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Fuel filters

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pete(at)lawless.info
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:08 am Post subject: Fuel filters

Hi John



I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them.  In the first

few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed cleaning every

5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 hours

caused fuel starvation on the climb out.  Then less frequently cleaning

until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours the filter now

need a clean about every 50 hours.



My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, as

per the original Classic layout.  I inspect them BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT.  The

beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is going on, all that

is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look.  Cleaning is very easy

you just change the filter screen for a new one and wipe the inside of the

glass. 



I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect

without taking it to bits.



Pete

Classic #109 Rotax 912UL



--

carl(at)flyers.freeserve.
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:21 am Post subject: Fuel filters

Hi All,



I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial

shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but it's

definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system before

assuming everything is clean.



If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be

addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do their

job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put in our

tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps). 



In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some

builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of crud

which should never have been there in the first place - I do not believe

that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this particular

issue.



Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator setup

instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit builders one

available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the LAA yesterday and

they are selling for £60) . The beauty of the setup is that any large lumps

of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and

will be drained off when you do your do your daily fuel checks - very little

muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the bowl (this is a 120 micron

screen). 



We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on

filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs of a

clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate their own

debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off and if not

filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered.



For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be

possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be dropped

down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any external

sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation.



Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a visual

warning  of low pressure due to a filter blockage.  



Carl Pattinson

G-LABS



--

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:03 am Post subject: Fuel filters

Carl and the rest of you who are interested in 

this topic,



I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful 

several times (I had heard warnings!). I pumped 

through the system at least 300 liters of fuel 

before first flight.



Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full 

power during cruise and my Rotax went silent 

immediately. Fuel pressure went down. Over 

mountaineous forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki 

Laukkanen, a famous test pilot (google!). We 

looked each others and I elected to switch 

electric pump on AND changed to reserve tank (and 

to another fuel filter also - how genious is that 

fuel system - there is always a clean filter 

waiting!). That was an autonomious reflex only. 

Rotax fired up immediately.



Jyrki said later please never apply full power 

with a new construction or after a major service 

if you are not above airfield! That makes sense. 

He also said he is alive because after every 

service or repair he had had a habit to fly at 

least 15 minutes over the field before heading to 

somewhere. He had completed 9 forced landings and 

all over the runways, all succesful and all 

because of service failure or service mistake. 

That has happened during his career say 50 years.



My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally 

blocked by small particles looking gold but they 

were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes. 

My guess was they (those particles) were "glued" 

to the tank inside surfaces by static forces.



That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY 

flight. Flight by flight it seemed to be cleaner 

and cleaner.



Today I check my filters say after every 10 

hours - always clean.



When refueling I have only two alternatives:



1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield. 

Systems are aircraft quality, classified and 

certified, filtered and water-isolated.



2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol 

stations w as good brand as possible direct to MY 

canisters through Mr. Mc Funnel´s debris /water 

isolator.



Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any 

more fuel problems.



I never clean my filters. I change them for new 

ones once a year (after 50-100 hrs service).



I do not use those original puzzle filters w 

several parts and glass tube.



One was broken during towing action and one was 

broken by itself in the hangar.



I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway 

models - transparent - one piece - plastic non 

glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong 

way - cheap - unbreakable.



Sold? How many you want?



Cheers,



Raimo Toivio

FINLAND

OH-XRT

-----Alkuperäinen viesti----- 

From: Carl Pattinson

Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Fuel filters




Pattinson" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk>



Hi All,



I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked 

filters after the initial

shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out 

tanks after build but it's

definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel 

through the system before

assuming everything is clean.



If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an 

issue that should be

addressed first rather instead of relying on the 

fuel filters to do their

job. I accept that some of us have less control 

over what we put in our

tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel 

at the airfield pumps).



In the early days I recall that clogged filters 

were an issue for some

builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by 

large amounts of crud

which should never have been there in the first 

place - I do not believe

that changing the size of the filter mesh would 

address this particular

issue.



Personally I never liked the factory system and 

opted for a gascolator setup

instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the 

cheap kit builders one

available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced 

one at the LAA yesterday and

they are selling for £60) . The beauty of the 

setup is that any large lumps

of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of 

the gascolator bowl and

will be drained off when you do your do your daily 

fuel checks - very little

muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the 

bowl (this is a 120 micron

screen).



We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans 

which we insist on

filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have 

never found any signs of a

clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel 

cans generate their own

debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to 

flake off and if not

filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered.



For those who have to rely on airfield based 

supplies if it should be

possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon 

mesh) which could be dropped

down the fuel filler opening to ensure the 

cleanliness of any external

sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent 

installation.



Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge 

which would give a visual

warning  of low pressure due to a filter blockage.



Carl Pattinson

G-LABS



--

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:29 pm Post subject: Fuel filters

Hi! Raimo/all

You make an interesting statement with regards to switching to the reserve

tank and got a clean filter to start up with , however I think you should

remember that on a much used aircraft the filling system always delivers

"the new shit " into the reserve side of the saddle tank and with the best

will in the world it is likely to always store water contamination in a

greater proportion than that on the main delivery side, so don't expect that

the reserve switch will always be your salvation!  The water drain valves

need to be often tested on both sides . I did away with the standard glass

Europa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair gascolator filters one for each

saddle tank side.

After an overnight stay in pouring rain I took about half a litre of water

from the reserve drain valve which I believe went into the tank through the

locking fuel cap so I try to tape up the entire filler cap when in rain .

This incident was at Zelam See (?and I don't think it was from their refuel

facility but who knows?

Best regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 total airframe hours in excess of

1000.



--

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:48 pm Post subject: Fuel filters

Bob

good to see you at the show. 

I have seen water leak into the tank from overnight rain.

through the plastic fuel tank cap that many Europas have. Difficult to adjust when

they get corroded and the hut rusts up. Also the size of the O ring is imprtant.

Graham





        From: Bob Harrison <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2013, 21:29

 Subject: RE: Fuel filters

  

 

--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk (ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk)>



Hi! Raimo/all

You make an interesting statement with regards to switching to the reserve

tank and got a clean filter to start up with , however I think you should

remember that on a much used aircraft the filling system always delivers

"the new shit " into the reserve side of the saddle tank and with the best

will in the world it is likely to always store water contamination in a

greater proportion than that on the main delivery side, so don't expect that

the reserve switch will always be your salvation!  The water drain valves

need to be often tested on both sides . I did away with the standard glass

Europa issue filters and use TWO mini  Andair gascolator filters one for each

saddle tank side.

After an overnight stay in pouring rain I took about half a litre of water

from the reserve drain valve which I believe went into the tank through the

locking fuel cap so I try to tape up the entire filler cap when in rain .

This incident was at Zelam See (?and I don't think it was from their refuel

facility but who knows?

Best regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 total airframe hours in excess of

1000.



--

kjburns(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:56 pm Post subject: Fuel filters

Bob,

You are correct a saddle tank type reserve will build up water in the bottom if you take no preventative actions, as you suggest water drain valves,(with the aircraft levelled to remove more water, but I would suggest that the only way to know if the engine will run on that tank (filter / pipe/ valve position /pump combination) is to 1 ground run it (if new build or restoration fuel flow tests on both sides of tank) then 2 at safe height over a suitable airfield change to reserve and run on reserve as a regular check /flushing run on that side of the tank.

If you find it difficult to change tanks with the standard fuel valve position, then consider the benefits of removing the valve and putting it where you can do it easily.

Also I  would consider a Gascilator  valuable even if its primary purpose is as a water trap as you can not be sure to drain all the water all the time.

Also we take pump samples at our airfield, on a daily basis which are left to settle out water and contaminants (in glass Jam Jars) so fuel quality is controlled (Look for globules in bottom of jar. 

Rather loose some interior trim or other non essentials...

 

I hope these considerations will help, they are not original thinking , or rocket science, I have also discussed with more than a few guys at the LAA show the need for trained /automatic response to power loss (push instantly forward on stick to an attitude that speed is maintained, and also plan for that eventuality during cockpit checks, plan to land ahead until you have the height to turn (Know what height you need to complete a  turn),  the glider pilots amongst you will recognise the BGA training and pilot review methods  ...used to reduce stall spin accidents on winch launching -found only poor examples on u tube but helps to see results ...the second failure is a bit low for comfort to do a 360..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFT1K1rQvHA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqKrQ5uAbRg

 

Kevin

 

 

     

   From: Bob Harrison <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2013, 21:29

 Subject: RE: Fuel filters

  

 

--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk (ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk)>



Hi! Raimo/all

You make an interesting statement with regards to switching to the reserve

tank and got a clean filter to start up with , however I think you should

remember that on a much used aircraft the filling  system always delivers

"the new shit " into the reserve side of the saddle tank and with the best

will in the world it is likely to always store water contamination in a

greater proportion than that on the main delivery side, so don't expect that

the reserve switch will always be your salvation!  The water drain valves

need to be often tested on both sides . I did away with the standard glass

Europa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair gascolator filters one for each

saddle tank side.

After an overnight stay in pouring rain I took about half a litre of water

from the reserve drain valve which I believe went into the tank through the

locking fuel cap so I try to tape up the entire filler cap when in rain .

This incident was at Zelam See (?and I don't think it was from their refuel

facility but who knows?

Best regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 total airframe hours in excess  of

1000.



--

asarangan(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:33 pm Post subject: Fuel filters

Raimo



When you say "I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel

before first flight", was that done through the fuel filter? If yes, I

am curious why those particles were released during flight and not

during the flush. Could ie be vibration, or some other antistatic

effect during flight. May be an ionizing airgun can be used to release

stuck particles?

On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi> wrote:

[quote] 



 Carl and the rest of you who are interested in this topic,



 I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful several times (I had heard

 warnings!). I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel before

 first flight.



 Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full power during cruise and my

 Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went down. Over mountaineous

 forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous test pilot (google!). We

 looked each others and I elected to switch electric pump on AND changed to

 reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also - how genious is that fuel

 system - there is always a clean filter waiting!). That was an autonomious

 reflex only. Rotax fired up immediately.



 Jyrki said later please never apply full power with a new construction or

 after a major service if you are not above airfield! That makes sense. He

 also said he is alive because after every service or repair he had had a

 habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field before heading to somewhere.

 He had completed 9 forced landings and all over the runways, all succesful

 and all because of service failure or service mistake. That has happened

 during his career say 50 years.



 My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally blocked by small particles

 looking gold but they were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes. My

 guess was they (those particles) were "glued" to the tank inside surfaces by

 static forces.



 That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by flight it

 seemed to be cleaner and cleaner.



 Today I check my filters say after every 10 hours - always clean.



 When refueling I have only two alternatives:



 1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield. Systems are aircraft

 quality, classified and certified, filtered and water-isolated.



 2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w as good brand as

 possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnel´s debris /water

 isolator.



 Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any more fuel problems.



 I never clean my filters. I change them for new ones once a year (after

 50-100 hrs service).



 I do not use those original puzzle filters w several parts and glass tube.



 One was broken during towing action and one was broken by itself in the

 hangar.



 I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway models - transparent - one

 piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong way -

 cheap - unbreakable.



 Sold? How many you want?



 Cheers,



 Raimo Toivio

 FINLAND

 OH-XRT

 -----Alkuperäinen viesti----- From: Carl Pattinson

 Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Fuel filters

 

 <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk>



 Hi All,



 I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial

 shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but it's

 definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system before

 assuming everything is clean.



 If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be

 addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do their

 job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put in our

 tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps).



 In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some

 builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of crud

 which should never have been there in the first place - I do not believe

 that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this particular

 issue.



 Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator setup

 instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit builders one

 available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the LAA yesterday and

 they are selling for £60) . The beauty of the setup is that any large lumps

 of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and

 will be drained off when you do your do your daily fuel checks - very little

 muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the bowl (this is a 120 micron

 screen).



 We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on

 filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs of a

 clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate their own

 debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off and if not

 filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered.



 For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be

 possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be dropped

 down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any external

 sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation.



 Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a visual

 warning  of low pressure due to a filter blockage.



 Carl Pattinson

 G-LABS



 --

carl(at)flyers.freeserve.
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:08 pm Post subject: Fuel filters

Hi all,



Maybe I am being smug or just plain naive but we have never had a blockage/ stoppage with our fuel system. I believe this is almost entirely due to us opting for a gascolator as opposed to the standard filter system.



As per my previous post it is a cheapo homebuild gascolator unit with a very fine mesh filter (unfortunately 140 micron is the only size available).



We do get the odd bit of muck (ie: small particles) but these settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and get drained out on the preflight inspection. One one occasion there was about a tablespoon of water after the ac had been left standing in the rain without covering the filler cap.



The gascolator is dismantled and filter gauze changed every 6 months though little debris is found at these inspections. Fuel tank is fully drained and flushed once a year with tail raised as high as possible.



It worries me when I hear tales of blocked filters as we have never experienced this. Im tempted to re design our system and introduce a dual system but then with over 10 years of trouble free flying its probably best to leave well alone.



One recommendation I would strongly make is to ensure that all fuel going into the tank is filtered. I believe it will eliminate 90% of the problem.



Carl Pattinson - G-LABS.



Sent from my ASUS Pad



GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com> wrote:



Bob

good to see you at the show. 

I have seen water leak into the tank from overnight rain.

through the plastic fuel tank cap that many Europas have. Difficult to adjust when

they get corroded and the hut rusts up. Also the size of the O ring is imprtant.

Graham





        From: Bob Harrison <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2013, 21:29

 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters

  

 

--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk (ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk)>



Hi! Raimo/all

You make an interesting statement with regards to switching to the reserve

tank and got a clean filter to start up with , however I think you should

remember that on a much used aircraft the filling system always delivers

"the new shit " into the reserve side of the saddle tank and with the best

will in the world it is likely to always store water contamination in a

greater proportion than that on the main delivery side, so don't expect that

the reserve switch will always be your salvation!  The water drain valves

need to be often tested on both sides . I did away with the standard glass

Europa issue filters and use TWO mini  Andair gascolator filters one for each

saddle tank side.

After an overnight stay in pouring rain I took about half a litre of water

from the reserve drain valve which I believe went into the tank through the

locking fuel cap so I try to tape up the entire filler cap when in rain .

This incident was at Zelam See (?and I don't think it was from their refuel

facility but who knows?

Best regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 total airframe hours in excess of

1000.



--

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:11 am Post subject: Fuel filters

Dear Bob /all,



please try to understand that was MY only option!



Otherwise - forced landing to the hard rocky 

forest including hungry wolves and beers.



It is better you believe it was good to have two 

parallel filters - that is like to have two radios 

or two generators...that 2nd filter really made 

our day.



Also, I was proud about myself, that my reaction 

was one and only correct way to proceed in that 

situation!



It was not very risky to get new shit to the 2nd 

filter because



- loose shit was obvious already in the 1st filter



and



- I fired up the engine with moderate power only.



More:



- In my pre-flight list there is a task "change 

for res/2nd filter for 3 minutes to test it"



and



- Water-drain both sides (never seen water).



and



- when out and raining I always cover a fuel cap 

because I do not trust it.



Better to believe there are safe points but also 

not-so-safe-points in our Europa as well as any 

planes.

Dual fuel systems is great and one of the in-build 

safe systems.

Notice:



- Adding one-way-valve to the fuel return line 

(idea by Frans Veldman) is a great must (and 

mandatory at least for me).



Are you coming to EHTX next weekend?



