 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Mike Whisky
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 336
Location: Switzerland
|
 Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:10 am Post subject: Avionic wiring nightmare |
 |
|
I just went through the avionic wiring nightmare today, for some reason the AF-4500 wasn't receiving any GPS ARINC data from the GNS430. I removed the GNS430 to find one pin totally bent, it obviously didn't catch the right hole when I installed the GNS430 a couple days ago when testing the new anti collision device.
Long story short I spent almost three hours on my back behind the panel trying to remove the broken high density pin with the removal tool, cutting the pin off and removing the insulation and crimping a new pin all in the most awkward position for my arms and hands ever. I just hope that I never have to go back there again.
Anyway I am just worried that I could bend a pin like this again, I don't recall when installing the GNS430 torque forces were higher than before, any ideas how to prevent something like this happening again?
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
RV-10 builder (flying)
#511 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:44 am Post subject: Avionic wiring nightmare |
|
|
When possible we include a "service loop" so the poor bastard that has to hunt down wiring issues can review the the connectors without inverted training.
Robin
________________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of Mike Whisky [rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 11:10 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Avionic wiring nightmare
I just went through the avionic wiring nightmare today, for some reason the AF-4500 wasn't receiving any GPS ARINC data from the GNS430. I removed the GNS430 to find one pin totally bent, it obviously didn't catch the right hole when I installed the GNS430 a couple days ago when testing the new anti collision device.
Long story short I spent almost three hours on my back behind the panel trying to remove the broken high density pin with the removal tool, cutting the pin off and removing the insulation and crimping a new pin all in the most awkward position for my arms and hands ever. I just hope that I never have to go back there again.
Anyway I am just worried that I could bend a pin like this again, I don't recall when installing the GNS430 torque forces were higher than before, any ideas how to prevent something like this happening again?
--------
RV-10 builder (final assembly)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398964#398964
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:13 am Post subject: Avionic wiring nightmare |
|
|
Or, design the panel so it comes out as a unit so you can do this on the
bench.
Carl
--
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Avionic wiring nightmare |
|
|
The pins should be partially engaged before you do any torquing on the Allan wrench. If you feel any resistance for the last few mm of insertion stop, back out a bit and wiggle slightly as you slide it in by hand. It is a matter of feel but there is a difference if all the pins are not lined up.
Don't feel bad. I've seen this happen at least twice, by different professional avionics shops.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
davidsoutpost(at)comcast.
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:55 pm Post subject: Avionic wiring nightmare |
|
|
Man can I relate as I am wiring my panel now. I did as many of the pins as I could on the bench. There is still a ton to do while in the plane doing the final connections. The pins bend easily,,,especially the high density pins Garmin love's to use. I've been triple checking each and every one as they go in: Good crimp, proper location, and then a gentle tug and push on the pin to make certain its engaged in the D-sub. Finally examine the filled D-sub looking for any pins that don't line up and straighten them out. I don't know at what stage of installing the avionic in the tray the pins engage but you probably would not really feel the resistance with an HD pin that did not engage properly as you seat the avionic in the tray with the Allen wrench. I did make all my wires long enough to be able to pull out of the front of the panel and I also interconnected my three avionics trays and it removes as a unit with 8 screws if I need to access the tray connectors.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
From: "Mike Whisky" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 2:10:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Avionic wiring nightmare
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Whisky" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
I just went through the avionic wiring nightmare today, for some reason the AF-4500 wasn't receiving any GPS ARINC data from the GNS430. I removed the GNS430 to find one pin totally bent, it obviously didn't catch the right hole when I installed the GNS430 a couple days ago when testing the new anti collision device.
Long story short I spent almost three hours on my back behind the panel trying to remove the broken high density pin with the removal tool, cutting the pin off and removing the insulation and crimping a new pin all in the most awkward position for my arms and hands ever. I just hope that I never have to go back there again.
Anyway I am just worried that I could bend a pin like this again, I don't recall when installing the GNS430 torque forces were higher than before, any ideas how to prevent something like this happening again?
--------
RV-10 builder (final assembly)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/========================
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:02 pm Post subject: Avionic wiring nightmare |
|
|
Working on the back of the radios happens a lot more often than most builders realize. It really helps to have a plan while you're building that will provide access there. It helps to break up the panel into sections that can be removed to make a hole.
Another thing that helps a lot is to use the long thumbscrews to attach the D-connectors to the cans. The screws that Garmin ships now have serrations for fingers and also hex drives for a socket, much better than short screws with plain slots that can literally take hours to attach. Stein, can you sell the new Garmin type screws? I know you have long ones which are already a huge help.
Another thing I think I've mentioned before-- we now run virtually all serial wires into a single connector. All ins and outs populate a large circular (63 pin?), then use the other half to jumper all the signals to their desired mates. Put the airframe connector on a service loop that you can reach, and then you can just pull the jumper side out to work on it on the bench. It really comes in handy when making changes, updates, troubleshooting, etc.
