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brunk
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 24
Location: Corpus Christi, texas
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 Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:01 pm Post subject: Repair paint cracking around door window opening |
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Anyone have an idea how to repair this condition? What is the door made of,and how do I repair it? Robert Brunkenhoefer N661G KCRP
Sent from my iPad
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:11 pm Post subject: Repair paint cracking around door window opening |
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You're probably seeing the joint between the plastic window and the fiberglass door. The window is usually painted over the first 3/4" or so. Cracks in that area are very common.
The best way to prevent or repair the issue is to remove the paint, then overlay a thin layer of fiberglass almost up to the edge of the window opening. That takes some bodywork and paint but on the doors it shouldn't be too big a deal.
Worse is when the same thing happens around the rear windows and windshield. The repair is the same but depending on your paint scheme, the bodywork and paint may take more effort to make look right. But it's doable, and there probably isn't any rush to get it fixed. I doubt your window is in any danger of departing. If you see the window actually start to lift or move relative to the base material, then it's time to get it fixed.
Hope that helps,
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com (robertbrunk(at)mac.com)> wrote:
[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com (robertbrunk(at)mac.com)>
Anyone have an idea how to repair this condition? What is the door made of,and how do I repair it? Robert Brunkenhoefer N661G KCRP
Sent from my iPad
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t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Lew Gallagher
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:21 pm Post subject: Repair paint cracking around door window opening |
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Hey Robert,
Dave probably has the right answer, but a picture would help to be more
specific. Did you attach a picture that I'm not seeing?
Later, - Lew
do not archive
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:27 pm Post subject: Repair paint cracking around door window opening |
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I agree. It's mainly a cosmetic issue. It's a fairly big job to fix on a painted plane, so I'd recommend leaving it alone unless, as Dave mentioned, you notice it coming loose. The cause of the problem is that the different materials (fiberglass door and polycarbonate window) have different expansion coefficients, so as they heat and cool, they change sizes differently and the seam gets a crack. Same reason the Lycoming and continentals have big piston to cylinder wall clearances and Rotax has 0.0-0.0004" clearance.
Jesse
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 13, 2013, at 10:10 PM, Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]You're probably seeing the joint between the plastic window and the fiberglass door. The window is usually painted over the first 3/4" or so. Cracks in that area are very common.
The best way to prevent or repair the issue is to remove the paint, then overlay a thin layer of fiberglass almost up to the edge of the window opening. That takes some bodywork and paint but on the doors it shouldn't be too big a deal.
Worse is when the same thing happens around the rear windows and windshield. The repair is the same but depending on your paint scheme, the bodywork and paint may take more effort to make look right. But it's doable, and there probably isn't any rush to get it fixed. I doubt your window is in any danger of departing. If you see the window actually start to lift or move relative to the base material, then it's time to get it fixed.
Hope that helps,
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com (robertbrunk(at)mac.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com (robertbrunk(at)mac.com)>
Anyone have an idea how to repair this condition? What is the door made of,and how do I repair it? Robert Brunkenhoefer N661G KCRP
Sent from my iPad
===========
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
===========
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
===================================
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
===================================
cs.com
===================================
matronics.com/contribution
===================================
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[b]
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brunk
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 24
Location: Corpus Christi, texas
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:00 pm Post subject: Repair paint cracking around door window opening |
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It is as described by Jesse. Thanks. I know what to do now. Robert
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 13, 2013, at 9:26 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)> wrote:
[quote]I agree. It's mainly a cosmetic issue. It's a fairly big job to fix on a painted plane, so I'd recommend leaving it alone unless, as Dave mentioned, you notice it coming loose. The cause of the problem is that the different materials (fiberglass door and polycarbonate window) have different expansion coefficients, so as they heat and cool, they change sizes differently and the seam gets a crack. Same reason the Lycoming and continentals have big piston to cylinder wall clearances and Rotax has 0.0-0.0004" clearance.
Jesse
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 13, 2013, at 10:10 PM, Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | You're probably seeing the joint between the plastic window and the fiberglass door. The window is usually painted over the first 3/4" or so. Cracks in that area are very common.
The best way to prevent or repair the issue is to remove the paint, then overlay a thin layer of fiberglass almost up to the edge of the window opening. That takes some bodywork and paint but on the doors it shouldn't be too big a deal.
