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Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine

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dforney(at)bctonline.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:03 pm Post subject: Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine

I am looking for feedback from anyone that has experience with Corvair engines in specifically the Zenith 601XL.  I would like to know your opinion of that engine as an option for that aircraft.  I would greatly appreciate any actual experienced performance specs that you could provide (i.e. average cruise speed, climb speed, fuel consumption, etc.).  

   

Any regrets?  

   

Any suggestions or cautions?  

   

Thanks,  

   

Dan  

       [quote][b]

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject: Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine

hey Dan I just finished one and learned a lot and I am doing 2 more as we  speak. If you would like to talk give me a call my cell is 502-644-8123.

  

 Jeff



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:12 pm Post subject: Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine

These are the numbers for Phil Maxson's 601XL (from the  archives):

  

 "Corvair, 164 cubic inch, front start, WW conversion,  Elison EFS-3A Carb Warp Drive Prop, Set to 8.5 degrees Empty Weight: 777 pounds  Gross Weight: 1320 pounds Cruise Speed: 125 mph, 3100 rpm, Std atmospheric  conditions, gross weight Fuel Burn: 5.5 gph Other factors: nose wheel, no wheel  pants, no brake line fairings, no fairing on the steps Climb: 1200 fpm. This is  the first set-up I've tried. I want to put on wheel pants and fairings this  winter, as well as change the prop pitch a little. The climb performance is  overwhelming, but I believe it is robbing me of top end performance. I am also  interested in using an Sensenich wood prop, but I don't know when that will  happen."

  

 Phil will probably chime in but you can reach him  direct at pmaxpmax(at)HOTMAIL.COM.

  

 If you have missed it, Rick Lindstrom is doing a multi-part  article in Kitplanes magazine on his 601XL. It is now flying so you might  contact him for numbers.

  

 Charles Leonard's 601XL just took to the air two weeks ago.  Ask him what his early impressions are are  cleonard52(at)comcast.net.

  

 www.flycorvair.com/hangar0607d.jpg

  

 And there is the Corvaircraft-specific e-mail list  at:

  

 www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html

  

 P.S. You would be wise to keep Jeff (Afterfxllc(at)aol.com (Afterfxllc(at)aol.com)) at arm's length. He admits he is making and  selling rip-offs of William Wynne's designs and has been kicked-off the  Corvaircraft list for doing so. You can read William Wynne's take on this at the  links below:

  

 http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar0207.html (look  towards the bottom under "Last Week's Internet Saga")

 www.flycorvair.com/hangar0407.html (half  way down the page)

  

 Jeff's denials of all this are always good reading.  

  

 -- Craig

  

   [quote][b]

Kevin Bonds

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Nashville, Tn

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:47 pm Post subject: Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine

Be aware. It seems to be in fashion for some Johnny-come-lately to sell completed Corvair engines these days. There are people out there that think just because they have put together a single engine (which I have not)--following another guys plans—that qualifies them to now assemble and sell them to others. Do your homework and assemble your engine yourself or buy from someone with proven skills; a long track record of success; and integrity that will stand behind there commitment to you (i.e William Wynne). Those of us who have paid attention, for some time now, to the movement, have seen problems crop up. There may be more still to come. Get involved. Stay informed. Don’t get left out when some charlatan--who is just in it for a quick buck—decides to take his profits and leave town the next time a problem arises or his engines begin showing problems.      

     

Kevin Bonds  

Nashville TN  

601XL; Plans building.  

http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds  

   

do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE   

     

   

    

   

  

        

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Forney

 Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 11:02 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine  

  

   

I am looking for feedback from anyone that has experience with Corvair engines in specifically the Zenith 601XL.  I would like to know your opinion of that engine as an option for that aircraft.  I would greatly appreciate any actual experienced performance specs that you could provide (i.e. average cruise speed, climb speed, fuel consumption, etc.).  

   

Any regrets?  

   

Any suggestions or cautions?  

   

Thanks,  

   

Dan   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4

       [quote][b]

_________________
KevinBonds
Nashville, TN
Plans-building Zenith CH601XL w/Corvair Power
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:42 am Post subject: Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine

TOOO funny Craig But it does seem like William changed the way he did  business so I guess I did make an impact. I was the only one with balls enough  to go against the self proclaimed god of the corvair. I do hope he keeps it up  so I don't have to start selling the knock off's of his parts that he knocks off  from everyone else.

 BTW we figured out how to make Williams deep oil pan NOT leak. 

  

 Good times 



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:56 am Post subject: Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine

As I said, your responses  are always amusing - still the center of your universe I see.

  

 William is always  changing his business. This last round has more to do with changes in the lives  of his hanger crew and his new marriage than the slimy stuff you are  doing.

  

 -- Craig

  

   [quote][b]

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:26 am Post subject: Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine

Hey Guys,



I’ve been reading posts from people waiting for WW’s parts long after 

fronting the cash and that can be a serious problem. If someone else 

engages production of another engine derived of the Corvair without 

selling WW’s intellectual property, there should be no issues. 

Competition is good in engines, VW, Chevy, etc, but when intellectual 

property, not to be confused with “box technology” is being sold by 

someone other than the owner, legal action can easily be taken by or on 

behalf of WW.



Just an opinion of course,



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com <http://www.macsmachine.com/>



Do not archive



Craig Payne wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   As I said, your responses are always amusing - still the center of 

 your universe I see.

 William is always changing his business. This last round has more to 

 do with changes in the lives of his hanger crew and his new marriage 

 than the slimy stuff you are doing.

 -- Craig

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine

Yup Craig I'm glad you are amused. I am amused every time I see some poor  builder out there waiting for their parts that they paid for over 9 months ago  while William is out on vacation. You must be one of those guys that would  follow someone off a cliff. The good news is that I did make molds and jigs off  Williams parts and I won't have to wait 9 months for him to quit talking about  himself and make my parts I will make them myself and finish my project on my  schedule not Williams.

 As far as the other list I have no desire to be on it. I found it quit  amusing that I got kicked off but from what I understand it isn't a corvair list  it is a WW list. I own several big web sites and if I wanted to be on that list  I would be on it. 

 I have finished and flown my first 601 XL with a corvair and I am building  2 more. I found several flaws in Williams way of doing things but of course I am  not William so anything I would want to contribute would be pointless. And no  Craig that isn't me in the pic.

  

 

  



See what's free at AOL.com.

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Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:52 am Post subject: Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine

I'm not sure if someone is inferring I'm selling corvair engines but I'm  not nor do I plan on it. I am however making my own parts and I haven't sold  anything to anyone that I have made from Williams parts.

  



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject: Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine

purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:13 pm Post subject: Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine

Dont't forget Harley-Davison, Dewalt ,they also have the same mind set,It's 

all there's!!!    Joe N101 HD  P.S the cooler is on looks Great with your 

intake and louvers, going to do a re start in a couple of days and see what 

the air flow under the plane is with the Prince-P Tip . Will send pict soon

---

leinad

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 283
Location: Central Virginia

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine

Dan,

I haven't flown my XL/Corvair yet but I've gone through the same decision making process that you're going through now.

I think the Corvair is a great fit for the XL.   100  HP at 2800 RPM, and 220 pounds is comparable to other recommended engines.  There are now about 12 flying XL/Corvairs and many more  under construction.

There is really no better match to the XL for the money.  I've only spent around 4500 and my engine has been completely rebuilt and modified for aircraft use.

The draw backs are that you'll have to build the engine yourself from a core of a car engine that hasn't been built for a really long time. 



As far as the controversy sourounding people who would "rip off" his design, I'd like to make some observations from my own experience.  In my opinion William is a strange kind of business man.  To me, it seams like he puts every one he deals with in either the "freind" box of the "enemy" box, no in between.

When I first ordered his conversion manual I was getting emails and even a phone call from William to ask if I had recieved it yet, and to invite me to ask any questions I had.  So when I got and read the manual I sent him some questions.  I asked him for dimensions that were missing from his parts drawings and for a drawing of necessary part that was completely missing from the book.   At this point I got the cold shoulder.  Even though all my correspondences were polite and in no way beligerent, I never heard from him again.   His conversion manual was part philosophy, part sales brochure for his parts.  The usefull information you could some up in few paragraphs.  As an experienced machinist I really wasn't interested in buying simple parts that I could easily make myself.

So my advice is that if you don't want to design and make your own parts, stay on Williams good side.   Oh, most of the parts you'll need you'd get from Corvair parts distributors like Clarke's.

Ok,, Hope I don't get thrown off the Corvair list for my heresy.

Dan Dempsey

_________________
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine

btucke73(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine

Dan,



     I have been flying my HDS / Corvair taildragger

since November.  It is a perfect match.  See:



http://zenvair.com/



     The top one is mine on the first flight.  See

also here:



http://mcgirt.net/~ars2006/ars2006/Desktop.html



     Mine is 700# and cruises at 120 mph.  I have 600

x 6 (big) tires, and have not cleaned up the

aerodynamics at all.  I think with considerable

effort, I might get it up to 130, but am too busy

flying it to work on it.  Just like many on the list,

I did wait a good amount of time for my parts, but I

think William has fixed most of the issues.  In my

opinion, there is no better cost to dependability

ratio engine for this aircraft.  I have $5000 firewall

forward.  



     Jeff is not the only one with "the balls" enoungh

to call out William.  I foolishly complained online

about the time it took to get my parts.  He called me

personally to apologize for the delay, and did get me

the parts just when I needed them.  The best advice is

to order the parts well ahead of time.  Few of us

would follow William off a cliff, but most of us would

gladly buy him a beer for proving and simplifying what

is often one of the most daunting experiments in

experimental aviation - the engine installation.  



     I stopped monitoring the list weeks ago because

of Jeff (and life and work getting too busy).  I poked

back in for 5 minutes tonight to find that he is still

at it.  Maybe he has posted some usefull information

while I was gone, but I doubt it.  Every community has

it's resident asshole.  You have now met ours...



R/



Brandon Tucker

601 HDS / TD / Corvair

96 hours

Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!   http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7

Kemter

Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Cibolo, TX

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine

Speaking of Corvairs, does anybody have a detailed spreadsheet of the itemized parts and  sources used to make the Corvair engine flight worthy?  I'd like to figure out a more current bottom line rebuild cost and don't have the time to look stuff up online right now due to being deployed with the big green machine to Afghanistan.



Thanks in advance for the help.

Jim K. 

email: james (dot) kemter (at) us.army.mil

do not archive

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine

 	  Quote: 	
		   Speaking of Corvairs, does anybody have a detailed spreadsheet of the

itemized parts and  sources used to make the Corvair engine flight worthy?
	




This is out of date but a start:



http://www.experimental-aviation.com/Corvair/Engine_cost.html



-- Craig

pmaxpmax(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:54 am Post subject: Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine

The performance numbers I posted last year still remain true, except for one interesting fact.  I picked up about 100 RPM more and about 5 mph increase in speed as the engine broke in.  I now have about 130 hours on it and it is performing flawlessly.  The people at fly-ins and at my local field always comment on the climb performance.  It is excellent.

  

 I built my engine in William's hangar, and finished my plane in his hangar before there was flywithgus.com.  It was a great experience and I recommend it to anyone.  William has always done the right thing by me, and he always has an answer for problems when they arise.  Attend his presentations at Sun-n-Fun or Oshkosh, attend a Corvair College and see for yourself.  The Corvair engine is not for everyone, but it is working out well for me any my family.



Phil Maxson

 601XL/Corvair

 Northwest New Jersey

  	  Quote: 	
		    From: craig(at)craigandjean.com

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Zenith 601XL and Corvair Engine

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 23:08:51 -0600



   (at)page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in;} .ExternalClass EC_P.MsoNormal {font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman';} .ExternalClass EC_LI.MsoNormal {font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman';} .ExternalClass EC_DIV.MsoNormal {font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman';} .ExternalClass EC_A:link {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass EC_SPAN.MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass EC_A:visited {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass EC_SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass EC_SPAN.EmailStyle17 {color:windowtext;font-family:Arial;} .ExternalClass EC_DIV.Section1 {page:Section1;}   These are the numbers for Phil Maxson's 601XL (from the archives):

  

 "Corvair, 164 cubic inch, front start, WW conversion, Elison EFS-3A Carb Warp Drive Prop, Set to 8.5 degrees Empty Weight: 777 pounds Gross Weight: 1320 pounds Cruise Speed: 125 mph, 3100 rpm, Std atmospheric conditions, gross weight Fuel Burn: 5.5 gph Other factors: nose wheel, no wheel pants, no brake line fairings, no fairing on the steps Climb: 1200 fpm. This is the first set-up I've tried. I want to put on wheel pants and fairings this winter, as well as change the prop pitch a little. The climb performance is overwhelming, but I believe it is robbing me of top end performance. I am also interested in using an Sensenich wood prop, but I don't know when that will happen."

  

 <<SNIP>>

	
Make every IM count. Download Windows Live Messenger and join the i’m Initiative now. It’s free.  Make it count!  [quote][b]

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