On Friday, April 19, 2013, wrote:
| Quote: | Man can I relate as I am wiring my panel now. I did as many of the pins as I could on the bench. There is still a ton to do while in the plane doing the final connections. The pins bend easily,,,especially the high density pins Garmin love's to use. I've been triple checking each and every one as they go in: Good crimp, proper location, and then a gentle tug and push on the pin to make certain its engaged in the D-sub. Finally examine the filled D-sub looking for any pins that don't line up and straighten them out. I don't know at what stage of installing the avionic in the tray the pins engage but you probably would not really feel the resistance with an HD pin that did not engage properly as you seat the avionic in the tray with the Allen wrench. I did make all my wires long enough to be able to pull out of the front of the panel and I also interconnected my three avionics trays and it removes as a unit with 8 screws if I need to access the tray connectors.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
From: "Mike Whisky" <[url=javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net');]rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net[/url]>
To: [url=javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'rv10-list(at)matronics.com');]rv10-list(at)matronics.com[/url]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 2:10:39 PM
Subject: Avionic wiring nightmare
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Whisky" <[url=javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net');]rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net[/url]>
I just went through the avionic wiring nightmare today, for some reason the AF-4500 wasn't receiving any GPS ARINC data from the GNS430. I removed the GNS430 to find one pin totally bent, it obviously didn't catch the right hole when I installed the GNS430 a couple days ago when testing the new anti collision device.
Long story short I spent almost three hours on my back behind the panel trying to remove the broken high density pin with the removal tool, cutting the pin off and removing the insulation and crimping a new pin all in the most awkward position for my arms and hands ever. I just hope that I never have to go back there again.
Anyway I am just worried that I could bend a pin like this again, I don't recall when installing the GNS430 torque forces were higher than before, any ideas how to prevent something like this happening again?
--------
RV-10 builder (final assembly)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/========================
| Quote: |
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
--
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:22 pm Post subject: Avionic wiring nightmare |
|
|
I made my panel removable in one piece. Power goes through Molex connectors and signal wires go through D connectors.
I replaced the rivet tab on the switch/breaker (lower panel) with an angle and nutplate.
To remove the panel I remove all the screws and slide the right side aft until it clears that channel and move the panel to the right so it clears the left channel.
Lay the panel on the stringer below the channel and support the top of the panel on a piecee of PVC pipe with the foam tube insulation on it. I now have access to all the connections to the airframe .... including the pitot/static lines. There are two power cables that need to be removed .... power to the buss and the alternator breaker feed.
It really works well as I've had it in/out several times. Probably won't need to pull the panel after the first flight though!!!
Linn
On 4/19/2013 7:01 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
[quote]Working on the back of the radios happens a lot more often than most builders realize. It really helps to have a plan while you're building that will provide access there. It helps to break up the panel into sections that can be removed to make a hole.
Another thing that helps a lot is to use the long thumbscrews to attach the D-connectors to the cans. The screws that Garmin ships now have serrations for fingers and also hex drives for a socket, much better than short screws with plain slots that can literally take hours to attach. Stein, can you sell the new Garmin type screws? I know you have long ones which are already a huge help.
Another thing I think I've mentioned before-- we now run virtually all serial wires into a single connector. All ins and outs populate a large circular (63 pin?), then use the other half to jumper all the signals to their desired mates. Put the airframe connector on a service loop that you can reach, and then you can just pull the jumper side out to work on it on the bench. It really comes in handy when making changes, updates, troubleshooting, etc.
On Friday, April 19, 2013, wrote:
| Quote: | Man can I relate as I am wiring my panel now. I did as many of the pins as I could on the bench. There is still a ton to do while in the plane doing the final connections. The pins bend easily,,,especially the high density pins Garmin love's to use. I've been triple checking each and every one as they go in: Good crimp, proper location, and then a gentle tug and push on the pin to make certain its engaged in the D-sub. Finally examine the filled D-sub looking for any pins that don't line up and straighten them out. I don't know at what stage of installing the avionic in the tray the pins engage but you probably would not really feel the resistance with an HD pin that did not engage properly as you seat the avionic in the tray with the Allen wrench. I did make all my wires long enough to be able to pull out of the front of the panel and I also interconnected my three avionics trays and it removes as a unit with 8 screws if I need to access the tray connectors.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
From: "Mike Whisky" <[url=javascript:_e({}, \'cvml\', \'rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net\');]rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net[/url]>
To: [url=javascript:_e({}, \'cvml\', \'rv10-list(at)matronics.com\');]rv10-list(at)matronics.com[/url]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 2:10:39 PM
Subject: Avionic wiring nightmare
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Whisky" <[url=javascript:_e({}, \'cvml\', \'rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net\');]rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net[/url]>
I just went through the avionic wiring nightmare today, for some reason the AF-4500 wasn't receiving any GPS ARINC data from the GNS430. I removed the GNS430 to find one pin totally bent, it obviously didn't catch the right hole when I installed the GNS430 a couple days ago when testing the new anti collision device.
