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looking for help with "mushy" brakes on CJ

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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:42 pm Post subject: looking for help with "mushy" brakes on CJ

When is the last time the brake differential and the proportionator been rebuilt? 

Doc 



Sent from my iPad



On Oct 13, 2013, at 10:02 PM, "keithmckinley" <cetopfed(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 My brakes started to feel progressively mushy starting about 50 hours ago. Just checked the  drums and they looked fine and the pucks did not show much wear at all (pucks and drums have around 200 hours on them ). I find that I'm pulling the brake handle right up to the stick. I have some room to adjust the cable on the front stick. Is there anything else I should be looking at? Steering is normal, brake handle just doesn't seem crisp.

 

 brakes just barely hold for prop check on run-up.

 

 Keith

 

 --------

 Keith McKinley

 700HS

 X26 Sebastian, FL

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410469#410469

cd001633(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:21 pm Post subject: looking for help with "mushy" brakes on CJ

Keith,



The braded steel cable stretches over time - this is the reason it is

getting closer and closer to the stick.  If not mistaken (I did it a few

years ago), you can shorten the cable by adjusting the retaining nut in

front side of the stick column...



At some point you may want to replace with a braded stainless steel cable.



Sam Sax

--

keithmckinley

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:43 am Post subject: Re: looking for help with

Hi Sam and Doc,



It is my feeling that the differential and proportioner are in good shape. The cable is no doubt an original Chinese cable that I believe has stretched some. Good news is I do have SS cable from Doug in stock.



I may try the adjustment the retaining nut, but there is not much left on it



Keith

jackpot

Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Posts: 65
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:55 am Post subject: looking for help with "mushy" brakes on CJ

Several years ago I had the same brake problem found the old cable was coming apart inside of the outer covering. Don't mess with adjustment. Install the replacement cable. Or you might get a nasty surprise.  Made a new inside cable   I think that was before anyone was selling replacement parts.  Gary G.  CJ. N22YK



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 14, 2013, at 5:43, "keithmckinley" <cetopfed(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Hi Sam and Doc,

 

 It is my feeling that the differential and proportioner are in good shape. The cable is no doubt an original Chinese cable that I believe has stretched some. Good news is I do have SS cable from Doug in stock.

 

 I may try the adjustment the retaining nut, but there is not much left on it

 

 Keith

 

 --------

 Keith McKinley

 700HS

 X26 Sebastian, FL

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410488#410488

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:01 am Post subject: looking for help with "mushy" brakes on CJ

Guy's,  cable stretch to the degree that it would effect your brakes is a "wives tale".  The cable is not stretching, your swedge might be slipping or the gob/ball of solder (on the stock cable) might be giving way, but the cable is not stretching.  I would estimate that 75% of the guys who adjusted their cables because of "stretch" had the cable break soon after the adjustment. 



 



On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 5:43 AM, keithmckinley <cetopfed(at)gmail.com (cetopfed(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "keithmckinley" <cetopfed(at)gmail.com (cetopfed(at)gmail.com)>

  

 Hi Sam and Doc,

 

 It is my feeling that the differential and proportioner are in good shape. The cable is no doubt an original Chinese cable that I believe has stretched some. Good news is I do have SS cable from Doug in stock.

 

 I may try the adjustment the retaining nut, but there is not much left on it

 

 Keith

 

 --------

 Keith McKinley

 700HS

 X26 Sebastian, FL

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410488#410488

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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 [b]

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:20 am Post subject: looking for help with "mushy" brakes on CJ

1 - The cable is probably stretched because there isn't much adjustment left

2 - You should remove the wheel assemblies and check for glazed brake 

pads.  Then check for a broken or missing felt grease seal on hub.  It's 

the grease seal that fits into the large "cup" behind the rear bearing.  

If the felt grease seal is messed up or missing, grease from the rear 

bearing will sling outward onto the drum and brake pads causing the 

brake pads to glaze.  Once glazed, the brakes will feel 'spongy'.  Clean 

the brake pads with avgas and dry thoroughly.  Then scuff the brake pads 

up with 60 grit wet/dry sandpaper.



Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 10/14/2013 7:43 AM, keithmckinley wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi Sam and Doc,



 It is my feeling that the differential and proportioner are in good shape. The cable is no doubt an original Chinese cable that I believe has stretched some. Good news is I do have SS cable from Doug in stock.



 I may try the adjustment the retaining nut, but there is not much left on it



 Keith



 --------

 Keith McKinley

 700HS

 X26 Sebastian, FL





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410488#410488

PS

Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 84
Location: Texas

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:49 am Post subject: Re: looking for help with

Keith,



I believe I replaced the proportioning valve in 2006.



Phil

_________________
Phil

keithmckinley

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: looking for help with

Brakes pads, drums good to go, brand new felt seals. Minor adjustment on the stick at brake handle of maybe an 1/8" and the brake handle feels normal again. I plan on putting the SS cable I have on as soon as I can remember where I put it.



