Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Electrical Problem

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:05 am Post subject: Electrical Problem

I have been fighting a new electrical issue on my VW powered Kolb MKIIIC half the summer. My ammeter flutters from 10 amps plus to 10 amps minus at cruise RPMs. The engine runs fine and even flies great but the ammeter is try to warn me something is wrong. Talking to Steve Bennet at Great Plains Aircraft (he sells the alternator) he says that this will happen if the alternator regulator isn't properly grounded and that there is a diagnostic guide at the Kohler Engine web site for their V twin engines that is useful. It looks like the same alternator. 



Anyway I have replaced the regulator, cleaned bolts and stand offs where the regulator is bolted to the Diel accessory case, replaced the ammeter, and added an additional ground wire from the regulator to the engine case. I have checked the AC running voltage unregulated from the alternator (29VAC), verified there is no grounding of the alternator power wires (I will check next spring if there is a grounding when hot), the voltage regulator is grounded (seem like is showed .002 ohms) between the regulator and (the engine and also the ground on the battery). I disconnected the alternator from the electrical system and the ammeter showed a steady 5 amp discharge so it appears it is a alternator problem.

 



I'm at the limit of what I can do. Someone suggested I add a capacitor to smooth out the voltage but that seems like a fix for the symptoms not the problem. I'm afraid to fly out of the pattern with this going on. Does anyone have any ideas on what else I can check or what the problem is????

 



Thanks

Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



  [quote][b]

- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:07 pm Post subject: Electrical Problem

Rick,

 Do you have an aluminum support and cover bolted to the flywheel end of the engine containing the alternator with the starter bolted to it ?

 If so,check the starter attach bolts .One may be long enough to pass through the housing and ground the windings of the stator intermittently.

 G.Aman

    

  

     

  

     

  

    --

- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

Herb Graff

Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 12

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:41 pm Post subject: Electrical Problem

A very interesting situation! My guess is, it's a problem with the  voltage sensing lead. I don't know the type of rectifier/regulator you have, but  most have a sense input that actually allows a connection all the way to the  battery, to get the best voltage regulation there at the battery. A cheaper way  would be to connect the sense wire to the regulator output, right near the  regulator itself. I have a suspicion that the sense wire might just be open.  Since you reported nice steady 29 volt AC input to the regulator, changed the  regulator itself, the only other source of problem behavior is the wiring.

  

 HerbG

  

  In a message dated 10/23/2013 4:49:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  neilsenrm(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     I have been fighting a new electrical issue on my VW powered Kolb    MKIIIC half the summer. My ammeter flutters from 10 amps plus to 10 amps minus    at cruise RPMs. The engine runs fine and even flies great but the ammeter is    try to warn me something is wrong. Talking to Steve Bennet at Great Plains    Aircraft (he sells the alternator) he says that this will happen if the    alternator regulator isn't properly grounded and that there is a diagnostic    guide at the Kohler Engine web site for their V twin engines that is useful.    It looks like the same alternator.    



   Anyway I have replaced the regulator, cleaned bolts and stand offs where    the regulator is bolted to the Diel accessory case, replaced the ammeter, and    added an additional ground wire from the regulator to the engine case. I have    checked the AC running voltage unregulated from the alternator (29VAC),    verified there is no grounding of the alternator power wires (I will check    next spring if there is a grounding when hot), the voltage regulator is    grounded (seem like is showed .002 ohms) between the regulator and (the engine    and also the ground on the battery). I disconnected the alternator from the    electrical system and the ammeter showed a steady 5 amp discharge so it    appears it is a alternator problem.

   



   I'm at the limit of what I can do. Someone suggested I add a capacitor to    smooth out the voltage but that seems like a fix for the symptoms not the    problem. I'm afraid to fly out of the pattern with this going on. Does anyone    have any ideas on what else I can check or what the problem is????

   



   Thanks

   



   Rick Neilsen

   Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



 	  Quote: 	
		  



="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	


 [quote][b]

- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:39 pm Post subject: Electrical Problem

All good suggestions. The unregulated AC voltage is app .5 volts low of the range GP specified for the alternator at 2500 RPM  I assumed it might be a measurement error but? I do have a oil filter mount drilled, tapped, then bolted into the Diel accessory case in the area of the alternator. Again cold not running the alternator wires don't show any grounding but hot and running there could be a intermittent grounding. I will pull the bolts and shorten them a bit. 



