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Magneto Problem

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Mozam

Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 85

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:03 am Post subject: Magneto Problem

Guys,



I'm having a mag problem that has me stumped. Dennis Savarese, Doug Sapp, and George Coy have been very helpful, but I thought maybe somebody has seen this before and knows the answer.



I installed Dennis Savarese's plug wire kit and it ran great. Five hours later I developed a mag problem with one mag. It runs VERY rough, sputters, pops, and will even quit for a heartbeat and then catch and run.



It's an M9-35 mag and I have replaced the:



- mag cap, 

- hi-tension lead (the cigarette), 

- coil,

- spark plugs, 

- checked the point gap, 

- verified the correct timing,

- and set the rotor to the proper scribe mark. 

- I also verified with an ohm meter all the plug wires.



All to no effect whatsoever. On that mag it sputters, backfires, and will even quit for a heartbeat and then catch and run roughly.



On the other mag, it runs smooth.



Any ideas from the brain trust here??



Thanks,

Steve Dalton

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:28 am Post subject: Magneto Problem

Maybe try to swap the coils from both mags? In that way you could at least

exclude the coil as the source of the problem.



Jan



On 21/09/13 18:03, "Mozam" <sdalton(at)hughes.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Guys,



I'm having a mag problem that has me stumped. Dennis Savarese, Doug Sapp,

and George Coy have been very helpful, but I thought maybe somebody has

seen this before and knows the answer.



I installed Dennis Savarese's plug wire kit and it ran great. Five hours

later I developed a mag problem with one mag. It runs VERY rough,

sputters, pops, and will even quit for a heartbeat and then catch and run.



It's an M9-35 mag and I have replaced the:



- mag cap, 

- hi-tension lead (the cigarette),

- coil,

- spark plugs, 

- checked the point gap,

- verified the correct timing,

- and set the rotor to the proper scribe mark.

- I also verified with an ohm meter all the plug wires.



All to no effect whatsoever. On that mag it sputters, backfires, and will

even quit for a heartbeat and then catch and run roughly.



On the other mag, it runs smooth.



Any ideas from the brain trust here??



Thanks,

Steve Dalton





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408933#408933

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:38 am Post subject: Magneto Problem

Have you check the internal timing?  I had a mag do the very same  thing.  When I took the mag distributor cap off, all looked normal, however  I found that I could turn the rotor itself.  It turn out that the  Chinese had neglected to install a Woodruff key in the rotor shaft during an  overhaul.  It ran fine for 250 hr!  Than the nut loosened and the  internal timing went haywire.  Your's may have come loose and is throwing  off your timing.

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

  

  

  In a message dated 9/21/2013 12:05:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  sdalton(at)hughes.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: "Mozam"    <sdalton(at)hughes.net>



Guys,



I'm having a mag problem that    has me stumped. Dennis Savarese, Doug Sapp, and George Coy have been very    helpful, but I thought maybe somebody has seen this before and knows the    answer.



I installed Dennis Savarese's plug wire kit and it ran great.    Five hours later I developed a mag problem with one mag. It runs VERY rough,    sputters, pops, and will even quit for a heartbeat and then catch and    run.



It's an M9-35 mag and I have replaced the:



- mag cap, 

-    hi-tension lead (the cigarette), 

- coil,

- spark plugs, 

- checked    the point gap, 

- verified the correct timing,

- and set the rotor to    the proper scribe mark. 

- I also verified with an ohm meter all the plug    wires.



All to no effect whatsoever. On that mag it sputters, backfires,    and will even quit for a heartbeat and then catch and run roughly.



On    the other mag, it runs smooth.



Any ideas from the brain trust    here??



Thanks,

Steve Dalton





Read this topic    online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408933#408933

	


 [quote][b]

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:19 pm Post subject: Magneto Problem

Mozam,

Are the point surfaces free of grease. I had a problem with the cam lube grease getting my points on one of my M9 35 mags. Got some contact cleaner and Qtips to clean the surfaces. That drove me crazy a while. Did everything you have done. 

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On Sep 21, 2013, at 1:26 PM, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Maybe try to swap the coils from both mags? In that way you could at least

 exclude the coil as the source of the problem.

 

 Jan

 

 On 21/09/13 18:03, "Mozam" <sdalton(at)hughes.net> wrote:

 

> 

> 

> Guys,

> 

> I'm having a mag problem that has me stumped. Dennis Savarese, Doug Sapp,

> and George Coy have been very helpful, but I thought maybe somebody has

> seen this before and knows the answer.

