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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
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 Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:48 am Post subject: Balancing the fuel injectors |
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All,
It took a couple of iterations but I have been able to balance the fuel injectors to where the cylinders peak within 0.1 to 0.2 gph. With the stock engine (XIO-540 from Van's) the spread from first to peak to last to peak was 0.7 to 1.0 gph. I also now note the absence of any engine roughness even when well below LOP.
The Dynon SkyView data log function provided unbiased information on the fuel flow when each cylinder peaked. I also looked over a series of data runs (as in the each cross country) to make sure the information was repeatable. The standard injector nozzle for this engine is 0.028". This is my final nozzle set up for each cylinder:
#1: .028
#2: .029
#3: .027
#4: .027
#5: .029
#6: .0275
Note this is for my specific engine - your results will most likely be different.
Don at Airflow Performance provided valuable information on this effort as well as the nozzles themselves. His nozzles fit both Bendix or Precision fuel injection system.
Carl
[quote][b]
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amekler
Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:16 am Post subject: Balancing the fuel injectors |
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Good to hear. I also am working with Don after having no luck with GAMI.
My engine is. TMX IO 540
Stock is 0.025
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
On May 13, 2013, at 8:47 AM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
[quote] <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
All,
It took a couple of iterations but I have been able to balance the fuel injectors to where the cylinders peak within 0.1 to 0.2 gph. With the stock engine (XIO-540 from Van's) the spread from first to peak to last to peak was 0.7 to 1.0 gph. I also now note the absence of any engine roughness even when well below LOP.
The Dynon SkyView data log function provided unbiased information on the fuel flow when each cylinder peaked. I also looked over a series of data runs (as in the each cross country) to make sure the information was repeatable. The standard injector nozzle for this engine is 0.028". This is my final nozzle set up for each cylinder:
#1: .028
#2: .029
#3: .027
#4: .027
#5: .029
#6: .0275
Note this is for my specific engine - your results will most likely be different.
Don at Airflow Performance provided valuable information on this effort as well as the nozzles themselves. His nozzles fit both Bendix or Precision fuel injection system.
Carl
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:50 am Post subject: Balancing the fuel injectors |
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I have done this a number of times. In my talks with the guys at Airflow Performance, they said stock injectors are .028", but they recommended, for our application, to get a set of .026" nozzles before running the tests then go up and down from there, but I have done it both ways. It is a very easy and inexpensive way to do exactly what GAMI does, basically, except you aren't changing the injectors themselves, but rather just the $25 nozzles. Great product and great way to get LOP operations and a smooth running engine.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On May 13, 2013, at 9:16 AM, Alan Mekler MD <amekler(at)metrocast.net (amekler(at)metrocast.net)> wrote:
[quote]Good to hear. I also am working with Don after having no luck with GAMI.
My engine is. TMX IO 540
Stock is 0.025
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
On May 13, 2013, at 8:47 AM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
All,
It took a couple of iterations but I have been able to balance the fuel injectors to where the cylinders peak within 0.1 to 0.2 gph. With the stock engine (XIO-540 from Van's) the spread from first to peak to last to peak was 0.7 to 1.0 gph. I also now note the absence of any engine roughness even when well below LOP.
The Dynon SkyView data log function provided unbiased information on the fuel flow when each cylinder peaked. I also looked over a series of data runs (as in the each cross country) to make sure the information was repeatable. The standard injector nozzle for this engine is 0.028". This is my final nozzle set up for each cylinder:
#1: .028
#2: .029
#3: .027
#4: .027
#5: .029
#6: .0275
Note this is for my specific engine - your results will most likely be different.
Don at Airflow Performance provided valuable information on this effort as well as the nozzles themselves. His nozzles fit both Bendix or Precision fuel injection system.
Carl
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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[b]
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:58 am Post subject: Balancing the fuel injectors |
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At $27 per nozzle from Airflow Performance - also a lot less expensive route than GAMI.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Mekler MD
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 9:16 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Balancing the fuel injectors
Good to hear. I also am working with Don after having no luck with GAMI.
My engine is. TMX IO 540
Stock is 0.025
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
On May 13, 2013, at 8:47 AM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
All,
It took a couple of iterations but I have been able to balance the fuel injectors to where the cylinders peak within 0.1 to 0.2 gph. With the stock engine (XIO-540 from Van's) the spread from first to peak to last to peak was 0.7 to 1.0 gph. I also now note the absence of any engine roughness even when well below LOP.
The Dynon SkyView data log function provided unbiased information on the fuel flow when each cylinder peaked. I also looked over a series of data runs (as in the each cross country) to make sure the information was repeatable. The standard injector nozzle for this engine is 0.028". This is my final nozzle set up for each cylinder:
#1: .028
#2: .029
#3: .027
#4: .027
#5: .029
#6: .0275
Note this is for my specific engine - your results will most likely be different.
Don at Airflow Performance provided valuable information on this effort as well as the nozzles themselves. His nozzles fit both Bendix or Precision fuel injection system.
