets ignored unless the habits are instilled in one's preflight operation.  Upholsterer's and painters can screw up those warning systems unless you supervise them properly.  I have seen many stall warning lights on at totally flying speeds and were ignored because the builder just didn't have time to fix it, and I have been on the runway when the canopy light was on because it was hot, the canopy quickly closed and the takeoff roll started and aborted by me, the observer pilot, because the pilot was preoccupied to get off the ground for traffic (he trusted me, and it was my door).  Another was lost because the front pin was not engaged and the warning light switch was installed only on the aft pin.  Only good habits, visual confirmation and honest checklist compliance work for sure as familiarity breeds contempt.  We are creatures of habit...  



 



Regards,



Bud Yerly

[quote]

---

_________________
Max8992
Europa XS #560 F-PMLH

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