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New electrical architecture with ENGINE BUS

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user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1927
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:56 pm Post subject: New electrical architecture with ENGINE BUS

Attached is an electrical drawing with an ENGINE BUS.  It is designed to be used with engines that rely on aircraft electrical power.  It is not for my airplane (which is already flying) or for anyone in particular.  Feel free to criticize, comment, or make suggestions or improvements.

Joe

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ENGINE BUS.pdf

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Fred Klein

Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:17 pm Post subject: New electrical architecture with ENGINE BUS

Joe...(even) I see many attributes in your diagram...thank you.



Am I write in surmising that my EXP Bus could serve as the Main Power Distribution Bus?



If I understand correctly, the only items on the Endurance Bus would be be desirable things like intercom,  some overhead lighting, xpndr, maybe COM, as long as the load does not exceed 3-4 amps.



How would you feel about your diagram if the 2 battery contactors were mounted on the engine side of the firewall?



Fred



On Oct 14, 2013, at 1:56 PM, user9253 wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Attached is an electrical drawing with an ENGINE BUS.  It is designed to be used with engines that rely on aircraft electrical power.  It is not for my airplane (which is already flying) or for anyone in particular.  Feel free to criticize, comment, or make suggestions or improvements.

 Joe

 

 --------

 Joe Gores

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410542#410542

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/engine_bus_604.pdf

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user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1927
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: New electrical architecture with ENGINE BUS

 	  Quote: 	
		  Am I right in surmising that my EXP Bus could serve as the Main Power Distribution Bus? 	


Yes, but the EXP Bus should not shut off battery contactors that supply power to the engine bus.  And it is safer to have the master relay located close to the power source rather than inside of the EXP Bus.  Try to keep smoke on the other side of the firewall away from you.

 	  Quote: 	
		  If I understand correctly, the only items on the Endurance Bus would be be desirable things like intercom, some overhead lighting, xpndr, maybe COM, as long as the load does not exceed 3-4 amps. 	


You have the right idea.  Whatever devices are important to you can be connected to the E-Bus.  The total E-Bus load is a matter of personal preference as long as the circuit is designed to carry the load.  I think that up to 10 amps is reasonable.  A relay can be used to handle heavier loads.

 	  Quote: 	
		  How would you feel about your diagram if the 2 battery contactors were mounted on the engine side of the firewall? 	


It is much safer to disconnect the power as close to the source as possible in the event of an electrical fire or imminent forced landing.

Joe

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Joe Gores

mrspudandcompany(at)veriz
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:28 pm Post subject: New electrical architecture with ENGINE BUS

 	  Quote: 	
		  > Am I right in surmising that my EXP Bus could serve as the Main Power 

> Distribution Bus?



 Yes, but the EXP Bus should not shut off battery contactors that supply 

 power to the engine bus.  And it is safer to have the master relay located 

 close to the power source rather than inside of the EXP Bus.  Try to keep 

 smoke on the other side of the firewall away from you.


	


        Battery power for the engine ignition and fuel pumps should not go 

through

        a contactor.  This power should come directly from the battery bus, 

which is

        hard wired directly to the battery.  This will give you fewer 

components in

        the line and less chance of failure.

        Roger 

--



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uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:22 pm Post subject: New electrical architecture with ENGINE BUS

 	  Quote: 	
		   Attached is an electrical drawing with an ENGINE BUS.  


	


Joe, I know this has been addressed on the list before, but can you remind

me what software you use to produce such drawings?



Regards,

Sacha

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Fred Klein

Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:11 pm Post subject: New electrical architecture with ENGINE BUS

On Oct 14, 2013, at 7:08 PM, R. curtis wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		        Battery power for the engine ignition and fuel pumps should not go through a contactor.  This power should come directly from the battery bus, which is hard wired directly to the battery.  This will give you fewer components in the line and less chance of failure.

	




Roger...as I read Joe's hypothetical "dual battery - single alternator" circuit diagram,  the two power feeds from the dual batteries both go thru the contactors...I gather that whatever chance of failure this presents is mitigated by having the dual feeds. Good point.

As I read Z-19, the two battery busses are both fed directly from the batteries rather than allowing the power to be dependent upon functioning contactors. 

thanks,

Fred



 [quote][b]

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user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1927
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:44 am Post subject: Re: New electrical architecture with ENGINE BUS

 	  Quote: 	
		  can you remind me what software you use to produce such drawings? 	


I use TurboCAD Professional 16.2 Full Edition.  Aircraft electrical system drawings and symbols are available for free download from Bob Nuckolls website: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/  Thanks Bob.

Older versions of TurboCAD are for sale on Amazon for $10 to $30 (sort by price).  I am not familiar with the different versions of TurboCAD, but would get a deluxe version.  Files can be saved in many different formats.  For sharing drawings with others, I save them as pdf because they can be zoomed in without blurring.

Joe

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Fred Klein

Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:39 am Post subject: New electrical architecture with ENGINE BUS

On Oct 14, 2013, at 5:29 PM, user9253 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  Am I right in surmising that my EXP Bus could serve as the Main Power Distribution Bus?

	


Yes, but the EXP Bus should not shut off battery contactors that supply power to the engine bus. And it is safer to have the master relay located close to the power source rather than inside of the EXP Bus.  Try to keep smoke on the other side of the firewall away from you.

	




Joe...I need to look into this a bit further...the EXP Bus instructions recommend that when battery is more than 3 feet away from Bus that an external solenoid be used in place of the internal master relay...the narrative adjacent to Fig. 8 in the EXP Bus installation instructions makes this clear...and the mfg'r provides a jumper to replace the relay...(I've done that)...HOWEVER, it's also clear that the mfg'r's diagram for the External Solenoid installation did NOT remove the "box" entitled "Master Relay". At least, that's what I surmise at the moment and I'll be trying to confirm that today.

So...if I continue to use the EXP Bus, rest assured that the EXP master switch activates the (external) contactor #1 as shown on my now quite obsolete circuit diagram.

 	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  How would you feel about your diagram if the 2 battery contactors were mounted on the engine side of the firewall? 

	


It is much safer to disconnect the power as close to the source as possible in the event of an electrical fire or imminent forced landing. 	




...OK...I get it...and...in my fiberglass airframe, can I bring a SINGLE  4AWG ground directly to the engine?

And, can I (should I?) use a brass strap to connect the (-) sides of the contactors?

Fred



 [quote][b]

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user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1927
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:33 am Post subject: Re: New electrical architecture with ENGINE BUS

 	  Quote: 	
		  ...in my fiberglass airframe, can I bring a SINGLE 4AWG ground directly to the engine? 	


The size of the wire depends on the starter current and also the distance between the battery and the starter.  The negative wire is just as important as the positive wire.  If you use a singe wire, be 100 percent sure that the connections at each end will not loosen or corrode.  The same can be said for the positive wire (if only one is used).

 	  Quote: 	
		  can I (should I?) use a brass strap to connect the (-) sides of the contactors? 	


Contactors do not have a negative side unless you are talking about the coil.  If you use 2 battery contactors, then the negative side of each coil is connected to a separate switch.  A brass strap could be used to connect the negative terminals of 2 batteries together.

Joe

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