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Nanchang CJ 6 canopy
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altman51

Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Savannah, GA

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:25 pm Post subject: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

Hey, I have a Nanchang CJ6 and will be putting on new canopies. Anybody out there that has done this please share your experience. How did yo handle the rivets and what kind of sealant did you use?

keithmckinley

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

I did my rear canopy a couple years ago (2 piece). It was a bit of work but I made a simple jig to reinstall. Lots of test fitting,  trimming, masking and careful drilling. Some basics:



1.you need a belt sander set up on a table (vice) to shape and grind the canopy to fit

2.I did not use sealant but a rubberized tape strip

3.I disassembled everything and had all parts powder coated except the actual canopy frame which I painted. Primed first, then painted inside, installed glass then painted outside.

4. no rivets, replaced all with screws

5. used all new 8-32 screws, the 4mm specialty nuts (if you re-use) tap out nicely. The heads on the us 8-32 screws are not quite the same taper as the chinese 4mm but there is no issue.

5. buy a plexiglass drill bit and oversize the holes. Also grind a taper in them.

6. do not wreck your old canopy! use it for measurement for the new glass



As I recall, my rear canopy took me about 40 hours without the painting.



Good luck

altman51

Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Savannah, GA

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:56 am Post subject: Re: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

Thanks Keith that is very helpful information...

GeorgeCoy

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:31 am Post subject: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

When we do the YAK Canopies, we place them on a table and nail a wooden

frame to match the outside of the frame. ( A jig). We also make a swinging

lever at the front to insure that the frame is square. Then take apart. DO

your restoration then fit the glass and put it back in the frame to do the

riveting. Do a few rivets and then put it airframe to check the fit. Then

back in the frame for the rest of the rivets. 



George

--

barryhancock

Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 285

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

We have a jig for the Malcom Hood front slider.  It is terrific for building new frames.  We would be happy to sell it at this point since we no longer operate a restoration shop.  If someone is interested, please contact me directly.



Obviously when you are drilling the holes you have to be very careful, drill slowly, and make the hole oversize to allow for temperature variation.  



We offer complete sets of new canopies in clear, tint, and UV tint, including the Malcom Hood front slider (gives you about 3" additional height and much better overall visibility), and our WW exclusive one piece rear canopy.



Happy Flying,



Barry

_________________
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com

keithmckinley

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

You can make a simple jig yourself on a plywood bench. I disagree with putting rivets back in unless you can get soft rivets and a rivet squeezer to control the pressure (at least on a CJ). With the right size screws and low profile nylon insert nuts there is nothing in the way or anything to catch on. I'll be happy to send you pics of mine when I get back to the hangar. just give me an email.

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:28 pm Post subject: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

There is only one area on the CJ canopy where you have to use rivets.  That 

is the aft end fairing of the front slider.  All other rivets should be 

replaced with 4-440 flush head screws and AN365 nuts.

You MUST use AN426A rivets.  These are pure aluminum.  The standard aircraft 

rivet (flush head) is the AN426AD.  These are alum. alloy and much too hard 

for this application.

Even with the "A" rivet I manufacture bushings from  3/16" 5052 tubing 1/32" 

longer than the Plexiglas thickness to carry the rivet load.   And 

definitely use a rivet squeeze!



For a nice job you should re-counter sink the original rivet holes to 100 

degs. from the original 110 degs. for both the new rivets and 4-440 screws.



Holes in the glass should be 1/8" larger in dia. than the screw or rivet 

bushing dia. which will allow some leeway for a mis-aligned hole.  The 

fastener should not come into contact with the glass.



This may sound like blasphemy but I do not re-grind drill bits or use a 

special bit.  The largest drill bit I use is a new 1/8" (or #30) to drill 

the pilot holes.  All drilling after that is with a Uni-Bit step drill which 

will produce perfect holes with a chamfered edge.  Note that it must be a 

"Uni-Bit" - A single cutting edge.



Walt



--

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:58 am Post subject: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

Kieth,

Thanks. Will start that project after Labor Day. At beach (PCN) getting attitude adjustment.

Ck 6,

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On Aug 23, 2013, at 9:16 PM, "keithmckinley" <cetopfed(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I did my rear canopy a couple years ago (2 piece). It was a bit of work but I made a simple jig to reinstall. Lots of test fitting,  trimming, masking and careful drilling. Some basics:

 

 1.you need a belt sander set up on a table (vice) to shape and grind the canopy to fit

 2.I did not use sealant but a rubberized tape strip

 3.I disassembled everything and had all parts powder coated except the actual canopy frame which I painted. Primed first, then painted inside, installed glass then painted outside.

 4. no rivets, replaced all with screws

 5. used all new 8-32 screws, the 4mm specialty nuts (if you re-use) tap out nicely. The heads on the us 8-32 screws are not quite the same taper as the chinese 4mm but there is no issue.

 5. buy a plexiglass drill bit and oversize the holes. Also grind a taper in them.

 6. do not wreck your old canopy! use it for measurement for the new glass

 

 As I recall, my rear canopy took me about 40 hours without the painting.

 

 Good luck

 

 --------

 Keith McKinley

 700HS

 X26 Sebastian, FL

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407397#407397

keithmckinley

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

Walt,



Thanks for that tip, I should have it made it more clear that the rivet issue or lack there of was for the rear canopy. I have attached a sheet from LP Aero that has some tips. I would definitely invest in special drills for the plexiglass. A small one to make pilot holes and the size you desire for the holes. 



See attachment: canopy_installation_tips

canopy_installation_tips.pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

canopy_installation_tips.pdf

Filesize:

82.66 KB

Downloaded:

636 Time(s)

keithmckinley

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

I used this material as a gasket:



http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MQ5U8Y/ref=asc_df_B000MQ5U8Y2604494?smid=A2VNERJJQ7ERIT&tag=nextagusmp0402681-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B000MQ5U8Y

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:37 am Post subject: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

Keith;



Thanks - After four CJ6, Two Beech 35, Two Navion , One Bell47  and other 

canopy installations I will be sure to change my process so I can begin to 

crack expensive (customer's) plexiglas.  I too use LP Aero materials

-they are well made.



Walt



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:17 am Post subject: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

The instructions you referenced Keith differ somewhat from what Walt

recommends.  While there are some similarities, Walt's recommendations

are ones that I have seen from other folks who are also very experienced

in how to work with Plexiglas.  



I believe that personal experience tends to trump reference articles,

and I believe that was all Walt was saying.  



Just my 2 cents. 



Mark

--

keithmckinley

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

Walt, 



I addressed a post to you and was thanking you for your tips. I did not mean to tell you to invest in a different drilling process. Instead that comment about drill bits was intended for the general audience. I should have made that clear. A guy that hasn't done a million canopies may want to use the method  LP Aero suggest. I did and had excellent results. I have no doubt your method meets or exceeds that standard. It's no wonder nobody dares post on this site.



Sorry if I hurt your feelings.



Keith

 	  wlannon(at)shaw.ca wrote: 	
		  Keith;



Thanks - After four CJ6, Two Beech 35, Two Navion , One Bell47  and other 

canopy installations I will be sure to change my process so I can begin to 

crack expensive (customer's) plexiglas.  I too use LP Aero materials

-they are well made.



Walt



--

keithmckinley

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

Mark,



I have no problem with that, non at all. God knows I'm no expert. I just know what worked for me. What I don't appreciate is a condescending cheap shot from behind a keyboard.

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:09 am Post subject: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

I don't have a dog in this fight.  In fact, I don't even own a dog.  



Mark



p.s. I will never drill a windscreen or canopy as I am simply terrible

with that kind of stuff.  A case of knowing one's own limitations. 



--

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:17 am Post subject: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

That's one remark that is right on spot: "no wonder nobody dares post on

this site".

And I can assure you that people whose native language happens to be

something else than English hesitate even more.

