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rockiedog2

Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 19

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:55 am Post subject: Slats

Hi Ron

  

 I believe if you VERY CAREFULLY test the cruise  speed slats/no slats you will find a significant increase in speed.

  

 Best

 Joe Spencer

   [quote][b]

PTIPTON(at)sw.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:47 am Post subject: Slats

I really hate to get into this discussion, déjà vu all over again, but…  easier to land or take off?   I would not characterize it as easier, maybe more conventional without slats.  The 701 was designed for short take offs and landings.  Easy, I guess, is in the eye of the beholder (pilot).  I really like my unconventional  701 and that’s the very reason I have one.  To each his own. 

Paul Tipton 

321PT 

  

 This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the named individual. If you are not the named individual you are strictly prohibited from disseminating, distributing, or copying this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail  if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. The sender expressly reserves all privileges and confidentiality which might otherwise be waived as a result of an erroneous or misdirected transmission. E-mail transmission  cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this  message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. No employee or agent is authorized to conclude any binding agreement on behalf of Scott & White Healthcare or any affiliated entity with  another party by email without express written confirmation by the CEO or the Vice President of Supply Chain Services. Scott & White Healthcare www.sw.org    [quote][b]

ronlee

Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 141

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Slats

Yes the 701 is easier to land minus the slats and with vg's, here is why. Sure, the landing technique is more conventional. Is more conventional easier, yes. I liken a 701 with slats like a power boat on plane. When you pull the power on a boat and it is coming off plane it just slows down, like fast, and quits planing, (flying) sort of like a 701 with slats. When the nose gets high and the air starts flowing through the slat gap there is an instant high drag created.  With no slats and vg's you you don't get that, you get some float which gives one a bit more time to control the landing. I have flown my 701 many hours each way and like the vg's better because I get that bit of float instead of just plunking down. I will also add that I do enjoy flying it both ways. I am not trying to make as short a landing as may be necessary in some cases. Unlike some, I pull the power to an idle at the numbers add full flaps and rarely add any power to make the landing. Does it come down steep, you bet and you don't want to be high when you flare cause your flying speed deteriorates real fast on a light high drag airplane. Does it take some guts to wait till one is so close to the ground before flaring, yes.

I am not trying to convince anyone here that one way is better the the other technique as it all comes down to a matter of preference.

I would like to add that coming in behind the power curve as many do on a 701 can be disastrous if one should lose power at a critical point of the landing. Is it fun, sure, I do it occasionally just for that reason.

_________________
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona

JohnDRead(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:15 pm Post subject: Slats

Slats increase the lift coefficient of an airfoil by two. The slot does not  increase drag that is caused by the pitch angle. Read Abbott and von  Doenhoff for a correct dissertation on the subject. VG's just make a poor  airfoil work better they do NOT increase lift! The 701 is a very light plane and  so will always need a little power for a good landing.

  

 Regards,  John



CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300



Cell: 719-494-4567

Home:  303-648-3261   

  In a message dated 4/1/2013 1:58:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  rlee468(at)comcast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith701801-List message posted by: "ronlee"    <rlee468(at)comcast.net>



Yes the 701 is easier to land minus the    slats and with vg's, here is why. Sure, the landing technique is more    conventional. Is more conventional easier, yes. I liken a 701 with slats like    a power boat on plane. When you pull the power on a boat and it is coming off    plane it just slows down, like fast, and quits planing, (flying) sort of like    a 701 with slats. When the nose gets high and the air starts flowing through    the slat gap there is an instant high drag created.  With no slats and    vg's you you don't get that, you get some float which gives one a bit more    time to control the landing. I have flown my 701 many hours each way and like    the vg's better because I get that bit of float instead of just plunking down.    I will also add that I do enjoy flying it both ways. I am not trying to make    as short a landing as may be necessary in some cases. Unlike some, I pull the    power to an idle at the numbers add full flaps and rarely add any power to    make the landing. Does it come down!

  steep, you bet and you don't    want to be high when you flare cause your flying speed deteriorates real fast    on a light high drag airplane. Does it take some guts to wait till one is so    close to the ground before flaring, yes.

