Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Lift Reserve Indicator

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Lift Reserve Indicator

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 10:16 am Post subject: Lift Reserve Indicator

One of the members of my EAA chapter sent this to me for our newsletter. After I put it in, I got to thinking it might be interesting for the Kolb forum so I put it in a separate PDF.



Rick Girard 



-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx

LRI_Article.pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

LRI_Article.pdf

Filesize:

685.85 KB

Downloaded:

971 Time(s)

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 6:55 am Post subject: Lift Reserve Indicator

Jim sent me the info on the gauge he used. It's a "Minihelic" gauge from Dwyer,   dwyer-inst.com, The part no. is 2-5002. 



Rick



On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  One of the members of my EAA chapter sent this to me for our newsletter. After I put it in, I got to thinking it might be interesting for the Kolb forum so I put it in a separate PDF. 



Rick Girard 



-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

    - Groucho Marx

 



 	




-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx

 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 7:55 am Post subject: Lift Reserve Indicator

color me simple...  but I donâ€™t see the need....  aircraft that  fly at extremely high altitude have a need. because the difference in operating  speeds and stall speed narrows at high altitude. example:  ss  blackbird,,,,,   the difference between stall and an operational speed  of Mach 3  is less than 15 mph.....    or aircraft that are  heavy haulers  can have their  weight doubled when loaded vs  empty.  this  can have a large difference in stall speed when empty or  loaded to max....  

  

 our little planes are not going to be found at 43,000 feet....  and by  the time we weigh the plane and pilot, are we going to double that weight when  we add a passenger, provided we have room for a passenger....  so the  indicated airspeed at stall is not going to change enough,  in my humble  opinion,  to require an extra system in the plane.

  

 golly gee... when I fly I like to see the area I am flying over..  not  fixate on a gauge that gives me very little additional flight data,,,  but  if you like your gadgets,,,,,  go for it.  or prove me wrong,,,   go and test and give me the differences in indicated airspeed at stall  at  max weight, vs normal operating weight...  when your reserve lift gauge  RLG  hits zero.  shucks  maybe ill have some crow to eat,,,   it will probably taste like chicken anyway....  

  

 kiss  keep it simple sailor 

  

 boyd young

 do not archive

  

 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  

  



  Jim sent me the info on the gauge he used. It's a "Minihelic" gauge  from Dwyer,    dwyer-inst.com, The part no. is  2-5002.   

 Rick



 



 On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]   One of the members of my EAA chapter sent this to me for our    newsletter. After I put it in, I got to thinking it might be interesting for    the Kolb forum so I put it in a separate PDF.     

   Rick Girard    

 [b]

kuffel(at)cyberport.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 8:41 am Post subject: Lift Reserve Indicator

Boyd,

  

 <<  I donâ€™t see the  need  ...   when I fly I like to see the area I am flying  over..  not fixate on a gauge  >>

  

 Of course, an AOA gauge is for use on approach, not  cruise.  It lets you know exactly how close you are to stall independent of  other factors.  So for typical aircraft attempting high performance  landings (sandbars for example), this gauge is very useful.  However, agree  for Kolbs you don't need to execute a high performance landing to get into the  shortest of fields since the Kolb has such a low approach speed and high drag  anyway.

  

 Tom Kuffel

   [quote][b]

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:00 am Post subject: Lift Reserve Indicator

Tom

  

 I had not thought of the sandbar landing, I was only thinking of the way I  fly my plane...    I bow to your experience....  do I need  to start preparing my, taste just like chicken, crow ?

  

 boyd young

  

 do not archive

    

  From: The Kuffels (kuffel(at)cyberport.net) 

 Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 10:40 AM

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Lift Reserve Indicator

  



  Boyd,

  

 <<  I donâ€™t see the need  ...    when I fly I like to see the area I am flying over..  not fixate on a  gauge  >>

  

 Of course, an AOA gauge is for use on approach, not  cruise.  It lets you know exactly how close you are to stall independent of  other factors.  So for typical aircraft attempting high performance  landings (sandbars for example), this gauge is very useful.  However, agree  for Kolbs you don't need to execute a high performance landing to get into the  shortest of fields since the Kolb has such a low approach speed and high drag  anyway.

  

 Tom Kuffel

[quote]



[b]

Rick Lewis

Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 122
Location: Kingston, Tn.

Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Lift Reserve Indicator

I have to admit I love gadget's as electronics has been my life.  I have to say, though , learn to fly your plane and feel what it's telling you when landing.  Looking at your airspeed is all you need to come home alive.  Never paste your face on the dashboard as you have to do when flying in instrument conditions....

_________________
Rick Lewis

(VW Watercooled Engine)

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 3:28 am Post subject: Re: Lift Reserve Indicator

Calculating the change in stall speed based on change in weight is pretty easy. The stall speed changes with the square root of the change in flying weight, all other things being equal.



Example:

Typical flying weight solo 900 lbs., stall speed 40

Add a 200 lb passenger, flying weight becomes 1100 lbs



1100/900 = 1.22



sqrt(1.22) = 1.11  therefore stall speed at 1100 lbs = 44.4



So, for these class of airplanes, adding 5 to indicated speed during approach when carrying a passenger, an often heard bit of advice, is about right.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:42 am Post subject: Lift Reserve Indicator

I sent the article to start a discussion since the Kolb list has been pretty quiet these days and it achieved that goal.In defense of the idea, where is that most stall/spin accidents occur? At low speeds while approaching or departing an airport. Jim's indicator, as you can see from the picture, is located at the top of his panel where it can attract attention during that critical phase when the pilot's eyes should be outside the cockpit looking for traffic.