Jan

On 26/08/13 20:26, "keithmckinley" <cetopfed(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

Walt, 

I addressed a post to you and was thanking you for your tips. I did not

mean to tell you to invest in a different drilling process. Instead that

comment about drill bits was intended for the general audience. I should

have made that clear. A guy that hasn't done a million canopies may want

to use the method  LP Aero suggest. I did and had excellent results. I

have no doubt your method meets or exceeds that standard. It's no wonder

nobody dares post on this site.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

Keith

wlannon(at)shaw.ca wrote:

> Keith;

> 

> Thanks - After four CJ6, Two Beech 35, Two Navion , One Bell47  and

>other 

> canopy installations I will be sure to change my process so I can begin

>to 

> crack expensive (customer's) plexiglas.  I too use LP Aero materials

> -they are well made.

> 

> Walt

> 

> --

--------

Keith McKinley

700HS

X26 Sebastian, FL

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407523#407523

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:39 pm Post subject: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

That is the trouble with e-mail.  In human communication 50% (by  actual research) is visual body language.  One can't see when someone has  their tongue in their cheek.  ;-}

 Pappy 

  In a message dated 8/26/2013 3:18:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  jan.mevis(at)informavia.be writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: Jan Mevis    <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be>

That's one remark that is right on    spot: "no wonder nobody dares post on

this site".

And I can assure you    that people whose native language happens to be

something else than English    hesitate even more.

Jan

On 26/08/13 20:26, "keithmckinley"    <cetopfed(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted    by: "keithmckinley" <cetopfed(at)gmail.com>

Walt,    

I addressed a post to you and was thanking you for your tips.    I did not

mean to tell you to invest in a different drilling process.    Instead that

comment about drill bits was intended for the general    audience. I should

have made that clear. A guy that hasn't done a    million canopies may want

to use the method  LP Aero suggest. I    did and had excellent results. I

have no doubt your method meets or    exceeds that standard. It's no wonder

nobody dares post on this    site.

Sorry if I hurt your    feelings.

Keith

wlannon(at)shaw.ca    wrote:

> Keith;

> 

> Thanks - After four CJ6,    Two Beech 35, Two Navion , One Bell47  and

>other 

>    canopy installations I will be sure to change my process so I can    begin

>to 

> crack expensive (customer's) plexiglas.     I too use LP Aero materials

> -they are well made.

>    

> Walt

> 

>    --

--------

Keith    McKinley

700HS

X26 Sebastian,    FL

Read this topic online    here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407523#407523

    ies  ay                 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS               - List Contribution Web Site  p;                             

 [quote][b]

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:47 pm Post subject: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

Keith;



Just saw all the reaction to my post.   I only see email in the AM and after 

work - no I phone or anything like that.



I took your comments to mean you were in fact telling me to use another 

process.  If that was not the case then you have my apology.

You are right - no one dares post here and I usually refrain from posting 

professional advice precisely because of that reaction.

I will not be offering any in future.



Walt



--

keithmckinley

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

I wouldn't TELL anyone to do anything on this forum, especially someone I have asked for help from in the past. 



No worries.

cd001633(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:46 pm Post subject: Nanchang CJ 6 canopy

Now, wait a minute Walt...



You and a few others are very knowledgeable and bring serious value to this

List - I appeal to you to reconsider refraining from further contributing to

this List.



I believe Pappy's comments regarding the limitation of E-mails in conveying

the true spirit and intention of the text is very true.  The lack of voice

tone and eye contact is one of the major shortcomings of the E-mail concept

making it very easy to miss the intention (tonality, if you will) of the

written text.



This has happened to me too, several times, both in sending a message that

was misunderstood and misunderstanding a message sent to me...



In reading this evening's latest posts, it is obvious to me at least, that

there was no ill intent with neither one of you - let's agree to continue to

operate within the limitation of the e-mail system and continue to

contribute - we need you and others like you to stay and help the rest of

us, especially newbies who both you and I once were...



I hope you will consider the above,



Sam Sax

Miami, FL



--

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