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where to locate fuel pressure sensor

 
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rowlandcarson(at)gmail.co
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: where to locate fuel pressure sensor Reply with quote

I've not yet started the firewall-forward work, but am planning the fuel system of my 912S installation as a whole while working on the fuselage parts of it.

I'm intending to install a UMA fuel pressure sensor, and for it to be most useful, it seems good to have it as close to the carburettors as possible.

The manual shows the fuel line coming from the mechanical pump first to the starboard carb, then the port carb and finally exiting via the restrictor to the return line, so the choices for positioning a pressure sensor takeoff tee are (a) between pump & stbd carb, (b) between the 2 carbs, and (c) between the port carb and the restrictor.

I notice in the current Kitplanes a picture of several engine-bay sensors mounted on the firewall and the caption says:

"Sensors for (left to right) oil pressure, manifold pressure, and fuel pressure should be mounted remotely on the firewall."

Presumably this recommendation is to isolate them from engine vibration & heat. However, without adding a long extra piece of piping, the only one of the 3 choices above that allows a firewall mount is (c) - between the port carb and the restrictor.

Does anyone see a problem with this proposed arrangement?

If I'm barking up the wrong tree, where have others mounted fuel pressure sensors?

in friendship

Rowland

| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
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brian.davies(at)clara.co.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:56 pm    Post subject: where to locate fuel pressure sensor Reply with quote

Rowland,

That is where I mounted my sensor. I have not identified any disadvantages.

Brian

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philipgeorge347(at)hotmai
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:59 am    Post subject: where to locate fuel pressure sensor Reply with quote

Rowland  Hi
why not have a purpose made fuel manifold , mounted between and below both carbs with ports drilled for various takeoffs.  So you can bring the fuel in at the front with outlets to carbs left and right  the return line at the top and the fuel pressure sensor mounted at the bottom . Eliminating the tee pieces for a really neat job.   The manifold could be made from a block of aluminium ect. Bar stock 30mm dia. and machined on the lathe. 
                                                                                Best regards Philip George

Quote:
From: rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com
Subject: where to locate fuel pressure sensor
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 06:10:48 +0100
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>

I've not yet started the firewall-forward work, but am planning the fuel system of my 912S installation as a whole while working on the fuselage parts of it.

I'm intending to install a UMA fuel pressure sensor, and for it to be most useful, it seems good to have it as close to the carburettors as possible.

The manual shows the fuel line coming from the mechanical pump first to the starboard carb, then the port carb and finally exiting via the restrictor to the return line, so the choices for positioning a pressure sensor takeoff tee are (a) between pump & stbd carb, (b) between the 2 carbs, and (c) between the port carb and the restrictor.

I notice in the current Kitplanes a picture of several engine-bay sensors mounted on the firewall and the caption says:

"Sensors for (left to right) oil pressure, manifold pressure, and fuel pressure should be mounted remotely on the firewall."

Presumably this recommendation is to isolate them from engine vibration & heat. However, without adding a long extra piece of piping, the only one of the 3 choices above that allows a firewall mount is (c) - between the port carb and the restrictor.

Does anyone see a problem with this proposed arrangement?

If I'm barking up the wrong tree, where have others mounted fuel pressure sensors?

in friendship

Rowland

| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
| pictures: http://picasaweb.go=





[quote][b]


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richard collings



Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 73
Location: warwickshire england

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:13 am    Post subject: where to locate fuel pressure sensor Reply with quote

Hi Rowland
Philip suggests making a fuel manifold, he probably didn't know that new rotax engines are supplied with just such a manifold, contact Conair for a price also look at the latest installation drawings for a picture.
For what its worth I modified the fuel pipe runs, dispensing with the rubber pipes in favour of proper aircraft aluminium see Mod No 13304
Best wishes Richard



        day, June 13, 2013 10:59 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: where to locate fuel pressure sensor


Rowland Hi
why not have a purpose made fuel manifold , mounted between and below both carbs with ports drilled for various takeoffs. So you can bring the fuel in at the front with outlets to carbs left and right the return line at the top and the fuel pressure sensor mounted at the bottom . Eliminating the tee pieces for a really neat job. The manifold could be made from a block of aluminium ect. Bar stock 30mm dia. and machined on the lathe.
          Best regards Philip George

> From: rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com
Quote:
Subject: where to locate fuel pressure sensor
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 06:10:48 +0100
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>

I've not yet started the firewall-forward work, but am planning the fuel system of my 912S installation as a whole while working on the fuselage parts of it.

I'm intending to install a UMA fuel pressure sensor, and for it to be most useful, it seems good to have it as close to the carburettors as possible.

The manual shows the fuel line coming from the mechanical pump first to the starboard carb, then the port carb and finally exiting via the restrictor to the return line, so the choices for positioning a pressure sensor takeoff tee are (a) between pump & stbd carb, (b) between the 2 carbs, and (c) between the port carb and the restrictor.