The alternator is pretty simple. Nothing electronic is internal in the alternator, just windings and magnets. Two wires go to the regulator one additional lead on the regulator feeds DC power. Grounding is provided by the mounting lugs.

 



One suggested that maybe the battery is a bit old and causing the problem. The problem started about the time I replaced the battery so maybe that is the cause. Batteries are inexpensive so worth replacing.

 



I see two solid suggestions to check out next spring. Thanks for the help. Any other suggestions?

Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



 



On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 8:40 PM,  <HGRAFF(at)aol.com (HGRAFF(at)aol.com)> wrote:

[quote]      A very interesting situation! My guess is, it's a problem with the  voltage sensing lead. I don't know the type of rectifier/regulator you have, but  most have a sense input that actually allows a connection all the way to the  battery, to get the best voltage regulation there at the battery. A cheaper way  would be to connect the sense wire to the regulator output, right near the  regulator itself. I have a suspicion that the sense wire might just be open.  Since you reported nice steady 29 volt AC input to the regulator, changed the  regulator itself, the only other source of problem behavior is the wiring.

  

 HerbG

  

  In a message dated 10/23/2013 4:49:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  neilsenrm(at)gmail.com (neilsenrm(at)gmail.com) writes:

 

 	  Quote: 	
		     I have been fighting a new electrical issue on my VW powered Kolb    MKIIIC half the summer. My ammeter flutters from 10 amps plus to 10 amps minus    at cruise RPMs. The engine runs fine and even flies great but the ammeter is    try to warn me something is wrong. Talking to Steve Bennet at Great Plains    Aircraft (he sells the alternator) he says that this will happen if the    alternator regulator isn't properly grounded and that there is a diagnostic    guide at the Kohler Engine web site for their V twin engines that is useful.    It looks like the same alternator.    



   Anyway I have replaced the regulator, cleaned bolts and stand offs where    the regulator is bolted to the Diel accessory case, replaced the ammeter, and    added an additional ground wire from the regulator to the engine case. I have    checked the AC running voltage unregulated from the alternator (29VAC),    verified there is no grounding of the alternator power wires (I will check    next spring if there is a grounding when hot), the voltage regulator is    grounded (seem like is showed .002 ohms) between the regulator and (the engine    and also the ground on the battery). I disconnected the alternator from the    electrical system and the ammeter showed a steady 5 amp discharge so it    appears it is a alternator problem.

   



   I'm at the limit of what I can do. Someone suggested I add a capacitor to    smooth out the voltage but that seems like a fix for the symptoms not the    problem. I'm afraid to fly out of the pattern with this going on. Does anyone    have any ideas on what else I can check or what the problem is????

   



   Thanks

   



   Rick Neilsen

   Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC

 	  Quote: 	
		  



="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	


  	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




[b]

- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:43 pm Post subject: Electrical Problem

Hi Rick,

 Have a friend with a Preceptor pup /2180 VW power and that alternator system inside that mount/cover .The starter bolt just touched the windings on the stator,and it took a lot of hours before the tail of the bolt wore through the varnish insulating coating on one of the wire windings.Just thought maybe might be something  there.

  

     G.A.

  

     

  

    --

- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:29 am Post subject: Electrical Problem

Gary



I wish I could make a quick trip to the airport to look at the starter bolts but it seems like the starter bolts are well outside the diameter of the alternator. I will check that also when I get back to Michigan in the spring.

 



Thanks

Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIC



On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Gary Aman <zeprep251(at)aol.com (zeprep251(at)aol.com)> wrote:

 [quote]   Hi Rick,

 Have a friend with a Preceptor pup /2180 VW power and that alternator system inside that mount/cover .The starter bolt just touched the windings on the stator,and it took a lot of hours before the tail of the bolt wore through the varnish insulating coating on one of the wire windings.Just thought maybe might be something  there.

   

     G.A.

  

     

  

    --

- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:59 pm Post subject: Electrical Problem

Well, I know where you are now! Enjoy!

 G.A.

   

  

     

  

    --

- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum