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Control cables for 601XL

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lwinger

Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 229
Location: Tustin, CA

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: Control cables for 601XL

The plans (6-B-23) say 1/8" 7x19 Galvanized control cables.  The folks in the shop at Zenith say they are using stainless steel.  



Stainless steel makes sense to me as well.  Any reason not to use it?

_________________
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair
Installing fuel system
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: Control cables for 601XL

use the 7x19 aviation grade. they are grease impregnated.



Juan



--

lwinger

Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 229
Location: Tustin, CA

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject: Control cables for 601XL

I'm planning to purchase my cable from Aircraft Spruce, so I'm making an assumption that it is aviation grade as you described.  If so, any thoughts on stainless steel in place of the specified galvanized?

   

 Larry Winger

 601XL/Corvair

 Tustin, CA



 

 On 7/31/07, Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net (amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net)> wrote: [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net  (amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net)>



use the 7x19 aviation grade. they are grease impregnated.



Juan



--

_________________
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair
Installing fuel system
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:36 am Post subject: Control cables for 601XL

check with zenith but I beleieve I used GLAV 7x19 with 2000Lb strength versus SS7x19 with 1750 lbs strength.

Jaun



--

lwinger

Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 229
Location: Tustin, CA

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:01 am Post subject: Control cables for 601XL

Juan, 

  

 If you look at my first post, you'll see that I did call Zenith and that stimulated my question to the list.  The person in the shop was almost positive they were using stainless steel.  Obviously, I didn't get my answer from the designer or an engineer.  Maybe that is my next step (or I can just use galvanized to be safe). 

  

 Thanks,

 Larry Winger



 

 On 8/1/07, Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net (amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net)> wrote: [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net  (amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net)>



check with zenith but I beleieve I used GLAV 7x19 with 2000Lb strength versus SS7x19 with 1750 lbs strength.

Jaun



--

_________________
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair
Installing fuel system
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger

wjones(at)brazoriainet.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:02 am Post subject: Control cables for 601XL

Larry from my standpoint ,either one is good and  both are approved for certified aircraft . With any type of care they will  outlast the airframe .My Tripacer is 48 years old ,I live 12 miles inland from  the gulf of Mexico (very corrosive) and with little care my galvanized cables  are still looking good..If you go the S.S. route  use the correct nicopress  fitting ,do not use the copper .

 Wade Jones    South Texas 

601XL plans building

Cont.  0200

 [quote]   ---

paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:46 am Post subject: Control cables for 601XL

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Sort of a side issue-----  While I wouldn't advocate using string or  safety wire for control cables, it does seem a bit of overkill to use a cable  stronger than the max gross weight of the aircraft. It's not possible, even  under high adrenalin situations, to exert anywhere near breaking strength of the  cable, particularly sitting in the cockpit.  If anything, you'd rip the  control surface apart first, assuming you could maintain that much air load on  the part. Same goes for turnbuckles. Do we really need 900 pound  breaking-strength turnbuckles on an elevator we could put, at most, 200 pounds  of backstick pull?

  

 Paul Rodriguez

 601XL/Corvair

 Canopy getting close to done

 [quote]   ---

david_a_g_johnson(at)btin
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:22 am Post subject: Control cables for 601XL

remember the leverage available, I reckon that the  elevator has a leverage of about 2.5 to 1, so a pull of 200lbs will give a load  of around 500lbs on the cable. The leverage on the rudder pedals is less, but  you can exert a LOT more pressure with your feet! I weigh about 200lbs, when I  go upstairs I am pressing with 200lbs with each foot in turn, without much  effort - i would be able to push a lot harder than that with the right  incentive.

  

 Dave Johnson

  

 601XL

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:39 am Post subject: Control cables for 601XL

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  More or less true, but consider a: how fast must you go to exert  an  over 200 pound air load on something as small as a rudder? b: Even if you were  going that fast, you'd certainly bend the rudder or tear off the horn before  failing the cable. It's something like fishing for trout with a tow truck and a  log chain

  

 Paul R

 [quote]   ---

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:00 am Post subject: Control cables for 601XL

The overall breaking strength of the cable is not the only criteria 

involved. You want to have a generous safety factor built in and there 

is the matter of abrasion resistance. If the cable for some reason 

starts wearing against something to the extent that some of the wires in 

the cable are damaged, you don't want the cable to fail catastrophically 

before the damage can be discovered during an inspection on the ground. 

That's why there is a minimum size required for control cables on 

certificated aircraft.



paulrod36(at)msn.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Sort of a side issue-----  While I wouldn't advocate using string or 

 safety wire for control cables, it does seem a bit of overkill to use a 

 cable stronger than the max gross weight of the aircraft. It's not 

 possible, even under high adrenalin situations, to exert anywhere near 

 breaking strength of the cable, particularly sitting in the cockpit.  If 

 anything, you'd rip the control surface apart first, assuming you could 

 maintain that much air load on the part. Same goes for turnbuckles. Do 

 we really need 900 pound breaking-strength turnbuckles on an elevator we 

 could put, at most, 200 pounds of backstick pull?

  


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

Do Not Archive

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:31 am Post subject: Control cables for 601XL

I'm not an A&P or an authority of any note but I have been told that these cables are overkill-sized in order to minimize their stretching and springing back and forth like a bungee. The concept as told to me is to have something (A) strong enough to be very unlikley to fail under tension loads, (B) heavy enough to withstand surface wear (as you mentioned), and also (C) dimensionally stable in the longitudinal axis to make tension adjustment feasible. 



Personally, I just trust that CH chose and or approved the choice of cable and apparently his planes aren't falling out of the sky due to cable failure. I'm reluctant to second guess the issue beyond that point. Just my two cents worth (and probably over-priced at that).



Dred



---- Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 The overall breaking strength of the cable is not the only criteria 

 involved. You want to have a generous safety factor built in and there 

 is the matter of abrasion resistance. If the cable for some reason 

 starts wearing against something to the extent that some of the wires in 

 the cable are damaged, you don't want the cable to fail catastrophically 

 before the damage can be discovered during an inspection on the ground. 

 That's why there is a minimum size required for control cables on 

 certificated aircraft.

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: Control cables for 601XL

sounds good, good luck.



Juan



--

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:38 am Post subject: Control cables for 601XL

Hi Paul;

   

  One of the issues involved with sizing control cables is strain (stretch) before reaching breaking loads. You want the control system to be as inflexible as possible because flutter is inherent in any less than optimally stiff system.

   

  Sometime read the account of what happened when the folks back at Wright Patterson labs in Dayton got hold of their first Zero during WWII.



paulrod36(at)msn.com wrote:

  [quote]      <?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->    Sort of a side issue-----  While I wouldn't advocate using string or safety wire for control cables, it does seem a bit of overkill to use a cable stronger than the max gross weight of the aircraft.  It's not possible, even under high adrenalin situations, to exert anywhere near breaking strength of the cable, particularly sitting in the cockpit.  If anything, you'd rip the control surface apart first, assuming you could maintain that much air load on the part. Same goes for turnbuckles. Do we really need 900 pound breaking-strength turnbuckles on an elevator we could put, at most, 200 pounds of backstick pull?

   

  Paul Rodriguez

  601XL/Corvair

  Canopy getting close to done

  [quote]  ---

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