I notice in the current Kitplanes a picture of several engine-bay sensors mounted on the firewall and the caption says:

"Sensors for (left to right) oil pressure, manifold pressure, and fuel pressure should be mounted remotely on the firewall."

Presumably this recommendation is to isolate them from engine vibration & heat. However, without adding a long extra piece of piping, the only one of the 3 choices above that allows a firewall mount is (c) - between the port carb and the restrictor.

Does anyone see a problem with this proposed arrangement?

If I'm barking up the wrong tree, where have others mounted fuel pressure sensors?

in friendship

Rowland

| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ..
| <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
| pictures: http://picasaweb.go=





[quote]

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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rowlandcarson(at)gmail.co
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: where to locate fuel pressure sensor Reply with quote

On 13 Jun 2013, at 10:59, philip george wrote:

Quote:
why not have a purpose made fuel manifold , mounted between and below both carbs with ports drilled for various takeoffs

Philip - thanks, sounds a neat idea. However, I had been concerned about mounting the sensor on the hot vibrating bit (the engine) and the Kitplanes item reinforced my suspicions that it might not contribute to long life for that part.

in friendship

Rowland

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rowlandcarson(at)gmail.co
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: where to locate fuel pressure sensor Reply with quote

On 13 Jun 2013, at 12:13, richard wrote:

Quote:
Philip suggests making a fuel manifold, he probably didn't know that new rotax engines are supplied with just such a manifold, contact Conair for a price also look at the latest installation drawings for a picture.
For what its worth I modified the fuel pipe runs, dispensing with the rubber pipes in favour of proper aircraft aluminium see Mod No 13304

Richard - thanks for your message. I am planning to use aluminium piping (and racing-type steel-reinforced hose in the tunnel & FWF areas). I can't see mod 13304 anywhere on the LAA website yet, either as a prototype or standard mod.

Where could I find the "latest installation drawings"? I had a look at the Europa factory website, but presumably this manifold is so new it hasn't percolated through to the factory's documentation. I'll see if I can find it on some of the Rotax websites.

in friendship

Rowland

| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
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nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: where to locate fuel pressure sensor Reply with quote

Hi Rowland,

Rotax introduced a fuel line mod in 2008. I have attached this FYI.
You should be able to download the latest (August 2012) Rotax 912s
Installation Manual from the Rotax web site. If you have any problems,
contact me off-list and I'll send you a copy. The diagrams you need is
on page four and five in the chapter on "Fuel Systems".

Nigel
On 13/06/2013 23:13, Rowland Carson wrote:
Quote:


On 13 Jun 2013, at 12:13, richard wrote:

> Philip suggests making a fuel manifold, he probably didn't know that new rotax engines are supplied with just such a manifold, contact Conair for a price also look at the latest installation drawings for a picture.
> For what its worth I modified the fuel pipe runs, dispensing with the rubber pipes in favour of proper aircraft aluminium see Mod No 13304
Richard - thanks for your message. I am planning to use aluminium piping (and racing-type steel-reinforced hose in the tunnel & FWF areas). I can't see mod 13304 anywhere on the LAA website yet, either as a prototype or standard mod.

Where could I find the "latest installation drawings"? I had a look at the Europa factory website, but presumably this manifold is so new it hasn't percolated through to the factory's documentation. I'll see if I can find it on some of the Rotax websites.

in friendship

Rowland

| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
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080415-Flexible_Fuel_Lines.pdf
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rowlandcarson(at)gmail.co
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:05 am    Post subject: where to locate fuel pressure sensor Reply with quote

On 13 Jun 2013, at 12:13, richard wrote:

Quote:
new rotax engines are supplied with just such a manifold, contact Conair for a price

Richard - I spoke with Conair and although I wasn't able to identify _all_ the part numbers for the fuel manifold, the total for those I found came to 578.55 sterling so I think I will be seeking cheaper options!

Quote:
For what its worth I modified the fuel pipe runs, dispensing with the rubber pipes in favour of proper aircraft aluminium see Mod No 13304

Where can I find info on Mod 13304? It doesn't appear on the LAA website anywhere I can find. I checked the list of all prototype mods (which only shows up to Mod 12403 for Europas) and the list of Standard Mods for Europas.

in friendship

Rowland

| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
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richard collings



Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 73
Location: warwickshire england

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:31 am    Post subject: where to locate fuel pressure sensor Reply with quote

Hi Rowland
I along with most agree that the eye watering prices charged for Rotax parts
is scandalous but here I am sure you have asked for the wrong part . However
if you would like it I can copy my fuel system layout and send it to you , I
have completed 45hrs to date with no problems, if you do then contact me off
line at rcollings(at)talktalk.net .
Regards Richard

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