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jkreidler

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 151
Location: Sheboygan Falls WI

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:43 am Post subject: Paint

We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in Wisconsin.  Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat versus a base coat / clear coat system?  In both cases we will use aviation finishes.



Jason

_________________
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:03 am Post subject: Paint

Jason,



It is really a matter or opinion. The 2 finishes are different in appearance, To some people the difference matters and to some it doesn't. So the 1st question is to figure out if the difference matter. I don't believe that there are any differences in how well one protects vs the other. aA lot of that has to do with the painter and the prep. I believe that a base/clear is going to cost more than a single stage for obvious reasons (more labor). The next item would be to find your painter, some painters will only work with single stage paint.  

 

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:43 AM, jkreidler <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com (jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com (jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com)>

  

 We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in Wisconsin.  Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat versus a base coat / clear coat system?  In both cases we will use aviation finishes.

  

 Jason

 

 --------

 Jason Kreidler

 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI

 Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler

 N44YH - Flying - #40617

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Paint

It sounds like you have selected your painter. As Deems said, ask him. He's the one who will have to stand by his work.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:22 am Post subject: Paint

I'm going single stage ..... just look at all the cars on the road with 

clear coat problems.  Done by professional robots. 

However using clear coat does make spot repairs easier and hides base 

coat imperfections.  I'm no expert painter (nor do I play one on TV) but 

I doubt there's much difference between 'aviation' and 'automotive' 

finishes in this day and age.  I do know the present day Imron (used to 

be my favorite) is formulated differently than the old stuff .... thanks 

to the EPA ...... and scratches easier.

Haven't really looked, but I think you'll have far more colors to choose 

from with automotive paint.  I really love the Dodge Viper Red!!!!

Linn



On 8/26/2013 11:43 AM, jkreidler wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in Wisconsin.  Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat versus a base coat / clear coat system?  In both cases we will use aviation finishes.



 Jason



 --------

 Jason Kreidler

 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI

 Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler

 N44YH - Flying - #40617





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507





 -----

 No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:47 am Post subject: Paint

The main issue is the thickness of your wallet.



For multiple colors and complex design, a couple of coats of clear over

everything is the way to go.  For a good paint job that won't break the bank

and is easy to fix, single coat.  On the RV-10 I did three color PPG base

and clear and I worked my ass off.  Then a neighbor did one color single

stage PPG on a Lancair 4 and added vinyl stripes and N numbers.  His plane

was a third the work of the RV-10, looks show plane good and you can't tell

the stripes are vinyl even an inch away. 



Get some quotes from your painter - and if you want any checkers be ready

for a real big number. 



Carl



--

Lew Gallagher

Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:22 am Post subject: Paint

Hey Jason/Linn,



I paint, not an expert.  Base/clear is very slick and provides great 

protection, but is more expensive, heavier, AND harder to touch up, not 

easier.  If you get a chip in base/clear that goes through color, you have 

to match/touch up the base color first, then put the clear back on, then if 

you want it perfect you have to fine sand the clear flat to match and then 

buff.  Single coat, just dab the chip and go -- buff if it needs it.



I have doubts about those who paint multiple colors then clear it all.  As I 

understand it, the early cars with base/clear peeled because the clear 

wasn't applied soon enough after the base was shot.  Now it is recommended 

to clear within  30-40 minutes after base so that it bonds.  Otherwise the 

base color is to be scuffed before clearing -- I've never done that.  You 

see the problem if you have multiple colors.  If multiple colors are shot at 

different times, then cleared days/weeks later -- you could probably get 

away with it if your plane is constantly hangared (the cars that peel don't 

spend most of their lives in a garage -- notice it is the horizontal 

surfaces that peel), but then the single stage paint with "wet look" 

hardener would look just as good and last just as long.



Later, - Lew

_________________
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed !

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:41 am Post subject: Paint

The guy who helped me paint my plane, has a son who was with DuPont

at the time.  He said that Imron actually doesn't seem to fill the gaps 

around

the rivet head to skin seam and flow in there as well as some other paints.

Tim

do not archive

On 8/26/2013 12:21 PM, Linn Walters wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 I'm going single stage ..... just look at all the cars on the road 

 with clear coat problems.  Done by professional robots. 

 However using clear coat does make spot repairs easier and hides base 

 coat imperfections.  I'm no expert painter (nor do I play one on TV) 

 but I doubt there's much difference between 'aviation' and 

 'automotive' finishes in this day and age.  I do know the present day 

 Imron (used to be my favorite) is formulated differently than the old 

 stuff .... thanks to the EPA ...... and scratches easier.

 Haven't really looked, but I think you'll have far more colors to 

 choose from with automotive paint.  I really love the Dodge Viper Red!!!!

 Linn

 On 8/26/2013 11:43 AM, jkreidler wrote:

> 

> <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com>

>

> We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in 

> Wisconsin.  Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat 

> versus a base coat / clear coat system?  In both cases we will use 

> aviation finishes.

>

> Jason

>

> --------

> Jason Kreidler

> 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI

> Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler

> N44YH - Flying - #40617

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507

>

>

> -----

> No virus found in this message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:22 am Post subject: Paint

Lew is correct on minding times.  With PPG you have 24 hours from base to

clear coat (tech sheet attached as example).  On my plane I did paint with

wings off, control surfaces and tail feathers removed.  This piecemeal

approach enabled me to manage times so I could always get the clear coat on

in the allotted time.  Simple jigs to hold the wings so they can be rotated

for paint greatly simplified the work.



I also agree with Lew on the merits of single coat.



Carl



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jkreidler

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 151
Location: Sheboygan Falls WI

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Paint

I wonder if that is why Imron comes in a formula made for riveted airplanes (AF400), they also have a version (AF3500) which they claim is more Skydrol resistant.  I am not sure how long the AF400 formula has been around, maybe in response to your comment.  Both single stage top coats - sometimes I enjoy speculating....



Our painter is an Imron guy who prefers single stage, but will do clear coats for the money.  His feedback mirrors some of what has been said here.



- Jason



[quote="Tim Olson"]The guy who helped me paint my plane, has a son who was with DuPont

at the time.  He said that Imron actually doesn't seem to fill the gaps 

around

the rivet head to skin seam and flow in there as well as some other paints.



Tim

do not archive

_________________
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617

robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:39 am Post subject: Paint

We can all knock the EPA if we want but those are the same people that got rid of DDT, Benzene Hexachloride & Ethyl Mercury Chloride etc.... What pricks, now our kids are born with both their arms & legs. But don't worry industry still has power to grow our strawberries in Ethylene Dibromide. I mean how bad can something like that be for the environment? As much as I prefer high VOC paints and the smell of fresh mimeograph paper I also like drinking water that you can actually drink.



Robin 

Do Not Archive



--

wgreenley

Joined: 09 Jan 2010
Posts: 100
Location: Dowagiac, MI

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:23 pm Post subject: Paint

Sorry, I know this is off topic. But getting rid of DDT killed a million

people a year. I worked in Africa and malaria was almost history, it came

roaring back with tragic consequences I saw in my hospital on a daily basis.

If used properly it was safe and inexpensive, the first world could afford

more expensive alternatives, but the third world could not. I agree that DDT

was dangerous to the environment if misused, but that is true of many

products. 



Bill Greenley



--

michaelrorth

Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 65

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:18 pm Post subject: Paint

Hear!  Hear!

Many Greenies are extremely under-educated.

Thanks for the truth.



One amplification, though.

Not only has the lack of DDT resulted in the deaths of millions in the past, 

the deaths continue today.

This is why the mosquito is often referred to as "the deadliest animal on 

earth".

Michael



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:34 pm Post subject: Paint

I did my own paint and used a single stage Imron against the advice of a 

few local, non aircraft paint shops.  I think I made the right decision.



For the DIY painter, single stage is less work.  But fixing mistakes can 

be harder.  The paint pros explained that you can just sand out 2 stage 

mistakes and cover everything with clear coat for the A1 final finish.  

I see how 2 stage is required for a show winning finish but the single 

stage stuff is really nice. Get a nice flake color for your '10 in 

single stage and I think you'll be very happy.  If your shop recommends 

it, then I know you'll be happy if they are any good at all.



My advice for the DIY painter is to find a local paint distributor you 

want to work with and shoot one of the brands and lines that he 

carries.  I started with the idea of using aviation lines from Dupont or 

PPG, but I ended up with a non-aviation line of Imron single stage 

because the distributor was closer to me than the PPG shop.   And only a 

few places deal in the aviation lines. That turned out to be an inspired 

decision.  I made almost daily trips there during my paint process - 

prices were good and while the advice was limited it was  valuable for 

this first time painter.



My guess is that that advice can be applied to paint selection by a 

paint shop - use what they like to use.  I think skills are surprisingly 

product specific.  Paints/coatings is very high tech stuff.  Experience 

and manufacturers technical support are invaluable.



Re regulations and their impact on paint; seems like almost everyone I 

met at the local paint depot, who had been shooting polyurethanes over 

the last decade was impaired.  The guy who ran the place admitted that 

he was impaired, not that it wasn't apparent.  His paint booth had sat 

idle for many years as a result.  Many of his customers were impaired - 

it only took a short conversation to experience the impairment.  Very 

scary indeed.



The modern polyurethane paints are fantastic - single or 2 stage - but 

toxic as hell.  Fresh air breather mandatory.  My objective for each 

mix, shoot and cure was to never even catch a whiff of it.  I mostly 

succeeded.  I had befriended a neighbor who ran a local paint shop 

specializing in trucks, RVs and other big things.  They were painting 

the hull of a big sailing ship which was too big for even their oversize 

booths.  They shot it outside and I came by to watch along with a few 

others.  I quickly ran out of there when I realized I was getting more 

exposure to Imron single stage standing 100 feet away than I was going 

to get in my own shop.  I'm scared of the stuff.  It's very bad.



Aviation or non-aviation paints?  For our purposes, I don't think it 

matters.  I have no intention of dousing the plane in Skydrol. Rain is 

like sandpaper at 400knots but even in a dive, I just can't flog the 

horses that hard.  100knot rain erodes the old lacquers but good quality 

poly seems impervious to 200knot rain. I think the sweet spot is a top 

of the line Dupont Imron or PPG non-aviation paint.  The lower priced 

automotive lines are less durable but the industrial grade top of the 

line stuff is "EAB aviation certified" in my unqualified opinion and 

just a little cheaper than the aviation lines - and certainly more 

available for the DIY painter.



Bill "I didn't plan to paint but it turned out to be one of the most 

enjoyable challenges of the build" Watson

On 8/26/2013 11:43 AM, jkreidler wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in Wisconsin.  Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat versus a base coat / clear coat system?  In both cases we will use aviation finishes.



 Jason



 --------

 Jason Kreidler

 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI

 Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler

 N44YH - Flying - #40617





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507





 -----

 No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

jkreidler

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 151
Location: Sheboygan Falls WI

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Paint

I am not sure I would ever call anyone on this forum under-educated, much less throw that response at a single individual.  Not what I come to this forum for and I think I can safely say I speak for more than myself.  I appreciate the information, not the insults.



 	  michaelrorth wrote: 	
		  Hear!  Hear!

Many Greenies are extremely under-educated.

Thanks for the truth.



One amplification, though.

Not only has the lack of DDT resulted in the deaths of millions in the past, 

the deaths continue today.

This is why the mosquito is often referred to as "the deadliest animal on 

earth".

Michael



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--

_________________
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617

robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:46 pm Post subject: Paint

This is extremely under-educated me not taking the bait...



Robin

Do Not Archive



--

jkreidler

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 151
Location: Sheboygan Falls WI

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Paint

Thanks Bill, I wish I had a place to spray.  I think after doing the entire build to get to the end and say I am not capable of painting is a bit deflating, after all the best thing about the process is the education and experience.  Thanks for the feedback.  - Jason



 	  Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com wrote: 	
		  I did my own paint and used a single stage Imron against the advice of a 

few local, non aircraft paint shops.  I think I made the right decision.



For the DIY painter, single stage is less work.  But fixing mistakes can 

be harder.  The paint pros explained that you can just sand out 2 stage 

mistakes and cover everything with clear coat for the A1 final finish.  

I see how 2 stage is required for a show winning finish but the single 

stage stuff is really nice. Get a nice flake color for your '10 in 

single stage and I think you'll be very happy.  If your shop recommends 

it, then I know you'll be happy if they are any good at all.



My advice for the DIY painter is to find a local paint distributor you 

want to work with and shoot one of the brands and lines that he 

carries.  I started with the idea of using aviation lines from Dupont or 

PPG, but I ended up with a non-aviation line of Imron single stage 

because the distributor was closer to me than the PPG shop.   And only a 

few places deal in the aviation lines. That turned out to be an inspired 

decision.  I made almost daily trips there during my paint process - 

prices were good and while the advice was limited it was  valuable for 

this first time painter.



My guess is that that advice can be applied to paint selection by a 

paint shop - use what they like to use.  I think skills are surprisingly 

product specific.  Paints/coatings is very high tech stuff.  Experience 

and manufacturers technical support are invaluable.



Re regulations and their impact on paint; seems like almost everyone I 

met at the local paint depot, who had been shooting polyurethanes over 

the last decade was impaired.  The guy who ran the place admitted that 

he was impaired, not that it wasn't apparent.  His paint booth had sat 

idle for many years as a result.  Many of his customers were impaired - 

it only took a short conversation to experience the impairment.  Very 

scary indeed.



The modern polyurethane paints are fantastic - single or 2 stage - but 

toxic as hell.  Fresh air breather mandatory.  My objective for each 

mix, shoot and cure was to never even catch a whiff of it.  I mostly 

succeeded.  I had befriended a neighbor who ran a local paint shop 

specializing in trucks, RVs and other big things.  They were painting 

the hull of a big sailing ship which was too big for even their oversize 

booths.  They shot it outside and I came by to watch along with a few 

others.  I quickly ran out of there when I realized I was getting more 

exposure to Imron single stage standing 100 feet away than I was going 

to get in my own shop.  I'm scared of the stuff.  It's very bad.



Aviation or non-aviation paints?  For our purposes, I don't think it 

matters.  I have no intention of dousing the plane in Skydrol. Rain is 

like sandpaper at 400knots but even in a dive, I just can't flog the 

horses that hard.  100knot rain erodes the old lacquers but good quality 

poly seems impervious to 200knot rain. I think the sweet spot is a top 

of the line Dupont Imron or PPG non-aviation paint.  The lower priced 

automotive lines are less durable but the industrial grade top of the 

line stuff is "EAB aviation certified" in my unqualified opinion and 

just a little cheaper than the aviation lines - and certainly more 

available for the DIY painter.



Bill "I didn't plan to paint but it turned out to be one of the most 

enjoyable challenges of the build" Watson

On 8/26/2013 11:43 AM, jkreidler wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in Wisconsin.  Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat versus a base coat / clear coat system?  In both cases we will use aviation finishes.



 Jason



 --------

 Jason Kreidler

 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI

 Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler

 N44YH - Flying - #40617





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507





 -----

 No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

_________________
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:38 pm Post subject: Paint

On 8/26/2013 6:48 PM, jkreidler wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks Bill, I wish I had a place to spray.  I think after doing the entire build to get to the end and say I am not capable of painting is a bit deflating, after all the best thing about the process is the education and experience.  Thanks for the feedback.  - Jason

If you have a place to build then I think you have a place to paint.
	


This is what works for me. YMMV.

I made a 'tent' from 1/2" EMT and sheet plastic.  My first booth was 9' 

X 9' X 20'.  I use PVC fittings to attach the EMT together. Cut schedule 

80 'rings and cut the side so it makes a 'c' tube and slip them in the 

PVC fittings to hold the EMT.  I used the large 'butterfly clips' to 

hold the plastic to the EMT.  The 9' was because I could only get 10' 

wide plastic at the time.  There is 20' wide available now.  A large 

squirrel cage fan exhausted outside and fiberfill on the other end was 

my filter.  I paid good money for a paint mask because (at the time) the 

fresh air hose was too cumbersome.  Hang lots of flourescent fixtures so 

you get plenty of light.  I get good results (remember I'm not a 

professional painter) with a HF HVLP gun.



I use a leaf blower to clean the dust out and wet down the floor before 

I move the parts in and spray.



I also add some extra reducer to thin the paint, spray a light cross 

coat, wait 1/2 hour and spray another light cross coat.  Repeat until I 

get good coverage and then quit.  I wait 2 hours and then pull off any 

masking paper/tape.  I only use blue and green 3M tape.



For me, there is one really hard part.  When you get finished with your 

'wet coat(s)' and still have paint in the pot ..... throw it out and 

clean up the gun.  It's just so hard for me to pitch all those $$$ in my 

paint recovery can.  My paint recovery can is a coffee can that all the 

excess paint, reducer, etc. ends up in.  It goes to the hazardous waste 

collector along with the empty paint cans.



Good, thorough, prep will make a world of difference in the final 

paint.  Poor prep and a professional painter will still get you a poor 

paint job.  IMHO!!!



Linn

michaelrorth

Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 65

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:36 am Post subject: Paint

Mr. Kreidler,



If your name is "Many Greenies" I apologize for insulting you.

If your name is NOT "Many Greenies", I stand by my original post.



Never forget:

50% of Greenies are, by definition, below average.



Michael



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--

arplnplt(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:24 am Post subject: Paint

Jason,



Having been in the car wash/auto detailing business for almost 30 years I can tell you I am very happy with the imron Watertown put on my plane.  The stuff seems to be very tough.  95% of auto vehicles we detail have clear coat and it is very soft in my opinion.  It is easy to polish out light scratches and blemishes, but clear coat also is very prone to them whenever you touch it.  Clear coat in my opinion is like the plastic lens over your speedometer.

I have about 250 hours on my plane now and detail it often with a non-polish, spray on liquid detailing wax.  Takes all the bugs off easily, cleans the plane and I have yet to see any wash rash in the paint.  Normal automotive clear coat on the other hand would require a polish type wax to keep it shiny.



Dave Leikam



On Aug 26, 2013, at 5:48 PM, jkreidler <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Thanks Bill, I wish I had a place to spray.  I think after doing the entire build to get to the end and say I am not capable of painting is a bit deflating, after all the best thing about the process is the education and experience.  Thanks for the feedback.  - Jason

 

 

 Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com wrote:

> I did my own paint and used a single stage Imron against the advice of a 

> few local, non aircraft paint shops.  I think I made the right decision.

> 

> For the DIY painter, single stage is less work.  But fixing mistakes can 

> be harder.  The paint pros explained that you can just sand out 2 stage 

> mistakes and cover everything with clear coat for the A1 final finish.  

> I see how 2 stage is required for a show winning finish but the single 

> stage stuff is really nice. Get a nice flake color for your '10 in 

> single stage and I think you'll be very happy.  If your shop recommends 

> it, then I know you'll be happy if they are any good at all.

> 

> My advice for the DIY painter is to find a local paint distributor you 

> want to work with and shoot one of the brands and lines that he 

> carries.  I started with the idea of using aviation lines from Dupont or 

> PPG, but I ended up with a non-aviation line of Imron single stage 

> because the distributor was closer to me than the PPG shop.   And only a 

> few places deal in the aviation lines. That turned out to be an inspired 

> decision.  I made almost daily trips there during my paint process - 

> prices were good and while the advice was limited it was  valuable for 

> this first time painter.

> 

> My guess is that that advice can be applied to paint selection by a 

> paint shop - use what they like to use.  I think skills are surprisingly 

> product specific.  Paints/coatings is very high tech stuff.  Experience 

> and manufacturers technical support are invaluable.

> 

> Re regulations and their impact on paint; seems like almost everyone I 

> met at the local paint depot, who had been shooting polyurethanes over 

> the last decade was impaired.  The guy who ran the place admitted that 

> he was impaired, not that it wasn't apparent.  His paint booth had sat 

> idle for many years as a result.  Many of his customers were impaired - 

> it only took a short conversation to experience the impairment.  Very 

> scary indeed.

> 

> The modern polyurethane paints are fantastic - single or 2 stage - but 

> toxic as hell.  Fresh air breather mandatory.  My objective for each 

> mix, shoot and cure was to never even catch a whiff of it.  I mostly 

> succeeded.  I had befriended a neighbor who ran a local paint shop 

> specializing in trucks, RVs and other big things.  They were painting 

> the hull of a big sailing ship which was too big for even their oversize 

> booths.  They shot it outside and I came by to watch along with a few 

> others.  I quickly ran out of there when I realized I was getting more 

> exposure to Imron single stage standing 100 feet away than I was going 

> to get in my own shop.  I'm scared of the stuff.  It's very bad.

> 

> Aviation or non-aviation paints?  For our purposes, I don't think it 

> matters.  I have no intention of dousing the plane in Skydrol. Rain is 

> like sandpaper at 400knots but even in a dive, I just can't flog the 

> horses that hard.  100knot rain erodes the old lacquers but good quality 

> poly seems impervious to 200knot rain. I think the sweet spot is a top 

> of the line Dupont Imron or PPG non-aviation paint.  The lower priced 

> automotive lines are less durable but the industrial grade top of the 

> line stuff is "EAB aviation certified" in my unqualified opinion and 

> just a little cheaper than the aviation lines - and certainly more 

> available for the DIY painter.

> 

> Bill "I didn't plan to paint but it turned out to be one of the most 

> enjoyable challenges of the build" Watson

> 

> 

> On 8/26/2013 11:43 AM, jkreidler wrote:

> 

>> 

>> 

>> We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in Wisconsin.  Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat versus a base coat / clear coat system?  In both cases we will use aviation finishes.

>> 

>> Jason

>> 

>> --------

>> Jason Kreidler

>> 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI

>> Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler

>> N44YH - Flying - #40617

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Read this topic online here:

>> 

>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> -----

>> No virus found in this message.

>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> 

 

 

 --------

 Jason Kreidler

 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI

 Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler

 N44YH - Flying - #40617

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407542#407542

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