 We've lost one list member to a landing stall/spin on his very first flight in his newly completed IIIX. Would an LRI helped? No way to know, but angle of attack gauges are the latest rage to combat the stall/spin accident and Jim came up with a homebuilder's solution that's inexpensive and uncomplicated.

 



Rick Girard



-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx

 



  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 7:08 am Post subject: Lift Reserve Indicator

I read below that we lost a member in a stall spin accident, I've been off list for quite a while and had missed this. I'm saddened to hear, but have to ask who it was? 



Skid Rowe

Mk 3 2si 690, PA

Do not archive



On May 9, 2013, at 10:41 AM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> wrote:



[quote] I sent the article to start a discussion since the Kolb list has been pretty quiet these days and it achieved that goal.

 In defense of the idea, where is that most stall/spin accidents occur? At low speeds while approaching or departing an airport. Jim's indicator, as you can see from the picture, is located at the top of his panel where it can attract attention during that critical phase when the pilot's eyes should be outside the cockpit looking for traffic.

 We've lost one list member to a landing stall/spin on his very first flight in his newly completed IIIX. Would an LRI helped? No way to know, but angle of attack gauges are the latest rage to combat the stall/spin accident and Jim came up with a homebuilder's solution that's inexpensive and uncomplicated.

 

 Rick Girard

 

 -- 

 Zulu Delta

 Mk IIIC

 Thanks, Homer GBYM

 

 It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 5:49 am Post subject: Lift Reserve Indicator

Dennis, it was a few years ago. Scott, as I recall, was his first name, sorry I forget his last (England?) He and his partner built a beautiful Mk IIIX. He was a new pilot with a Sport Pilot ticket and spun in when he stalled the airplane on the base to final turn. 



Rick



On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny(at)windstream.net (rowedenny(at)windstream.net)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I read below that we lost a member in a stall spin accident, I've been off list for quite a while and had missed this. I'm saddened to hear, but have to ask who it was? 

 

Skid RoweMk 3 2si 690, PA



Do not archive



On May 9, 2013, at 10:41 AM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 

 	  Quote: 	
		  I sent the article to start a discussion since the Kolb list has been pretty quiet these days and it achieved that goal.In defense of the idea, where is that most stall/spin accidents occur? At low speeds while approaching or departing an airport. Jim's indicator, as you can see from the picture, is located at the top of his panel where it can attract attention during that critical phase when the pilot's eyes should be outside the cockpit looking for traffic.

  We've lost one list member to a landing stall/spin on his very first flight in his newly completed IIIX. Would an LRI helped? No way to know, but angle of attack gauges are the latest rage to combat the stall/spin accident and Jim came up with a homebuilder's solution that's inexpensive and uncomplicated.

  



Rick Girard



-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

    - Groucho Marx

 



   	  Quote: 	
		  



==========

://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

==========

cs.com

==========

matronics.com/contribution

==========



	






get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	




-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx

 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 5:55 am Post subject: Lift Reserve Indicator

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny(at)windstream.net (rowedenny(at)windstream.net)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I read below that we lost a member in a stall spin accident, I've been off list for quite a while and had missed this. I'm saddened to hear, but have to ask who it was?  	
 



August 10, 2009 (from a John Hauck email on the Kolb-List):

"Brad Stump, flying his Kolb MKIIIx, and a passenger died Saturday.

 Brad trailered his MKIIIx to the Kolb Homecoming last year. http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=10878641 The accident is also listed in the FAA Preliminary Accident Reports for 10 Aug." 





  [quote][b]

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 6:25 am Post subject: Lift Reserve Indicator

Different accident Robert.Here's the NTSB Factual Report

http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/xmceaj45y0stth45pylpnl551/J05102013120000.pdf

 

and here's the final

http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/5ulae355krrtfn45s0twgm2t1/G05102013120000.pdf

 

Rick Girard



On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com (rlaird(at)cavediver.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny(at)windstream.net (rowedenny(at)windstream.net)> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		  I read below that we lost a member in a stall spin accident, I've been off list for quite a while and had missed this. I'm saddened to hear, but have to ask who it was?  	
  

August 10, 2009 (from a John Hauck email on the Kolb-List):

"Brad Stump, flying his Kolb MKIIIx, and a passenger died Saturday.

  Brad trailered his MKIIIx to the Kolb Homecoming last year.  http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=10878641  The accident is also listed in the FAA Preliminary Accident Reports for 10 Aug."  





    	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




	




-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx

 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 6:34 am Post subject: Lift Reserve Indicator

Two things.



First, Rick Lewis:  You mentioned something about a pilot being concentrated too much on 

"electronic gages".  For the record, the Lift Reserve Indicator shared to the list by Rick G

is ONLY a sensitive air pressure gage, and necessary tubing and pitot mast.  No electronics.



Listers:  If anyone on the list is interested, I have the "real" thing, i.e., the Lift Reserve Indicator" made and

sold by LRI, Inc.  As Rick G mentioned, the gage is a super sensitive Dwyer (I have 4 additional gages 

I bought on eBay ( 0-2psi)

The pitot mast is an easily duplicated aluminum fixture.  Detailed photos upon request.

Aircraft Spruce sells the red/green/ yellow curved arc gage stick-ons.



Lift Reserve Indicator.  Some pilots will like them.  Some will think they are a waste of time.

Mike Welch

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum