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Floscan location and Matronics fuel line pulsation damper

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Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 7:22 pm Post subject: Floscan location and Matronics fuel line pulsation damper

I have Skyview Revision N Install manual. I see nothing in that manual 

saying the sensor should not go forward of the firewall. The EI Red Cube 

(current Dynon sensor) is installed on many certified aircraft. For 

Lycoming engines with Bendix fuel injection, the STC required location 

is between the mechanical pump and the fuel servo inlet, away from 

exhaust pipes.  I have one in that location on my Mooney.

The tunnel has known problems, more likely from the fact it is on the 

suction side of the mechanical pump than from heat.



On 5/31/2013 7:58 PM, Pascal wrote:

[quote] 



 http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=99641917?KEYS=pulsation_damper?LISTNAME=RV10?HITNUMBER=1?SERIAL=1955173315?SHOWBUTTONS=YES 

 Have mine in the tunnel. I had a low fuel pressure warning twice- it 

 was 0ver 85F on a climb, otherwise never had any issue with it's 

 accuracy.

 Many will tell you to move it to the firewall, Dynon, for one, tells 

 the installers not to, and all I can think is that it would be even 

 hotter there than in the tunnel.

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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 11:16 pm Post subject: Floscan location and Matronics fuel line pulsation damper

The beauty of putting the cube in the tunnel is that you get to remove & relocate it once you are flying. Talk about enjoyable! I did as the plans describe and had 2-3 gph fluctuations including 800 RPM taxi showing 12 GPH... sometimes. Other times it would read 4.3 GPH. Want another indication just flip on your boost pump and you get a whole different reading. No way for me to balance injectors w/o accurate fuel flow. I relocated FWF (I like Sean's install in archives) and all issues went away. I still get the occasional 0.4 GPH fluctuations but that is because I don't have the ideal length flow in/out of the cube.

I only have read one pirep on the damper and it was No Joy.

Robin



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aerosport1

Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 231

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:23 am Post subject: Floscan location and Matronics fuel line pulsation damper

I ditto Robins remarks. Why take the chance of having a problem and then have to move it. PIREP from everyone

Having it FWF is positive. 400 hrs and 

Great results for myself.  Soft mount it up front and be a happy.



Geoff 



Sent from my iPhone



On Jun 1, 2013, at 3:16 AM, Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 The beauty of putting the cube in the tunnel is that you get to remove & relocate it once you are flying. Talk about enjoyable! I did as the plans describe and had 2-3 gph fluctuations including 800 RPM taxi showing 12 GPH... sometimes. Other times it would read 4.3 GPH. Want another indication just flip on your boost pump and you get a whole different reading. No way for me to balance injectors w/o accurate fuel flow. I relocated FWF (I like Sean's install in archives) and all issues went away. I still get the occasional 0.4 GPH fluctuations but that is because I don't have the ideal length flow in/out of the cube.

 I only have read one pirep on the damper and it was No Joy.

 Robin

 

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_________________
Geoff Combs
RV-10 QB N829GW
Flying 500 hrs
40033

arplnplt(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:03 am Post subject: Floscan location and Matronics fuel line pulsation damper

Definitely put it between the servo and spider.

I talked directly with Flo-Scan about this and they said the worst place is between the the two fuel pumps.  They said the best would be before the valve.  (We can't do this obviously.)

I installed mine just in front of the servo (or after as flow goes,) with a somewhat floating, flexible mount on the air box.  I'm within a 1/2 gallon on every fill.  

Use flexible hose, do not make it rigid.

Dave Leikam

N89DA

On Jun 1, 2013, at 9:22 AM, g.combs wrote:

[quote] 

 I ditto Robins remarks. Why take the chance of having a problem and then have to move it. PIREP from everyone

 Having it FWF is positive. 400 hrs and 

 Great results for myself.  Soft mount it up front and be a happy.