I am not trying to convince anyone    here that one way is better the the other technique as it all comes down to a    matter of preference.

I would like to add that coming in behind the power    curve as many do on a 701 can be disastrous if one should lose power at a    critical point of the landing. Is it fun, sure, I do it occasionally just for    that reason.



--------

Ron Lee

Tucson,    Arizona





Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397557#397557

	




 [quote][b]

pdelano(at)telus.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:56 am Post subject: Slats

Global Warming? Slats or VG's?Extraterrestrial Life?Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.

From:  JohnDRead(at)aol.com 

Sender:  owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com 

Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 21:13:33 -0400 (EDT)

To: <zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com>

ReplyTo:  zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Slats

 Slats increase the lift coefficient of an airfoil by two. The slot doe= s not=20 increase drag that is caused by the pitch angle. Read Abbott and von= =20 Doenhoff for a correct dissertation on the subject. VG's just make a poor= =20 airfoil work better they do NOT increase lift! The 701 is a very light plan= e and=20 so will always need a little power for a good landing.

 Regards,=20 John

CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300

Cell: 719-494-4567

Hom= e:=20 303-648-3261=20  

  In a message dated 4/1/2013 1:58:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,=20 rlee468(at)comcast.net writes:

 = -->=20   Zenith701801-List message posted by: "ronlee"=20   <rlee468(at)comcast.net>

Yes the 701 is easier to land minus th= e=20   slats and with vg's, here is why. Sure, the landing technique is more=20   conventional. Is more conventional easier, yes. I liken a 701 with slats = like=20   a power boat on plane. When you pull the power on a boat and it is coming=  off=20   plane it just slows down, like fast, and quits planing, (flying) sort of = like=20   a 701 with slats. When the nose gets high and the air starts flowing thro= ugh=20   the slat gap there is an instant high drag created.  With no slats a= nd=20   vg's you you don't get that, you get some float which gives one a bit mor= e=20   time to control the landing. I have flown my 701 many hours each way and = like=20   the vg's better because I get that bit of float instead of just plunking = down.=20   I will also add that I do enjoy flying it both ways. I am not trying to m= ake=20   as short a landing as may be necessary in some cases. Unlike some, I pull=  the=20   power to an idle at the numbers add full flaps and rarely add any power t= o=20   make the landing. Does it come down!

  steep, you bet and you don= 't=20   want to be high when you flare cause your flying speed deteriorates real = fast=20   on a light high drag airplane. Does it take some guts to wait till one is=  so=20   close to the ground before flaring, yes.

I am not trying to convince a= nyone=20   here that one way is better the the other technique as it all comes down = to a=20   matter of preference.

I would like to add that coming in behind the po= wer=20   curve as many do on a 701 can be disastrous if one should lose power at a= =20   critical point of the landing. Is it fun, sure, I do it occasionally just=  for=20   that reason.

--------

Ron Lee

Tucson,=20   Arizona

Read this topic online=20   here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D397557#397557<= sp;=20 =3D Use=20 ilities=20 ay=20                - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS=20              - List Contribution Web Site=20 p;  =20                       &nb= sp;=20 

[/quote]

 [quote][b]

ronlee

Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 141

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Slats

Come land with me in my 701 and you will see that it is a rare landing that I don't have the throttle at dead idle and full flaps from the numbers on downwind to touchdown, slats or no slats. The only time I have to add power at all is if there is a strong wind coming down the runway, and then it is my fault because I didn't compensate for it by turning base soon enough. If my engine quits at the numbers I want to be able to make it to the threshold of the runway.

_________________
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona

Dan Wilde

Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 34

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:38 pm Post subject: Slats

On 4/2/2013 11:06 AM, ronlee wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Come land with me in my 701 and you will see that it is a rare landing that I don't have the throttle at dead idle and full flaps from the numbers on downwind to touchdown, slats or no slats. The only time I have to add power at all is if there is a strong wind coming down the runway, and then it is my fault because I didn't compensate for it by turning base soon enough. If my engine quits at the numbers I want to be able to make it to the threshold of the runway.



 --------

 Ron Lee

 Tucson, Arizona





I agree with you Ron.  I almost never land with power above idle and I 
	


have full flaps on final.  This is with the slats.



Dan Wilde

frank goodnight

Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 126

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:39 am Post subject: Slats

Dan,

I  am a brand new 701 pilot (    10 hrs   )  It may be helpful if you would tell me at 

what altitude you like to be when you cross the numbers downwind and pull the

power to idle and what airspeed you like to hold from there to touchdown.

When I try that (at) 50 mph , flaps or no flaps , seems like the airplane just about falls straight

down. I chicken out at various alt and drag it in with power because I can't believe 

I have enough energy left to flair. Airplane is a stock 701 with 100 hp rotax.

 I normally fly a kolb firestar , 300+ hrs so i'm used to a light dragy plane that runs out of

energy at touchdown. In all other respects the 701 gives me no problem. I would really like to learn to use it in a way that I don't have to drag it in unless i want to.

Thanks for any thoughts you ( or others) may have.

Frank

Fayetteville, AR

From: Dan Wilde <stolpilot.wilde(at)gmail.com>

To:  zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tue, April 2, 2It 013 5:38:37 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Slats



 --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: Dan Wilde <stolpilot.wilde(at)gmail.com (stolpilot.wilde(at)gmail.com)>



On 4/2/2013 11:06 AM, ronlee wrote:

[quote] --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "ronlee" <rlee468(at)comcast.net (rlee468(at)comcast.net)>



 Come land with me in my 701 and you will see that it is a rare landing that I don't have the throttle at dead idle and full flaps from the numbers on downwind to touchdown, slats or no slats. The only time I have to add power at all is if there is a strong wind coming down the runway, and then it is my fault because I didn't compensate for it by turning base soon enough. If my engine quits at the numbers I want to be able to make it to the threshold of the runway.



 --------

 Ron Lee

 Tucson,   

  	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

Dan Wilde

Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 34

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:00 am Post subject: Slats

On 4/3/2013 7:38 AM, frank goodnight       wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                         Dan,

         I  am a brand new 701 pilot (    10 hrs   )  It may be           helpful if you would tell me at 

         what altitude you like to be when you cross the numbers           downwind and pull the

         power to idle and what airspeed you like to hold from there           to touchdown.

         

         

         When I try that (at) 50 mph , flaps or no flaps , seems like           the airplane just about falls straight

         down. I chicken out at various alt           and drag it in with power because I can't believe 

         I have enough energy left to flair.           Airplane is a stock 701 with 100 hp rotax.

          I normally fly a kolb firestar ,           300+ hrs so i'm used to a light dragy plane that runs out of

         energy at touchdown. In all other           respects the 701 gives me no problem. I would really like to           learn to use it in a way that I don't have to drag it in           unless i want to.

         Thanks for any thoughts you ( or           others) may have.

         Frank

         Fayetteville, AR

                          

           

         

       

     	
     Frank:  At my home runway (900 feet with 50 foot trees on the North     end), I have to clear 20 foot trees(South end) before landing.  Just     before the edge of the trees I try to be at 50 mph with full     flaps.   When I chop the power at just before the tree line, I stop     looking at the airspeed but I do lower the nose for a little bit to     insure sufficient speed for flaring.   With my wife along, she says     the airspeed indicator reads about 35 when we touch.   I have been a     little slow a time or two and ended up doing a three point landing.      

     

     When I cut power, I have to be at the tree line because the plane     will immediately slow and drop like a rock.  I have tickled the tree     tops a couple of times so now I try to be at least 5 feet over them     before cutting power.  If I did not lower the nose at the same time     I cut power, I would likely not have sufficient speed to properly     flair.  Air movement above the tree line and below the tree line can     be different.  Even just a couple miles per hour can make a     difference with the slow speeds we fly.

     

     This works for me.  Your mileage may vary.

     

     Dan Wilde

      [quote][b]

frank goodnight

Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 126

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:34 am Post subject: Slats

Thanks Dan.

Frank

do not archive



From: Dan Wilde <stolpilot.wilde(at)gmail.com>

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, April 3, 2013 12:00:25 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Slats



                     On 4/3/2013 7:38 AM, frank goodnight       wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                         Dan,

         I  am a brand new 701 pilot (    10 hrs   )  It may be           helpful if you would tell me at 

         what altitude you like to be when you cross the numbers           downwind and pull the

         power to idle and what airspeed you like to hold from there           to touchdown.

         

         

         When I try that (at) 50 mph , flaps or no flaps , seems like           the airplane just about falls straight

         down. I chicken out at various alt           and drag it in with power because I can't believe 

         I have enough energy left to flair.           Airplane is a stock 701 with 100 hp rotax.

          I normally fly a kolb firestar ,           300+ hrs so i'm used to a light dragy plane that runs out of

         energy at touchdown. In all other           respects the 701 gives me no problem. I would really like to           learn to use it in a way that I don't have to drag it in           unless i want to.

         Thanks for any thoughts you ( or           others) may have.

         Frank

         Fayetteville, AR

                          

           

         

       

     	
     Frank:  At my home runway (900 feet with 50 foot trees on the North     end), I have to clear 20 foot trees(South end) before landing.  Just     before the edge of the trees I try to be at 50 mph with full     flaps.   When I chop the power at just before the tree line, I stop     looking at the airspeed but I do lower the nose for a little bit to     insure sufficient speed for flaring.   With my wife along, she says     the airspeed indicator reads about 35 when we touch.   I have been a     little slow a time or two and ended up doing a three point landing.      

     

     When I cut power, I have to be at the tree line because the plane     will immediately slow and drop like a rock.  I have tickled the tree     tops a couple of times so now I try to be at least 5 feet over them     before cutting power.  If I did not lower the nose at the same time     I cut power, I would likely not have sufficient speed to properly     flair.  Air movement above the tree line and below the tree line can     be different.  Even just a couple miles per hour can make a     difference with the slow speeds we fly.

     

     This works for me.  Your mileage may vary.

     

     Dan Wilde

       	  Quote: 	
		  

	


   

 [quote][b]

ronlee

Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 141

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Slats

The answer to the question about how to land a 701 with slats or with no slats and VG's with no power is. One just has to be close enough to the runway, pattern altitude (1000 feet above runway) and turn base quite quickly.I do a military numbers to final (a steady 180). Of course keep the nose down enough to maintain flying airspeed, I keep it about 60mph. Don't try to flair from very high as it will slow very quickly and drop in. I takes some guts to not flair too soon as it has to maintain flying speed to near touch down. Don't mush it in as there will not be enough speed, inertia, to do a flair. 

One thing I have never mentioned before is that the angle of attack in level flight at 10000 feet is much less with vg's then with slats. I have no idea why.

_________________
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona

frank goodnight

Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 126

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:28 pm Post subject: Slats

Thanks Ron,

Frank 

do not archive



From: ronlee <rlee468(at)comcast.net>

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thu, April 4, 2013 11:30:08 AM

Subject: Re: Slats



 --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "ronlee" <rlee468(at)comcast.net (rlee468(at)comcast.net)>



The answer to the question about how to land a 701 with slats or with no slats and VG's with no power is. One just has to be close enough to the runway, pattern altitude (1000 feet above runway) and turn base quite quickly.I do a military numbers to final (a steady 180). Of course keep the nose down enough to maintain flying airspeed, I keep it about 60mph. Don't try to flair from very high as it will slow very quickly and drop in. I takes some guts to not flair too soon as it has to maintain flying speed to near touch down. Don't mush it in as there will not be enough speed, inertia, to do a flair. 

One thing I have never mentioned before is that the angle of attack in level flight at 10000 feet is much less with vg's then with slats. I have no idea why.



--------

Ron   

 [quote][b]

ejessee

Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 60
Location: Raleigh, NC

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Slats

I have read as many "slats" posts as I can find and I don't think this is addressed.  Please do not scold me if it is.



I am considering removing my slats.  I may not even add VG's.. not now anyway.  I use my 701 for cruising and really never need short take-off or landing.   All of the explanations I have read about the 701 without slats sounds like an improvement for the plane AS I USE IT.