Carl
| Quote: | | ===================================://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List===================================cs.com===================================matronics.com/contribution=================================== |
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[quote][b]
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cooprv7(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:32 am Post subject: Balancing the fuel injectors |
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Jesse,
Just curious, but what is the reasoning behind switching to .026 prior to tweaking if it is running well?
Thanks,
Marcus
Do not archive
Sent from my iPad
On May 13, 2013, at 9:49, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)> wrote:
I have done this a number of times. In my talks with the guys at Airflow Performance, they said stock injectors are .028", but they recommended, for our application, to get a set of .026" nozzles before running the tests then go up and down from there, but I have done it both ways. It is a very easy and inexpensive way to do exactly what GAMI does, basically, except you aren't changing the injectors themselves, but rather just the $25 nozzles. Great product and great way to get LOP operations and a smooth running engine.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On May 13, 2013, at 9:16 AM, Alan Mekler MD <amekler(at)metrocast.net (amekler(at)metrocast.net)> wrote:
[quote]Good to hear. I also am working with Don after having no luck with GAMI.
My engine is. TMX IO 540
Stock is 0.025
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
On May 13, 2013, at 8:47 AM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
All,
It took a couple of iterations but I have been able to balance the fuel injectors to where the cylinders peak within 0.1 to 0.2 gph. With the stock engine (XIO-540 from Van's) the spread from first to peak to last to peak was 0.7 to 1.0 gph. I also now note the absence of any engine roughness even when well below LOP.
The Dynon SkyView data log function provided unbiased information on the fuel flow when each cylinder peaked. I also looked over a series of data runs (as in the each cross country) to make sure the information was repeatable. The standard injector nozzle for this engine is 0.028". This is my final nozzle set up for each cylinder:
#1: .028
#2: .029
#3: .027
#4: .027
#5: .029
#6: .0275
Note this is for my specific engine - your results will most likely be different.
Don at Airflow Performance provided valuable information on this effort as well as the nozzles themselves. His nozzles fit both Bendix or Precision fuel injection system.
Carl
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
===================================
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
===================================
cs.com
===================================
matronics.com/contribution
===================================
[b]
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:57 am Post subject: Balancing the fuel injectors |
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|
Probably better atomization. If your engine is running well, and all cylinders peak within .5 gph or less, leave well enough alone and be happy.
IIRC, if you are going to be anywhere in the Southeast, making the trip to Airflow and having them do the adjustments is the quickest and best way to get them all balanced.
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 7:32 AM, Cooprv7 <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com (cooprv7(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] Jesse,
Just curious, but what is the reasoning behind switching to .026 prior to tweaking if it is running well?
Thanks,
Marcus
Do not archive
Sent from my iPad
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD |
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n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:41 am Post subject: Balancing the fuel injectors |
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I received a new set of GAMI injectors with an engine I purchased in parts. Once I started flying (years later), GAMI set me up with the flow test set-up and swapped out 4 of my injectors with no questions asked. I had great service from them, even though I was not the original buyer.
Just a data point...
-Mike KrausRV-4 sold 
RV-10 flying 
KitFox SS7 Radial building
On May 13, 2013, at 9:16 AM, Alan Mekler MD <amekler(at)metrocast.net (amekler(at)metrocast.net)> wrote:
[quote]Good to hear. I also am working with Don after having no luck with GAMI.
My engine is. TMX IO 540
Stock is 0.025
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
On May 13, 2013, at 8:47 AM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
All,
It took a couple of iterations but I have been able to balance the fuel injectors to where the cylinders peak within 0.1 to 0.2 gph. With the stock engine (XIO-540 from Van's) the spread from first to peak to last to peak was 0.7 to 1.0 gph. I also now note the absence of any engine roughness even when well below LOP.
The Dynon SkyView data log function provided unbiased information on the fuel flow when each cylinder peaked. I also looked over a series of data runs (as in the each cross country) to make sure the information was repeatable. The standard injector nozzle for this engine is 0.028". This is my final nozzle set up for each cylinder:
#1: .028
#2: .029
#3: .027
#4: .027
#5: .029
#6: .0275
Note this is for my specific engine - your results will most likely be different.
Don at Airflow Performance provided valuable information on this effort as well as the nozzles themselves. His nozzles fit both Bendix or Precision fuel injection system.
Carl
===================================
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
===================================
cs.com
===================================
matronics.com/contribution
===================================
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:59 am Post subject: Balancing the fuel injectors |
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It may be less expensive than GAMI (happy) but it still can be expensive and time consuming. Between 2 airplanes (10 cylinders) I have a collection of 12 extra restrictors and I still don’t have the right mix to balance my -10.
I think it would be a cool thing to have an RV-List collection of injectors that we send around to builders. Pay for what you use and/or restock so we all don’t end up with so many extra restrictors.
If I ever build & order another engine I will request to start with 0.026 as I have a bunch of 0.028's I may never use.