 Geoff 

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jun 1, 2013, at 3:16 AM, Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> The beauty of putting the cube in the tunnel is that you get to remove & relocate it once you are flying. Talk about enjoyable! I did as the plans describe and had 2-3 gph fluctuations including 800 RPM taxi showing 12 GPH... sometimes. Other times it would read 4.3 GPH. Want another indication just flip on your boost pump and you get a whole different reading. No way for me to balance injectors w/o accurate fuel flow. I relocated FWF (I like Sean's install in archives) and all issues went away. I still get the occasional 0.4 GPH fluctuations but that is because I don't have the ideal length flow in/out of the cube.

> I only have read one pirep on the damper and it was No Joy.

> Robin

> 

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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:29 am Post subject: Floscan location and Matronics fuel line pulsation damper

I mounted my Dynon "red cube" in the tunnel.  I knew some had issues with

this location but it was the easy option.  I do see some minor flow

fluctuation when I turn on the boost pump.  Overall operation however is

fine and rock steady.  My fuel used total is always within half a gallon

when I fill up.  At this point I have no reason to move it.  If I had it to

do over however I'd would likely put the cube between the throttle body and

the spider like I did in the 8A.



I did insulate the tunnel at the firewall and the tunnel floor, and I put a

piece of insulation between the red cube and the tunnel mount. I don't have

any tunnel heat issues.



Carl

90 hours.



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rv10flyer(at)live.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:46 am Post subject: Floscan location and Matronics fuel line pulsation damper

The flip side is Dynon does tell one (pg7-41) "It is common to place the 

sender downstream of any auxiliary electric boost pumps but upstream of the 

engine driven fuel pump." as does Vans. I think they need to consult Floscan 

on getting that perception updated!! I am usually less than .3 off at 

fillups, could be user error as well since I say 60 gallons and there may be 

59.X, but it is pretty consistent and minor.

My point is that it works just fine for me in the tunnel. It probably is 

easier to install in the spider/ servo area as the tunnel setup was a bear 

for me from the boost pump, but it works and I don’t see a need to move it..

With all that said- If I was doing this again- I would seriously consider 

putting it up front by the servo/spider.



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Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:40 pm Post subject: Floscan location and Matronics fuel line pulsation damper

Your transducer is after that loop regardless of whether it is in the 

tunnel or on the engine. Has no effect on measurement going through the 

transducer.

The loop simply allows the pump output to be held to a preset maximum, 

with any excess going back to the pump inlet.



On 6/2/2013 10:01 AM, ibspud(at)roadrunner.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I was referring to the return loop on the Airflow Performance pumps that goes from the pump manifold back to a T fitting at the fuel selector valve input. My calculated fuel consumption agrees closely with actual consumption so it appears there is little recirculated fuel involved. Just wondering what the return loop's function is?

 Albert Gardner

 N991RV

 Yuma, AZ

   

 ---- Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:

> 

>

> It is an unusual installation for a Lycoming fuel injected engine to

> have a fuel return line. Bendix FI does not. AF has a purge line which

> may or may not return to the tank, but is only used for shutdown, there

> is no return when engine is running. Only Continental injection or

> systems modeled after it have an active return line, and there are

> sensors to account for that fuel, but not something that most RV-10

> operations need to be concerned with.

> On 6/1/2013 9:56 PM, ibspud(at)roadrunner.com wrote:

>> 

>>

>> Since, on injected engines, there is a fuel return line that goes from the pump back to the fuel selector valve, does the Floscan sender report higher flue flow than is actually used by the engine? Or is there only a small amount of fuel returned via that bypass route?

>> Albert Gardner

>> N991RV

>> Yuma, AZ

>>

>>     

>>

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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

rv10flyer

Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Floscan location and Matronics fuel line pulsation damp

My red cube works fine in the tunnel. With the boost pump on, fuel line disconnected at servo inlet, I was getting 42 gph flow. Plenty for an engine that needs 26-27 gph at takeoff. I made a 5052 tube to take the place of my red cube/two hard lines if I ever need to move it. Same as others...accurate to .5 gallon.

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