> 

> I installed Dennis Savarese's plug wire kit and it ran great. Five hours

> later I developed a mag problem with one mag. It runs VERY rough,

> sputters, pops, and will even quit for a heartbeat and then catch and run.

> 

> It's an M9-35 mag and I have replaced the:

> 

> - mag cap, 

> - hi-tension lead (the cigarette),

> - coil,

> - spark plugs, 

> - checked the point gap,

> - verified the correct timing,

> - and set the rotor to the proper scribe mark.

> - I also verified with an ohm meter all the plug wires.

> 

> All to no effect whatsoever. On that mag it sputters, backfires, and will

> even quit for a heartbeat and then catch and run roughly.

> 

> On the other mag, it runs smooth.

> 

> Any ideas from the brain trust here??

> 

> Thanks,

> Steve Dalton

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408933#408933

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:23 am Post subject: Magneto Problem

I would suspect that your replacement coil is defective. This is almost

certainly true if the engine starts fine; is okay cold, and then the problem

manifests itself as the engine becomes hotter.



We have found that the coils, and the internal condenser can deteriorate

significantly even in storage - when they are not being used, so what might

appear to be a perfect coil, simply isn't.



Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5 3LW



Tel:  +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129

www.russianaeros.com



--

coolade2(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:26 am Post subject: Magneto Problem

You may have a bad "P" lead--disconnect the p lead to the bad mag and run the engine--be sure to have someone standing by to hook it back up or you won't be able to shut the engine down without shutting the fire valve.

On Sep 21, 2013, at 10:15 PM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Mozam,

 Are the point surfaces free of grease. I had a problem with the cam lube grease getting my points on one of my M9 35 mags. Got some contact cleaner and Qtips to clean the surfaces. That drove me crazy a while. Did everything you have done. 

 Doc

 

 Sent from my iPad

 

 On Sep 21, 2013, at 1:26 PM, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be> wrote:

 

> 

> 

> Maybe try to swap the coils from both mags? In that way you could at least

> exclude the coil as the source of the problem.

> 

> Jan

> 

> On 21/09/13 18:03, "Mozam" <sdalton(at)hughes.net> wrote:

> 

>> 

>> 

>> Guys,

>> 

>> I'm having a mag problem that has me stumped. Dennis Savarese, Doug Sapp,

>> and George Coy have been very helpful, but I thought maybe somebody has

>> seen this before and knows the answer.

>> 

>> I installed Dennis Savarese's plug wire kit and it ran great. Five hours

>> later I developed a mag problem with one mag. It runs VERY rough,

>> sputters, pops, and will even quit for a heartbeat and then catch and run.

>> 

>> It's an M9-35 mag and I have replaced the:

>> 

>> - mag cap, 

>> - hi-tension lead (the cigarette),

>> - coil,

>> - spark plugs, 

>> - checked the point gap,

>> - verified the correct timing,

>> - and set the rotor to the proper scribe mark.

>> - I also verified with an ohm meter all the plug wires.

>> 

>> All to no effect whatsoever. On that mag it sputters, backfires, and will

>> even quit for a heartbeat and then catch and run roughly.

>> 

>> On the other mag, it runs smooth.

>> 

>> Any ideas from the brain trust here??

>> 

>> Thanks,

>> Steve Dalton

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Read this topic online here:

>> 

>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408933#408933

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

Steven A. Dalton

Joined: 22 Sep 2013
Posts: 5

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Magneto Problem

George Coy wins the prize.



He told me to check for an intake leak. Some time back he spent two days chasing what he thought was a magneto/ignition problem on an AN-2. Like my engine, it ran OK on one mag and terrible on the other. It turned out to be an intake leak.



Well, when I finished swapping the mags...and that is a real fun job re-indexing the couplings...I checked the intake tubes and found one pipe in my intake drain system was broken in half. It was hidden from view and hard to see. All three bottom cylinders were sucking air, as if you left all the intake drain plugs out.



I taped it up for a ground run and all previous symptoms of a bad mag are gone...runs great! Amazing!



My intake drain system has welded up aluminum pipes and obviously cracked and broke due to vibration. I plan to replace it and see Kimball has a kit he offers with flexible hoses. Any others out there with intake drain kits??



Thanks again to Dennis Savarese and Doug Sapp for their help. I now know EVERYTHING about the M-14's magnetos.   



Steve "Mozam" Dalton

dabear

Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Warrenton, VA

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:23 pm Post subject: Magneto Problem

Highly recommend the Kimballs intake drain kit.  Used it on the 285, 360 and

400 engines.  