Worse is when the same thing happens around the rear windows and windshield. The repair is the same but depending on your paint scheme, the bodywork and paint may take more effort to make look right. But it's doable, and there probably isn't any rush to get it fixed. I doubt your window is in any danger of departing. If you see the window actually start to lift or move relative to the base material, then it's time to get it fixed.
Hope that helps,
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com (robertbrunk(at)mac.com)> wrote:
===================================
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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cs.com
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matronics.com/contribution
===================================
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[b]
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:21 pm Post subject: Repair paint cracking around door window opening |
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<<
different materials (fiberglass door and polycarbonate window) have different expansion coefficients >>
oh, it's much worse actually: glass, resin, window, weld-on, filler, primer, paint...all doin' the mambo in close proximity. Add a little oil canning from the window, it's now wonder the joint cracks. Lancair/Columbia/Cessna has an SB for the same issue on their windows as well, same issue.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
[quote][b]
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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:14 am Post subject: Repair paint cracking around door window opening |
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Dave, how has your window installation solution held up over the years? Just curious.
I did the Van's standard with some light wt glass over the edges. You can see the edges but no cracks in the paint yet... they're coming though.
Bill "just flying it" Watson
On 8/13/2013 11:20 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
[quote] <<
different materials (fiberglass door and polycarbonate window) have different expansion coefficients >>
oh, it's much worse actually: glass, resin, window, weld-on, filler, primer, paint...all doin' the mambo in close proximity. Add a little oil canning from the window, it's now wonder the joint cracks. Lancair/Columbia/Cessna has an SB for the same issue on their windows as well, same issue.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
08/13/13 [b]
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:14 am Post subject: Repair paint cracking around door window opening |
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The only issue with my installation is that the SilPruf has gotten a little "chalky" on the surface. It develops kind of a white powdery deposit that kind of looks like oxidation. I can polish it with various Armor-All type cleaners and it cleans up well. It's still very pliable and coherent. I'd do it again, and I'd like to come up with a method for the windshield too. Which might happen sooner rather than later since I've got a TON of little stars in the front plastic.
For the time being I have the overlay on the aft edge of the windshield and it's working fine. We're approaching 1300 hours and 6 years.
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 3:13 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:
[quote] Dave, how has your window installation solution held up over the years? Just curious.
I did the Van's standard with some light wt glass over the edges. You can see the edges but no cracks in the paint yet... they're coming though.
Bill "just flying it" Watson
On 8/13/2013 11:20 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | <<
different materials (fiberglass door and polycarbonate window) have different expansion coefficients >>
oh, it's much worse actually: glass, resin, window, weld-on, filler, primer, paint...all doin' the mambo in close proximity. Add a little oil canning from the window, it's now wonder the joint cracks. Lancair/Columbia/Cessna has an SB for the same issue on their windows as well, same issue.
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
08/13/13
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
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aarongleixner(at)sbcgloba
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:14 am Post subject: Repair paint cracking around door window opening |
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I laid up layers of fiberglass when I built to avoid this issue and had no problems for the first 300 hours. I then installed the aftermarket door latch that draws in the bottom of the door when you close it, and got cracks almost immediately on both doors. I had the painter rework the fiberglass and repaint, and it cracked again in less than 5 hours. My hypothesis is the latch flexes the door when it closes, causing the cracks. My solution will be decals that match the paint scheme at the 4 corners around the windows.
Aaron
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 13, 2013, at 11:20 PM, Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]<<
different materials (fiberglass door and polycarbonate window) have different expansion coefficients >>
oh, it's much worse actually: glass, resin, window, weld-on, filler, primer, paint...all doin' the mambo in close proximity. Add a little oil canning from the window, it's now wonder the joint cracks. Lancair/Columbia/Cessna has an SB for the same issue on their windows as well, same issue.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
| Quote: |
===================================
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===================================
cs.com
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matronics.com/contribution
===================================
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sean(at)braunandco.com
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:47 am Post subject: Repair paint cracking around door window opening |
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Aaron,
The latch will probably flex the door if you have a really tight seal and it is flexing the middle of the door. If your pins still drag a lot even after the cam pulls the door in, the seal is probably too tight. If you have the McMaster Carr seal you should have 1/4” reveal between the inner door skin and the outer edge of the cabin lip. I put a lot of fiberglass tape around my windows and the paint shop sanded them all down too thin. My windows all cracked so I had the paint shop fix it all. 400 hours later I notice the corner of the windshield cracking but no cracks around the other windows. I wonder if the best fix is to keep the gap around the windows unfilled and use tape or just proseal around them.
From: Aaron (aarongleixner(at)sbcglobal.net)
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 9:13 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Repair paint cracking around door window opening
I laid up layers of fiberglass when I built to avoid this issue and had no problems for the first 300 hours. I then installed the aftermarket door latch that draws in the bottom of the door when you close it, and got cracks almost immediately on both doors. I had the painter rework the fiberglass and repaint, and it cracked again in less than 5 hours. My hypothesis is the latch flexes the door when it closes, causing the cracks. My solution will be decals that match the paint scheme at the 4 corners around the windows.
Aaron
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 13, 2013, at 11:20 PM, Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] <<
different materials (fiberglass door and polycarbonate window) have different expansion coefficients >>
oh, it's much worse actually: glass, resin, window, weld-on, filler, primer, paint...all doin' the mambo in close proximity. Add a little oil canning from the window, it's now wonder the joint cracks. Lancair/Columbia/Cessna has an SB for the same issue on their windows as well, same issue.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
| Quote: |
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cs.com
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matronics.com/contribution
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sean(at)braunandco.com
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:52 am Post subject: Repair paint cracking around door window opening |
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One more thought,
I heard someone else state the reason his window starting crazing is the stress forced on the window due to holding it from expanding and contracting with fiberglass.
From: Seano (sean(at)braunandco.com)
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 9:47 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Repair paint cracking around door window opening
Aaron,
The latch will probably flex the door if you have a really tight seal and it is flexing the middle of the door. If your pins still drag a lot even after the cam pulls the door in, the seal is probably too tight. If you have the McMaster Carr seal you should have 1/4” reveal between the inner door skin and the outer edge of the cabin lip. I put a lot of fiberglass tape around my windows and the paint shop sanded them all down too thin. My windows all cracked so I had the paint shop fix it all. 400 hours later I notice the corner of the windshield cracking but no cracks around the other windows. I wonder if the best fix is to keep the gap around the windows unfilled and use tape or just proseal around them.
From: Aaron (aarongleixner(at)sbcglobal.net)
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 9:13 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Repair paint cracking around door window opening
I laid up layers of fiberglass when I built to avoid this issue and had no problems for the first 300 hours. I then installed the aftermarket door latch that draws in the bottom of the door when you close it, and got cracks almost immediately on both doors. I had the painter rework the fiberglass and repaint, and it cracked again in less than 5 hours. My hypothesis is the latch flexes the door when it closes, causing the cracks. My solution will be decals that match the paint scheme at the 4 corners around the windows.
Aaron
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 13, 2013, at 11:20 PM, Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] <<
different materials (fiberglass door and polycarbonate window) have different expansion coefficients >>
oh, it's much worse actually: glass, resin, window, weld-on, filler, primer, paint...all doin' the mambo in close proximity. Add a little oil canning from the window, it's now wonder the joint cracks. Lancair/Columbia/Cessna has an SB for the same issue on their windows as well, same issue.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
| Quote: |
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:28 am Post subject: Repair paint cracking around door window opening |
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Dave. Would Carbon Fiber overlay in the critical corners be a better choice than fiberglass in these locations?
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:20 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Repair paint cracking around door window opening
<<
different materials (fiberglass door and polycarbonate window) have different expansion coefficients
>>
oh, it's much worse actually: glass, resin, window, weld-on, filler, primer, paint...all doin' the mambo in close proximity. Add a little oil canning from the window, it's now wonder the joint cracks. Lancair/Columbia/Cessna has an SB for the same issue on their windows as well, same issue.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:23 pm Post subject: Repair paint cracking around door window opening |
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Carbon might help if the problem is a structure that's too flexible. Then
again a thicker fiberglass cloth could solve that problem too, much cheaper
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aarongleixner(at)sbcgloba
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:13 pm Post subject: Repair paint cracking around door window opening |
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Give me a couple of days to get to the airport and take a look. I think the seals are tight (Van's seals) the door is bending when the bottom gets pulled tight, and the areas around the windows have the least stiffness and bend the most. I'll try to determine if the window or fiberglass are disbonding beneath, but I suspect not. Its just flexing of the composite material.
Aaron
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 14, 2013, at 5:21 PM, Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> wrote:
[quote] Carbon might help if the problem is a structure that's too flexible. Then again a thicker fiberglass cloth could solve that problem too, much cheaper
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