My question is.. what is Chris Heinz and Zenith's policy on removing slats?  Can I tell my insurance company that this is an "approved modification"?  If I cannot, then I am sure my insurance immediately becomes useless once I take them off.  Still expensive... but useless.



regards

_________________
Ernest Jessee
N4931M

john.marzulli(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:47 pm Post subject: Slats

I can't remember the combination removed slats and no VGs being discussed here....



That said, I do not think the speed penalty of the VGs is very high.

Vno is listed as 90MPH, Vne is 110MPH.

 



With slats I get 85MPH cruise, so you can not go too much faster in the first place.



John Marzulli



http://MarzulliPhoto.net/

 http://701Builder.blogspot.com/

 



On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 12:28 PM, ejessee <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com (eejessee(at)us.ibm.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "ejessee" <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com (eejessee(at)us.ibm.com)>

 

 I have read as many "slats" posts as I can find and I don't think this is addressed.  Please do not scold me if it is.

 

 I am considering removing my slats.  I may not even add VG's.. not now anyway.  I use my 701 for cruising and really never need short take-off or landing.   All of the explanations I have read about the 701 without slats sounds like an improvement for the plane AS I USE IT.

  

 My question is.. what is Chris Heinz and Zenith's policy on removing slats?  Can I tell my insurance company that this is an "approved modification"?  If I cannot, then I am sure my insurance immediately becomes useless once I take them off.  Still expensive... but useless.

  

 regards

 

 --------

 Ernest Jessee

 N4931M

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398748#398748

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 [b]

dougsnash

Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:20 pm Post subject: Slats

it's been done before and did not have very good take off performance.  The VGs really do work well to return much of the traditional take off performance and don't have as much drag as the slats.

 

Ouch, I'm starting to sound like a convert.

 

Nope.  There I have the urge to remove my slats back under control.

 

Doug M

A scratch build 701 happily cruising around Northwestern Ontario with a set of slats.

 

     

   From: John Marzulli <john.marzulli(at)gmail.com>

 To: "zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com" <zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com> 

 Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 3:46:22 PM

 Subject: Re: Re: Slats

  

 

I can't remember the combination removed slats and no VGs being discussed here....



That said, I do not think the speed penalty of the VGs is very high.

Vno is listed as 90MPH, Vne is 110MPH.

 



With slats I get 85MPH cruise, so you can not go too much faster in the first place.



John Marzulli



http://MarzulliPhoto.net/

 http://701Builder.blogspot.com/

 



On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 12:28 PM, ejessee <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com (eejessee(at)us.ibm.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "ejessee" <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com (eejessee(at)us.ibm.com)>

 

 I have read as many "slats" posts as I can find and I don't think this is addressed.  Please do not scold me if it is.

 

 I am considering removing my slats.  I may not even add VG's.. not now anyway.  I use my 701 for cruising and really never need short take-off or landing.   All of the explanations I have read about the 701 without slats sounds like an improvement for the plane AS I USE IT.

  

 My question is.. what is Chris Heinz and Zenith's policy on removing slats?  Can I tell my insurance company that this is an "approved modification"?  If I cannot, then I am sure my insurance immediately becomes useless once I take them off.  Still expensive... but useless.

  

 regards

 

 --------

 Ernest Jessee

 N4931M

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398748#398748

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List

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 ===========

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 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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 [quote][b]

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:19 pm Post subject: Slats

Personally... If it were me, I would get some of that 12" wide clear heli tape and wrap the slats to cover the space between the slats and the wing.. That way you preserve the leading edge profile since the slat leading edge is different then the blunt wing profile.. You also gain the added wing surface area with the slats included and not alter the W&B calcs.... Theoretically the plane should fly faster and lift more.... But who knows the truth..YMMV. 

do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com





Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



       On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 12:28 PM, ejessee <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com (eejessee(at)us.ibm.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "ejessee" <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com (eejessee(at)us.ibm.com)>



I have read as many "slats" posts as I can find and I don't think this is addressed.  Please do not scold me if it is.



I am considering removing my slats.  I may not even add VG's.. not now anyway.  I use my 701 for cruising and really never need short take-off or landing.   All of the explanations I have read about the 701 without slats sounds like an improvement for the plane AS I USE IT.