They make solid stuff



Bear



--

Steven A. Dalton

Joined: 22 Sep 2013
Posts: 5

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Magneto Problem

Bear,



Sorry I missed you today, lost track of phone while on "stun" and working on mag issue.



Your new engine sounded good when you departed.



Do you know if Harry is coming over this weekend?



-Mozam

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:28 pm Post subject: Magneto Problem

Another tale in the never ending list of gotcha yas in the saga of As The YAK Turns.

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On Sep 22, 2013, at 5:00 PM, "Steven A. Dalton" <flatspins(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 George Coy wins the prize.

 

 He told me to check for an intake leak. Some time back he spent two days chasing what he thought was a magneto/ignition problem on an AN-2. Like my engine, it ran OK on one mag and terrible on the other. It turned out to be an intake leak.

 

 Well, when I finished swapping the mags...and that is a real fun job re-indexing the couplings...I checked the intake tubes and found one pipe in my intake drain system was broken in half. It was hidden from view and hard to see. All three bottom cylinders were sucking air, as if you left all the intake drain plugs out.

 

 I taped it up for a ground run and all previous symptoms of a bad mag are gone...runs great! Amazing!

 

 My intake drain system has welded up aluminum pipes and obviously cracked and broke due to vibration. I plan to replace it and see Kimball has a kit he offers with flexible hoses. Any others out there with intake drain kits??

 

 Thanks again to Dennis Savarese and Doug Sapp for their help. I now know EVERYTHING about the M-14's magnetos.   

 

 Steve "Mozam" Dalton

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409009#409009

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:22 pm Post subject: Magneto Problem

Yep,

 I took my drains off for that very reason, years ago, but forgot about  it.    Pappy

  

  In a message dated 9/22/2013 10:28:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  viperdoc(at)mindspring.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp M.D."    <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com>



Another tale in the never ending list    of gotcha yas in the saga of As The YAK Turns.

Doc



Sent from my    iPad



On Sep 22, 2013, at 5:00 PM, "Steven A. Dalton"    <flatspins(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Yak-List message posted    by: "Steven A. Dalton" <flatspins(at)gmail.com>

 

 George Coy    wins the prize.

 

 He told me to check for an intake leak. Some    time back he spent two days chasing what he thought was a magneto/ignition    problem on an AN-2. Like my engine, it ran OK on one mag and terrible on the    other. It turned out to be an intake leak.

 

 Well, when I    finished swapping the mags...and that is a real fun job re-indexing the    couplings...I checked the intake tubes and found one pipe in my intake drain    system was broken in half. It was hidden from view and hard to see. All three    bottom cylinders were sucking air, as if you left all the intake drain plugs    out.

 

 I taped it up for a ground run and all previous symptoms    of a bad mag are gone...runs great! Amazing!

 

 My intake drain    system has welded up aluminum pipes and obviously cracked and broke due to    vibration. I plan to replace it and see Kimball has a kit he offers with    flexible hoses. Any others out there with intake drain kits??

 

    Thanks again to Dennis Savarese and Doug Sapp for their help. I now know    EVERYTHING about the M-14's magnetos.   

 

 Steve "Mozam"    Dalton

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online    here:

 

    http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409009#409009

 

    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

    ies  ay                 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS               - List Contribution Web Site  p;                             


	


	


 [quote][b]

Vic

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 116
Location: Southern Bavaria

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:10 am Post subject: Re: Magneto Problem

Hi Steve,



sorry, but I cannot see the logic when you stated that the engine sounded OK on one mag and not so on the second when later you diagnosed air leaks in the intake pipes. Suspecting some other cause IÂ´d love to learn what may be behind this logic ?



  Cheers

   Vic

GeorgeCoy

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:51 am Post subject: Magneto Problem

I think it has to do with an overly lean mixture and the flame fronts in the

cylinder. Apparently one spark plug is not enough to adequately ignite the

over lean mixture.



George



--

dabear

Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Warrenton, VA

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:13 am Post subject: Magneto Problem

It does work that way thought I can't explain it.  



If you have EGT for each cylinder, go out and do a mag check on each mag

with the intake drain open.  You'll see certain (I don't remember which)

cylinders not completely fire.  If you do the same test with the primer open

(tilted to the side), you'll see cylinder 9 go bad.   



Bear

--

Vic

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 116
Location: Southern Bavaria

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:09 am Post subject: Re: Magneto Problem

Well, I was believing the engine did quite OK on the "good" mag and sputtered on the bad, assuming, the good mag fired just one spark per pot and the other mag was earthed. So this would not help with the phenomenon.



   Vic

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