Thanks,



Keith

jackpot

Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Posts: 65
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:33 am Post subject: looking for help with "mushy" brakes on CJ

Guys on my cable the strands of the cable had worn so much inside the outer housing that several of the strands were broken and only one strand was actuating the brakes. A few more applications of the brakes and I would have had no brakes. They were broken inside the housing where you can not see to cable.  Don't screw around with it, CHANGE THE CABLE!!!!                 CJ     N22YK.  Gary G. 



Sent from my iPad



[quote] On Oct 14, 2013, at 9:54, doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 Guy's,  cable stretch to the degree that it would effect your brakes is a "wives tale".  The cable is not stretching, your swedge might be slipping or the gob/ball of solder (on the stock cable) might be giving way, but the cable is not stretching.  I would estimate that 75% of the guys who adjusted their cables because of "stretch" had the cable break soon after the adjustment

jblake207(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:49 am Post subject: looking for help with "mushy" brakes on CJ

I would strongly suggest that you replace the old brake cable and housing.  It is the single point of failure in the brake system... it fails and you're SOL.  My cable broke while I was taxing and I instantly realized that the only option I had, since no one was in the back seat, was to kill the mags and hope for the best.  Fortunately, the airplane rolled to a stop a few feet from another airplane.  I went to a local motorcycle shop and bought a new cable and housing (I think it was actually a throttle cable for an ATV) that fit perfectly.  I now squirt a little oil in it each year and so far no signs of wear or stretch.  Much better solution than trying to swag an end to a new cable and then trying to route that through the old housing.  Or maybe Doug has the perfect replacement.



 Jon Blake

jblake207(at)comcast.net



  From: "Gary Gabbard" <ggg6(at)att.net>

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 9:47:53 AM

Subject: Re: Re: looking for help with "mushy" brakes on CJ



--> Yak-List message posted by: Gary Gabbard <ggg6(at)att.net>



Several years ago I had the same brake problem found the old cable was coming apart inside of the outer covering. Don't mess with adjustment. Install the replacement cable. Or you might get a nasty surprise.  Made a new inside cable   I think that was before anyone was selling replacement parts.  Gary G.  CJ. N22YK



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 14, 2013, at 5:43, "keithmckinley" <cetopfed(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 --> Yak-List message posted by: "keithmckinley" <cetopfed(at)gmail.com>

 

 Hi Sam and Doc,

 

 It is my feeling that the differential and proportioner are in good shape. The cable is no doubt an original Chinese cable that I believe has stretched some. Good news is I do have SS cable from Doug in stock.

 

 I may try the adjustment the retaining nut, but there is not much left on it

 

 Keith

 

 --------

 Keith McKinley

 700HS

 X26 Sebastian, FL

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410488#410488

 

 

 

 <========================


	


 [quote][b]

Pete Fowler

Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Posts: 76
Location: California

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: looking for help with

I had mushy feeling brakes. The cable inspected fine but was at the end of its adjustment. As a rule, I always brief the GIB about using the brakes and have them hold the plane with the brakes when I'm pulling the prop through.



I was taxiing down-hill at Catalina (which has a several hundred foot cliff with no barriers at the end of the taxiway I was on when the cable failed. Had I been alone, I would have gone for the dirt off the taxiway but I thought to tell the GIB briskly "GRAB THE BRAKES". 



As mentioned, the solder and cable had failed underneath the wire wrap so there were no visual signs that it was failing other than that "mushy" feeling.



I replaced both cables with full aircraft quality cable and swages. No bicycle parts for my plane. Grabbing a non-brake heading towards a cliff should be a once-in-a-lifetime bit of excitement.

brake cable.jpg

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jonboede(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:11 pm Post subject: looking for help with "mushy" brakes on CJ

I had mushy brakes in my CJ as a result of a sudden increase in mushiness... immediately got a new cable from Doug.  These things are signs of things to come.



Amazing how much rust was in the old tube... much better control with the new one and it took hardly any time to replace it.



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Yak-List: Re: looking for help with "mushy" brakes on CJ

 From: pfdesign1(at)cox.net

 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 17:32:43 -0700

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Yak-List message posted by: "Pete Fowler" <pfdesign1(at)cox.net>

 

 I had mushy feeling brakes. The cable inspected fine but was at the end of its adjustment. As a rule, I always brief the GIB about using the brakes and have them hold the plane with the brakes when I'm pulling the prop through.

 

 I was taxiing down-hill at Catalina (which has a several hundred foot cliff with no barriers at the end of the taxiway I was on when the cable failed. Had I been alone, I would have gone for the dirt off the taxiway but I thought to tell the GIB briskly "GRAB THE BRAKES". 

 

 As mentioned, the solder and cable had failed underneath the wire wrap so there were no visual signs that it was failing other than that "mushy" feeling.

 

 I replaced both cables with full aircraft quality cable and swages. No bicycle parts for my plane. Grabbing a non-brake heading towards a cliff should be a once-in-a-lifetime bit of excitement.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411043#411043

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/brake_cable_912.jpg


	




 		 	   		  

  [quote][b]

keithmckinley

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: looking for help with

Pete,



WOW! thanks for sharing and the great pics!



Keith

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