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:58 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Balancing the fuel injectors
At $27 per nozzle from Airflow Performance - also a lot less expensive route than GAMI.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Alan Mekler MD
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 9:16 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Balancing the fuel injectors
Good to hear. I also am working with Don after having no luck with GAMI.
My engine is. TMX IO 540
Stock is 0.025
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
On May 13, 2013, at 8:47 AM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
All,
It took a couple of iterations but I have been able to balance the fuel injectors to where the cylinders peak within 0.1 to 0.2 gph. With the stock engine (XIO-540 from Van's) the spread from first to peak to last to peak was 0.7 to 1.0 gph. I also now note the absence of any engine roughness even when well below LOP.
The Dynon SkyView data log function provided unbiased information on the fuel flow when each cylinder peaked. I also looked over a series of data runs (as in the each cross country) to make sure the information was repeatable. The standard injector nozzle for this engine is 0.028". This is my final nozzle set up for each cylinder:
#1: .028
#2: .029
#3: .027
#4: .027
#5: .029
#6: .0275
Note this is for my specific engine - your results will most likely be different.
Don at Airflow Performance provided valuable information on this effort as well as the nozzles themselves. His nozzles fit both Bendix or Precision fuel injection system.
Carl
| Quote: | | ===================================://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List===================================cs.com===================================matronics.com/contribution=================================== |
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0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ==============[/b][/quote] V10-List Email Forum -[/b][/quote] >[/b][/quote] :p>[/b][/quote] /o:p>[/b][/quote] tor?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[/b][/quote] ==============[/b][/quote] bsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -[/b][/quote] :p>[/b][/quote] tp://forums.matronics.com[/b][/quote] ==============[/b][/quote] bsp; - List Contribution Web Site -[/b][/quote] e> bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.[/b][/quote] bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution[/b][/quote] ==============[/b] [/quote]8
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:33 am Post subject: Re: Balancing the fuel injectors |
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Don at AF told me that he liked to go a little smaller to start because at the low cruise fuel flows I was shooting for (<10 gal/hr, LOP) the .028" restrictors were hardly "restricting" at all, so there was very little back pressure. This in turn caused small variations in the spider (6 way split) to affect the distribution, making it hard to tune the restrictors.
Something not clear to me: if I go smaller all around, is the fuel computer able to sense this and provide higher pressures on takeoff, to keep the full power full rich fuel flow up where it belongs?
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Bob Turner
RV-10 QB |
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:48 am Post subject: Balancing the fuel injectors |
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I think the other reason to start at 0.026 is that 0.026 still exceeds max fuel flow required (most applications) and gives the owner room to move up and down size wise. Sizes above 0.028 were more rare and I think at one point special order while restrictor sizes above & below 0.026 are stock items.
Robin
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:21 am Post subject: Balancing the fuel injectors |
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That's exactly what AP said.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On May 13, 2013, at 10:56 AM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]Probably better atomization. If your engine is running well, and all cylinders peak within .5 gph or less, leave well enough alone and be happy.
IIRC, if you are going to be anywhere in the Southeast, making the trip to Airflow and having them do the adjustments is the quickest and best way to get them all balanced.
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 7:32 AM, Cooprv7 <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com (cooprv7(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Jesse,
Just curious, but what is the reasoning behind switching to .026 prior to tweaking if it is running well?
Thanks,
Marcus
Do not archive
Sent from my iPad
|
[b]
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:03 am Post subject: Balancing the fuel injectors |
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Don did recommend I start at 0.026" if I establish cruise below 12gph as the
primary driver.
As this was an iterative process however, I got this recommendation after I
first installed a couple of .029" nozzles to fix two cylinders peaking way
early. After that got me a lot closer, I did the two .027" injectors on the
cylinders peaking late (I had them left over from doing this on my 8A) and
then put in a .0275" as the final change. This is now so close that one
small tweak on the mixture knob has all cylinders peaking at the same time -
in other words I can't really measure the difference between the cylinders.
I don't think I'll mess with success.
If starting from scratch, I'd install .026" in the two or three cylinders
peaking late, then go from there. I don't think I would go smaller than
.026".
Carl
--
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amekler
Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:24 pm Post subject: Balancing the fuel injectors |
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Sent from my iPhone
On May 13, 2013, at 2:21 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)> wrote:
[quote]That's exactly what AP said.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On May 13, 2013, at 10:56 AM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Probably better atomization. If your engine is running well, and all cylinders peak within .5 gph or less, leave well enough alone and be happy.
IIRC, if you are going to be anywhere in the Southeast, making the trip to Airflow and having them do the adjustments is the quickest and best way to get them all balanced.
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 7:32 AM, Cooprv7 <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com (cooprv7(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Jesse,
Just curious, but what is the reasoning behind switching to .026 prior to tweaking if it is running well?
Thanks,
Marcus
Do not archive
Sent from my iPad
|
|
[b]
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