Cheers, Raimo

-----Alkuperäinen viesti----- 

From: Bob Harrison

Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 11:29 PM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Fuel filters




<ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk>



Hi! Raimo/all

You make an interesting statement with regards to 

switching to the reserve

tank and got a clean filter to start up with , 

however I think you should

remember that on a much used aircraft the filling 

system always delivers

"the new shit " into the reserve side of the 

saddle tank and with the best

will in the world it is likely to always store 

water contamination in a

greater proportion than that on the main delivery 

side, so don't expect that

the reserve switch will always be your salvation! 

The water drain valves

need to be often tested on both sides . I did away 

with the standard glass

Europa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair 

gascolator filters one for each

saddle tank side.

After an overnight stay in pouring rain I took 

about half a litre of water

from the reserve drain valve which I believe went 

into the tank through the

locking fuel cap so I try to tape up the entire 

filler cap when in rain .

This incident was at Zelam See (?and I don't think 

it was from their refuel

facility but who knows?

Best regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 total 

airframe hours in excess of

1000.



--

frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:29 am Post subject: Fuel filters

I'm not to fond about the hungry wolves but that beer is included is a big plus! 



Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  




	


 	  Quote: 	
		  Otherwise - forced landing to the hard rocky 

forest including hungry wolves and beers.




	




[quote]--

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:38 am Post subject: Fuel filters

Anrew,



you made a good question:



Yes - that was made through BOTH filters (150 

liters /filter) and they remain totally clean.

Main reason they were clean was obviously that I 

run fuel only by electric fuel pump ie. engine was 

not running.

My purpose was to calibrate fuel gauge (electric 

and visual), check the system and to clean it.



As we know, I did not succeeded. But I did during 

that flight! After that - filters have been 

*almost* clean after every change period one year 

(=50-100 hrs).



Notice:



I had flown before that case 5 hours. I had used 

more or less full power at least ten times x 5 

minutes during every take-off. That main filter 

was still clean from flight to flight until that 

almost destiny flight. That´s a bit scary, isn´t 

it?



Why:



As you wrote, vibration, static effects and also 

time, fuel itself, temperature changes etc affects 

to the tank shit and its releasing time. Maybe 

also full moon periods can do that. I am sure 

Frans can imagine a lot more reasons for that.



How to avoid:



- clean more carefully.

- use your time.

- use different methods (ionizing could be that).

- check the tank by using boroscope with light.

- before first flight complete a lot full power 

engine tests.

- when flying a test period say first 5 hours do 

that only over your landing area.

- when using full power during your test phase say 

first 10 hours do that only over your landing 

area.



BTW - checked that lab report - that gold coloured 

"material" which suddenly blocked my filter during 

that flight - shit in the filter - was epoxbased.

Maybe it was somehow glued to the tank inside and 

finally separated.



Cheers, Raimo



OH-XRT



-----Alkuperäinen viesti----- 

From: Andrew Sarangan

Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 4:32 AM

To: Europa List

Subject: Re: Fuel filters




<asarangan(at)gmail.com>



Raimo



When you say "I pumped through the system at least 

300 liters of fuel

before first flight", was that done through the 

fuel filter? If yes, I

am curious why those particles were released 

during flight and not

during the flush. Could ie be vibration, or some 

other antistatic

effect during flight. May be an ionizing airgun 

can be used to release

stuck particles?

On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Raimo Toivio 

<raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi> wrote:

[quote] 

 Toivio" <raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi>



 Carl and the rest of you who are interested in 

 this topic,



 I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful 

 several times (I had heard

 warnings!). I pumped through the system at least 

 300 liters of fuel before

 first flight.



 Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed 

 full power during cruise and my

 Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure 

 went down. Over mountaineous

 forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a 

 famous test pilot (google!). We

 looked each others and I elected to switch 

 electric pump on AND changed to

 reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also - 

 how genious is that fuel

 system - there is always a clean filter 

 waiting!). That was an autonomious

 reflex only. Rotax fired up immediately.



 Jyrki said later please never apply full power 

 with a new construction or

 after a major service if you are not above 

 airfield! That makes sense. He

 also said he is alive because after every 

 service or repair he had had a

 habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field 

 before heading to somewhere.

 He had completed 9 forced landings and all over 

 the runways, all succesful

 and all because of service failure or service 

 mistake. That has happened

 during his career say 50 years.



 My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was 

 totally blocked by small particles

 looking gold but they were identified to be shit 

 from lay-upp processes. My

 guess was they (those particles) were "glued" to 

 the tank inside surfaces by

 static forces.



 That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY 

 flight. Flight by flight it

 seemed to be cleaner and cleaner.



 Today I check my filters say after every 10 

 hours - always clean.



 When refueling I have only two alternatives:



 1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield. 

 Systems are aircraft

 quality, classified and certified, filtered and 

 water-isolated.



 2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol 

 stations w as good brand as

 possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc 

 Funnel´s debris /water

 isolator.



 Since that scary action 2007, I have had never 

 any more fuel problems.



 I never clean my filters. I change them for new 

 ones once a year (after

 50-100 hrs service).



 I do not use those original puzzle filters w 

 several parts and glass tube.



 One was broken during towing action and one was 

 broken by itself in the

 hangar.



 I use original Rotax filters - they are 

 throwaway models - transparent - one

 piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to 

 assemble them wrong way -

 cheap - unbreakable.



 Sold? How many you want?



 Cheers,



 Raimo Toivio

 FINLAND

 OH-XRT

 -----Alkuperäinen viesti----- From: Carl 

 Pattinson

 Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Fuel filters

 

 Pattinson"

 <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk>



 Hi All,



 I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked 

 filters after the initial

 shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out 

 tanks after build but it's

 definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel 

 through the system before

 assuming everything is clean.



 If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an 

 issue that should be

 addressed first rather instead of relying on the 

 fuel filters to do their

 job. I accept that some of us have less control 

 over what we put in our

 tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing 

 fuel at the airfield pumps).



 In the early days I recall that clogged filters 

 were an issue for some

 builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed 

 by large amounts of crud

 which should never have been there in the first 

 place - I do not believe

 that changing the size of the filter mesh would 

 address this particular

 issue.



 Personally I never liked the factory system and 

 opted for a gascolator setup

 instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the 

 cheap kit builders one

 available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced 

 one at the LAA yesterday and

 they are selling for £60) . The beauty of the 

 setup is that any large lumps

 of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom 

 of the gascolator bowl and

 will be drained off when you do your do your 

 daily fuel checks - very little

 muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the 

 bowl (this is a 120 micron

 screen).



 We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from 

 cans which we insist on

 filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have 

 never found any signs of a

 clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal 

 fuel cans generate their own

 debris as the internal paint on the cans tends 

 to flake off and if not

 filtered would cause problems if not pre 

 filtered.



 For those who have to rely on airfield based 

 supplies if it should be

 possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon 

 mesh) which could be dropped

 down the fuel filler opening to ensure the 

 cleanliness of any external

 sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent 

 installation.



 Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge 

 which would give a visual

 warning  of low pressure due to a filter 

 blockage.



 Carl Pattinson

 G-LABS



 --

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:41 am Post subject: Fuel filters

OK Frans, that beer* is still waiting for you 

here - I will handle those bears then (maybe eat)!



* Aviators Beer



-----AlkuperÃ¤inen viesti----- 

From: Frans Veldman

Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 11:28 AM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Fuel filters




<frans(at)privatepilots.nl>



I'm not to fond about the hungry wolves but that 

beer is included is a big plus!



Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi>




	


 	  Quote: 	
		  Otherwise - forced landing to the hard rocky

forest including hungry wolves and beers.




	




[quote]--

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:49 am Post subject: Fuel filters

It worries me when I hear tales of blocked filters as we have never experienced this. Im tempted to re design our system and introduce a dual system but then with over 10 years of trouble free flying its probably best to leave well alone.



One recommendation I would strongly make is to ensure that all fuel going into the tank is filtered. I believe it will eliminate 90% of the problem.



Carl, if I were you, I would do same. Your method is proofed after 10 years. Re-designing is always a new risk. 



Refueling quality is essential anyway as you wrote.



You take care of your plane a lot better than me: I have not cleaned my tank after itÂ´s completion 2007. I have only trusted my refueling manners and filters (which are always *almost* clean).



One more thing:



- use only your very own and known canisters.

- in the new canister there could be what so ever like mices or gigarrettes (from China).

- trust only yourself when refueling. 



Cheers, Raimo



OH-XRT



From: Carl Pattinson 

Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 9:56 AM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

Subject: Re: Fuel filters



Hi all,



Maybe I am being smug or just plain naive but we have never had a blockage/ stoppage with our fuel system. I believe this is almost entirely due to us opting for a gascolator as opposed to the standard filter system.



As per my previous post it is a cheapo homebuild gascolator unit with a very fine mesh filter (unfortunately 140 micron is the only size available).



We do get the odd bit of muck (ie: small particles) but these settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and get drained out on the preflight inspection. One one occasion there was about a tablespoon of water after the ac had been left standing in the rain without covering the filler cap.



The gascolator is dismantled and filter gauze changed every 6 months though little debris is found at these inspections. Fuel tank is fully drained and flushed once a year with tail raised as high as possible.



It worries me when I hear tales of blocked filters as we have never experienced this. Im tempted to re design our system and introduce a dual system but then with over 10 years of trouble free flying its probably best to leave well alone.



One recommendation I would strongly make is to ensure that all fuel going into the tank is filtered. I believe it will eliminate 90% of the problem.



Carl Pattinson - G-LABS.



Sent from my ASUS Pad



GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com> wrote:

Bob

good to see you at the show. 

I have seen water leak into the tank from overnight rain.

through the plastic fuel tank cap that many Europas have. Difficult to adjust when

they get corroded and the hut rusts up. Also the size of the O ring is imprtant.

Graham



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Harrison <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2013, 21:29

Subject: RE: Fuel filters




Hi! Raimo/all

You make an interesting statement with regards to switching to the reserve

tank and got a clean filter to start up with , however I think you should

remember that on a much used aircraft the filling system always delivers

"the new shit " into the reserve side of the saddle tank and with the best

will in the world it is likely to always store water contamination in a

greater proportion than that on the main delivery side, so don't expect that

the reserve switch will always be your salvation!  The water drain valves

need to be often tested on both sides . I did away with the standard glass

Europa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair gascolator filters one for each

saddle tank side.

After an overnight stay in pouring rain I took about half a litre of water

from the reserve drain valve which I believe went into the tank through the

locking fuel cap so I try to tape up the entire filler cap when in rain

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:28 am Post subject: Fuel filters

Hi! Raimo/all

I hope to be at Texel, except I have bad mag drop  readout which I have to

"bottom out" and a new Arificial Gyro Horizon since LAA Rally to fit plus I

may have "date" with a Heathrow "arrival" which will take priority !

But hope so since it is the last for my season.

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG



--

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 797

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:22 pm Post subject: Fuel filters

Hi Raimo 

 	You mentioned:  	  Quote: 	
		  

Notice:



- Adding one-way-valve to the fuel return line

(idea by Frans Veldman) is a great must (and

mandatory at least for me).

	
 

 	Can you elaborate a little on why you might want to put a one-way-valve on the fuel return line? Is this for a 914 fuel system? 

 	Thx. 

 	Ron Parigoris    [quote][b]

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 797

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:22 pm Post subject: Fuel filters

Hi Raimo 

 	You mentioned:  	  Quote: 	
		  

Notice:



- Adding one-way-valve to the fuel return line

(idea by Frans Veldman) is a great must (and

mandatory at least for me).

	
 

 	Can you elaborate a little on why you might want to put a one-way-valve on the fuel return line? Is this for a 914 fuel system? 

 	Thx. 

 	Ron Parigoris    [quote][b]

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