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Bad Crimp?

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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:38 pm Post subject: Bad Crimp?

Bob,

Can you tell from the photo if this is this a poor crimp?  It was overheating on the back of a strobe switch.  I recall Bill Watson had a crimp fail on a strobe switch recently as well.  The strobes were occasionally intermittent but the wire near the terminal was always very hot to the touch.  The insulation was discolored too.

  



I changed the terminal and the last few inches of wire, and now all is well.  Nice and cool.

  



Any comments on the crimp would be much appreciated.

Dave Saylor

831-750-0284 CL

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nuckollsr

Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Posts: 95
Location: Medicine Lodge, KS

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Bad Crimp?

I think the evidence is pretty conclusive. ANY terminal that gets hot is victim to heat dissipated in some resistance between wire and terminal or terminal and installation surface . . . or both.



Compare the appearance of cross section for the terminal you replaces versus a terminal I sectioned for this article:



http://tinyurl.com/kfk6jss



The terminal you removed was definitely not INTIMATELY mated with the wire strands. There are voids between strands and a large void in the cavity adjacent to captured strands. In the "golden-crush", wires become indistinguishable from the terminal's wire grip barrel.



Was the terminal the right size for the wire? If it was installed with a tool from your shop, an investigation is warranted. You don't want to install a bunch of terminals like that!



Bob . . .

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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:39 am Post subject: Bad Crimp?

Yep, I have a few tools to take a look at.  Hopefully it's a case of using the wrong crimper slot.  It's a 20AWG in a red PIDG terminal.

  



FWIW, the wire felt very slightly loose in the connector, but it didn't pull out.  Just kind of worked back and forth.



  Dave Saylor

831-750-0284 CL

 



On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 6:58 PM, nuckollsr <bob.nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com (bob.nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

[quote]  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "nuckollsr" <bob.nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com (bob.nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com)>

 

 I think the evidence is pretty conclusive. ANY terminal that gets hot is victim to heat dissipated in some resistance between wire and terminal or terminal and installation surface . . . or both.

 

 Compare the appearance of cross section for the terminal you replaces versus a terminal I sectioned for this article:

 

 http://tinyurl.com/kfk6jss

 

 The terminal you removed was definitely not INTIMATELY mated with the wire strands. There are voids between strands and a large void in the cavity adjacent to captured strands. In the "golden-crush", wires become indistinguishable from the terminal's wire grip barrel.

   

 Was the terminal the right size for the wire? If it was installed with a tool from your shop, an investigation is warranted. You don't want to install a bunch of terminals like that!

 

 Bob . . .

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408569#408569

 

 

 

 

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 http://forums.matronics.com//files/photo_135_164.jpg

 

 

 

 

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sprocket(at)vx-aviation.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:28 pm Post subject: Bad Crimp?

A few years ago, I had a strobe switch failure, and the terminals  charred.   The root cause is thermal runaway:

 A strobe power supply is a constant-power device.  This means that if  there is resistance in the switch circuit, it will draw more current to make up  the different.  This increased current makes the switch get hotter,  increasing resistance, and so on.  Eventually everything gets toasty and  fails.

  

 The root cause of this was found (and reviewed by Bob) to be loose rivets  on the Carling switches used in this application.  After I switched to  Honeywell switches (and changed the charred fast-ons), I’ve had no   problems.  This loose rivet failure also occurred in my landing light  circuit and master switch.

  

 Vern

    

  From: Dave Saylor (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 2:36 PM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)  

 Subject: Bad Crimp?

  



   Bob,

  

 Can you tell from the photo if  this is this a poor crimp?  It was overheating on the back of a strobe  switch.  I recall Bill Watson had a crimp fail on a strobe switch recently  as well.  The strobes were occasionally intermittent but the wire near the  terminal was always very hot to the touch.  The insulation was discolored  too.

  

 I changed the terminal and the  last few inches of wire, and now all is well.  Nice and cool.

  

 Any comments on the crimp  would be much appreciated.

  

 Dave Saylor

831-750-0284 CL

  



 

   

No virus found in this  message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2013.0.3408 / Virus  Database: 3222/6663 - Release Date: 09/13/13

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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:41 pm Post subject: Bad Crimp?

Good memory there Dave.  I did replace       the crimp and all seemed well with the original installation.

       

       However, during my problem determination and fell back on the good       'ol swap the box solution.  That is, I bought a new strobe unit to       replace the "Avi-Pak" unit from CreativAir.  I picked up the       "XPAK604X" unit from Nova Electronics.  It is a non-aviation unit       but it mounts in the same mount and looks like it is from the same       manufacturer.  