My question is.. what is Chris Heinz and Zenith's policy on removing slats?  Can I tell my insurance company that this is an "approved modification"?  If I cannot, then I am sure my insurance immediately becomes useless once I take them off.  Still expensive... but useless.



regards



--------

Ernest Jessee

N4931M





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398748#398748



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____________________________________________________________

Unusual Sleep Trick

Scientists in Boston have revealed a natural sleep formula that would have everyone talking. Try it tonight.

peaklife.com [quote][b]

randy(at)rjhebertassoc.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:51 pm Post subject: Slats

Go to Zenith's Website and you will find his comments.  While he does not

"condem" the practice, he does state that "Performance will be reduced" .

I, like you, do not plan on using the extreme stol features and I have

removed mine but haven't started to fly it yet.  Time will tell.

Randall J. Hebert

Plans Building N7701P






I have read as many "slats" posts as I can find and I don't think this is

addressed.  Please do not scold me if it is.



I am considering removing my slats.  I may not even add VG's.. not now

anyway.  I use my 701 for cruising and really never need short take-off or

landing.   All of the explanations I have read about the 701 without slats

sounds like an improvement for the plane AS I USE IT.



My question is.. what is Chris Heinz and Zenith's policy on removing slats?

Can I tell my insurance company that this is an "approved modification"?  If

I cannot, then I am sure my insurance immediately becomes useless once I

take them off.  Still expensive... but useless.



regards



--------

Ernest Jessee

N4931M





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398748#398748

klondike(at)megalink.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:01 pm Post subject: Slats

Why not take  the "improved" 601XL wing and put it on a 701/750?????  I 

think it would be a nice flying machine.   I mentioned this to R.  a  long 

time ago, he didn't want to say to much------ WHICH I UNDERSTAND 

WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!



---

dougsnash

Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:24 pm Post subject: Slats

Ben, I seem to recall this was essentially tried too with less than stellar performance gains.  Recall my theory that the 701 without slats essentially has a smaller wing and this is where the increase in speed comes from.  Blocking the slot opening would eliminate the high angle gain without the reduced wing area to improve cruise.

 

Again, I'm just remembering previous conversations so take what I am saying with a grain of salt.

 

Doug M

701 from scratch

NW Ontario, Canada

      

   From: Ben <n801bh(at)netzero.com>

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 6:17:20 PM

 Subject: Re: Re: Slats

  

 

Personally... If it were me, I would get some of that 12" wide clear heli tape and wrap the slats to cover the space between the slats and the wing.. That way you preserve the leading edge profile since the slat leading edge is different then the blunt wing profile.. You also gain the added wing surface area  with the slats included and not alter the W&B calcs.... Theoretically the plane should fly faster and lift more.... But who knows the truth..YMMV.

 do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com





Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com

       On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 12:28 PM, ejessee <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com (eejessee(at)us.ibm.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "ejessee" <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com (eejessee(at)us.ibm.com)>



I have read as many "slats" posts as I can find and I don't think this is addressed.  Please do not scold me if it is.



I am considering removing my slats.  I may not even add VG's.. not now anyway.  I use my 701 for cruising and really never need short take-off or landing.   All of the explanations I have read about the 701 without slats sounds like an improvement for the plane AS I USE IT.



My question is.. what is Chris Heinz and Zenith's policy on removing slats?  Can I tell my insurance company that this is an "approved modification"?   If I cannot, then I am sure my insurance immediately becomes useless once I take them off.  Still expensive... but useless.



regards



--------

Ernest Jessee

N4931M





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398748#398748



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 [quote][b]

ejessee

Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 60
Location: Raleigh, NC

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Slats

Thank you for your replies.  At this moment, my 701 is advertised for sale, but I will be damned if I will give her away.  As time passes and I think about the safety record of the 701 and 912 engine AND the hassle of selling AND the hassle of buying another plane, I am beginning to question my decision to sell.



I wanted to get more of a "cruiser".  My slat removal thoughts came from my trying to figure out how to "have my cake and eat it too".



Thanks again.

_________________
Ernest Jessee
N4931M

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