Long story short I spent almost three hours on my back behind the panel trying to remove the broken high density pin with the removal tool, cutting the pin off and removing the insulation and crimping a new pin all in the most awkward position for my arms and hands ever. I just hope that I never have to go back there again.
Anyway I am just worried that I could bend a pin like this again, I don't recall when installing the GNS430 torque forces were higher than before, any ideas how to prevent something like this happening again?
--------
RV-10 builder (final assembly)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/========================
|
--
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
| Quote: |
om/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
s.com">http://forums.matronics.com
om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
04/19/13 [b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stein(at)steinair.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:57 pm Post subject: Avionic wiring nightmare |
|
|
I believe we can get those new Garmin type thumbscrews (probably the nicest ones to work with that I’ve seen), though I don’t know yet how or if they’d work with other connectors. I’ll do some checking next week and report back. We do keep normal thumbscrews in stock that work on the plain jane standard Dsbubs, but they aren’t as nice as the new Garmin ones.
Cheers,
Stein
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 6:01 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Avionic wiring nightmare
Working on the back of the radios happens a lot more often than most builders realize. It really helps to have a plan while you're building that will provide access there. It helps to break up the panel into sections that can be removed to make a hole.
Another thing that helps a lot is to use the long thumbscrews to attach the D-connectors to the cans. The screws that Garmin ships now have serrations for fingers and also hex drives for a socket, much better than short screws with plain slots that can literally take hours to attach. Stein, can you sell the new Garmin type screws? I know you have long ones which are already a huge help.
Another thing I think I've mentioned before-- we now run virtually all serial wires into a single connector. All ins and outs populate a large circular (63 pin?), then use the other half to jumper all the signals to their desired mates. Put the airframe connector on a service loop that you can reach, and then you can just pull the jumper side out to work on it on the bench. It really comes in handy when making changes, updates, troubleshooting, etc.
On Friday, April 19, 2013, wrote:
Man can I relate as I am wiring my panel now. I did as many of the pins as I could on the bench. There is still a ton to do while in the plane doing the final connections. The pins bend easily,,,especially the high density pins Garmin love's to use. I've been triple checking each and every one as they go in: Good crimp, proper location, and then a gentle tug and push on the pin to make certain its engaged in the D-sub. Finally examine the filled D-sub looking for any pins that don't line up and straighten them out. I don't know at what stage of installing the avionic in the tray the pins engage but you probably would not really feel the resistance with an HD pin that did not engage properly as you seat the avionic in the tray with the Allen wrench. I did make all my wires long enough to be able to pull out of the front of the panel and I also interconnected my three avionics trays and it removes as a unit with 8 screws if I need to access the tray connectors.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
From: "Mike Whisky" <[url=javascript:_e(%7b%7d,%20\'cvml\',%20\'rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net\');]rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net[/url]>
To: [url=javascript:_e(%7b%7d,%20\'cvml\',%20\'rv10-list(at)matronics.com\');]rv10-list(at)matronics.com[/url]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 2:10:39 PM
Subject: Avionic wiring nightmare
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Whisky" <[url=javascript:_e(%7b%7d,%20\'cvml\',%20\'rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net\');]rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net[/url]>
I just went through the avionic wiring nightmare today, for some reason the AF-4500 wasn't receiving any GPS ARINC data from the GNS430. I removed the GNS430 to find one pin totally bent, it obviously didn't catch the right hole when I installed the GNS430 a couple days ago when testing the new anti collision device.
Long story short I spent almost three hours on my back behind the panel trying to remove the broken high density pin with the removal tool, cutting the pin off and removing the insulation and crimping a new pin all in the most awkward position for my arms and hands ever. I just hope that I never have to go back there again.
Anyway I am just worried that I could bend a pin like this again, I don't recall when installing the GNS430 torque forces were higher than before, any ideas how to prevent something like this happening again?
--------
RV-10 builder (final assembly)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/========================
--
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL01234567890123
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Avionic wiring nightmare |
|
|
One of the nice things about flat panel displays is the large hole they leave in the panel when removed. When I need to work behind the panel the first thing I do is cut the cable ties holding the service loops, pull one or both GRT EFIS units out from the front and disconnect them. This leaves two large holes to work thru while sitting upright.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Whisky
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 336
Location: Switzerland
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Avionic wiring nightmare |
|
|
Thanks for all the replies. One issue simply is that the tray of the 430 goes through the sup-panel and therefore I have to work back there. The only way to remove the 64 pin high density pin connector is through the tray. My panel was made by Stein and I love it and its a great piece of workmanship that he delivered. But as I added now the Garrecht TRX-1500A anti collision warning system (ADS-B & FLARM) to display traffic on he GNS-430W and the AF-4500, I had no choice and pull the connector.
Mike
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
RV-10 builder (flying)
#511 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