       

       However, this unit keeps the switch out of the main power       circuit.  That is, the XPAK604X  has a power circuit that in the       '10 can be run directly from the rear mounted battery to the       strobe power unit - a run of less than 2 feet.  Then the panel       switch is wired on a separate control circuit.  Notably, the panel       switch no longer is warm to the touch.

       

       I've been running this for about a year and all is good. 

       

       Can't do it now but I can supply more information if needed.

       

       Bill

       

       On 9/13/2013 5:36 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:

     

     [quote]                Bob,

         

         

         Can you tell           from the photo if this is this a poor crimp?  It was           overheating on the back of a strobe switch.  I recall Bill           Watson had a crimp fail on a strobe switch recently as well.            The strobes were occasionally intermittent but the wire near           the terminal was always very hot to the touch.  The insulation           was discolored too.

         

         

         I changed the           terminal and the last few inches of wire, and now all is well.            Nice and cool.

                    

         

         Any comments           on the crimp would be much appreciated.

         

         

         Dave Saylor

           831-750-0284 CL

         

       

       

              

       

No virus         found in this message.

         Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

         09/18/13     [b]

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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:04 am Post subject: Bad Crimp?

In case there are some out there       considering strobe power supplies for their RV10, here are some       diagrams that may be of interest.

       

       Here is (hopefully) a link to a page of the instructions for the       old CreativAir Avi-pak strobe power supply.  I don't think these       are sold any longer but I'm sure a number of older RV10s have       them.

 https://www.dropbox.com/s/2mz34v7tidnmbah/AVI-PAK%20from%20CreativAir.jpg

       

       Here is a link to a page from the non-aviation supply from Nova       Electronics where the switch is in some kind of control circuit.

       https://www.dropbox.com/s/vfsm8htq7e82upx/XPAK604X%20scan.jpg

       

       Given the typical locations in the RV10, Wiring the main power       line to a power bus location that is local to the battery seems       preferable to running the same power line up to the panel and       back.

       

       Bill

       

       On 9/18/2013 11:48 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:

     

     [quote]                I did some           tests with our crimper.  As long as it's used correctly, it           still makes good crimps.  Whew!

                    

         

         I made some           poor crimps on purpose, and they looked like the the one that           failed.  But I really had to abuse it.  Musta had a bad day.

                    

         

         Bill, I like           the idea of having the switch as a control.  The strobe pack           powered by the failed crimp is the certified Whelen version           with regular strobes and LED nav lights. Personally, I have an           automotive Whelen version in my plane.  I haven't looked at it           lately but I recall it has a blade fuse in the case, as you           mentioned only a few inches from the master relay, and it           switches to ground.  But I don't think the switch is a control           as you described since it's the only ground in the system.

       

                Dave Saylor

           831-750-0284 CL

         

         

         On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Bill           Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)>           wrote:

            	  Quote: 	
		                              Good memory there Dave.  I did replace the crimp and                 all seemed well with the original installation.

                 

                 However, during my problem determination and fell back                 on the good 'ol swap the box solution.  That is, I                 bought a new strobe unit to replace the "Avi-Pak" unit                 from CreativAir.  I picked up the "XPAK604X" unit from                 Nova Electronics.  It is a non-aviation unit but it                 mounts in the same mount and looks like it is from the                 same manufacturer.  

                 

                 However, this unit keeps the switch out of the main                 power circuit.  That is, the XPAK604X  has a power                 circuit that in the '10 can be run directly from the                 rear mounted battery to the strobe power unit - a run of                 less than 2 feet.  Then the panel switch is wired on a                 separate control circuit.  Notably, the panel switch no                 longer is warm to the touch.

                 

                 I've been running this for about a year and all is good.                 

                 

                 Can't do it now but I can supply more information if                 needed.

                 

                 Bill

                 

                 On 9/13/2013 5:36 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:

               

                	  Quote: 	
		                                      Bob,

                   

                   

                   Can                     you tell from the photo if this is this a poor                     crimp?  It was overheating on the back of a strobe                     switch.  I recall Bill Watson had a crimp fail on a                     strobe switch recently as well.  The strobes were                     occasionally intermittent but the wire near the                     terminal was always very hot to the touch.  The                     insulation was discolored too.

                   

                   

                   I                     changed the terminal and the last few inches of                     wire, and now all is well.  Nice and cool.

                    

                   

                   Any                     comments on the crimp would be much appreciated.

                   

                   

                   Dave Saylor

                     [url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url]                     CL

                   

                 

                 

                                  

                 

No virus found in this                   message.

                   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

                   09/18/13               



ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

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No virus         found in this message.

         Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

         09/18/13     [b]

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