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Andair valves

 
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pequeajim



Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:23 pm    Post subject: Andair valves Reply with quote

You folks that have used the andair fuel valves in your Lightning, can you tell me which model you used?
Also, what fittings did you use?
Thanks
Jim! [quote][b]


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:29 am    Post subject: Andair valves Reply with quote

Jim,

Consider the FS20x3 and FS20x7. I believe that both Linda Mathais and Joe Cooper used the FS20x7.

Go to their web site http://www.andair.co.uk/system/index.html and you can configure the valve just about any way you like. I suggest that you configure it with either 1/8 NPT or ¼ NPT female fittings on all sides. This way you can use inexpensive brass elbows (90 & 45 with a ¼ barb on the other end) to connect up to the fuel line supplied with the kit. If I had my choice I’d use the 1/8 NPT fitting at least on the inlets because the 1/8 brass elbows are smaller and you’re working with limited space in the center console.

These options weren’t available when working with Joe and Linda’s planes. We had to buy reducers from AN6 fittings to ¼ barbs. It works just fine but is bulky and adds weight.

Hope this helps.

Mark

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 10:22 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Andair valves



You folks that have used the andair fuel valves in your Lightning, can you tell me which model you used?
Also, what fittings did you use?
Thanks
Jim!
Quote:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
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[quote][b]


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N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:50 am    Post subject: Andair valves Reply with quote

I used the new FS20x7 model and think it is the way to go. The difference is it only requires a 90 degree turn from left to right tank, verses a 180 degree turn on the FS20x3. I think I got one of the first ones of these, but had to get it directly from England as they were not yet available in the US at the time. Works great.

Another thought - the practice of using two "ON -OFF" fuel valves leave the possibility of having two tanks on at the same time. OK in a high wing aircraft, but a potential problem in a low wing aircraft. Low wing aircraft should generally not have a both position. Why? If you have both tanks selected on a low wing aircraft and one tank runs dry the engine will likely starve for fuel. Why? Well, which is it easier for the engine fuel pump to "suck" to the engine, air or fuel? You "flame out" with perfectly good fuel on board.

Blue Skies,
Buz

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dashvii(at)hotmail.com
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:28 am    Post subject: Andair valves Reply with quote

Buz,
I can certainly tell you that I wished that I had that fuel selector. On
one of my Lightning flights I had left both fuel tanks to the open position
and ran for about 3-4 hours, then did a touch and go and rolled onto
crosswind and the engine started to go at 500 feet. Rolled wings level and
it smoothed out, made that my final stop. On the ground I found one tank
dry and one tank nearly completely full, so it really doesn't even burn from
both very evenly if you leave it in that config.

Also, don't you have on that fuel selector something that keeps it from
rotating if you bump it? Like you have to pull out and rotate or push a
button or something? Just thought I remembered that. Brian W.
From: N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Reply-To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Andair valves
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 09:49:36 EDT

I used the new FS20x7 model and think it is the way to go. The difference
is it only requires a 90 degree turn from left to right tank, verses a 180
degree turn on the FS20x3. I think I got one of the first ones of these,
but
had to get it directly from England as they were not yet available in the
US at
the time. Works great.

Another thought - the practice of using two "ON -OFF" fuel valves leave the
possibility of having two tanks on at the same time. OK in a high wing
aircraft, but a potential problem in a low wing aircraft. Low wing
aircraft
should generally not have a both position. Why? If you have both tanks
selected
on a low wing aircraft and one tank runs dry the engine will likely starve
for fuel. Why? Well, which is it easier for the engine fuel pump to
"suck" to
the engine, air or fuel? You "flame out" with perfectly good fuel on
board.
Blue Skies,
Buz

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:00 am    Post subject: Andair valves Reply with quote

Hi Brian,
What you are remembering is the pull knob that you must pull to select the off position. When selecting right or left tank you don't need to pull it, but there is a definite detent feel when you are in the correct left or right position.
How are things in Texas? Doing any flying?
Buz


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:42 pm    Post subject: Andair valves Reply with quote

[quote] Jim,

Mark and Buz' info was right on; one further suggestion: buy it from Aircraft Spruce if you can. We ordered ours from the UK and with the weak dollar, it cost us a lot more than we would have paid in the US.

Linda
[quote] ---


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pequeajim



Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:43 pm    Post subject: Andair valves Reply with quote

Thanks guys.  That is what I will order.

Jim!


From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Stauffer
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 9:24 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Andair valves


Jim,

Consider the FS20x3 and FS20x7. I believe that both Linda Mathais and Joe Cooper used the FS20x7.

Go to their web site http://www.andair.co.uk/system/index.html and you can configure the valve just about any way you like. I suggest that you configure it with either 1/8 NPT or ¼ NPT female fittings on all sides. This way you can use inexpensive brass elbows (90 & 45 with a ¼ barb on the other end) to connect up to the fuel line supplied with the kit. If I had my choice I’d use the 1/8 NPT fitting at least on the inlets because the 1/8 brass elbows are smaller and you’re working with limited space in the center console.

These options weren’t available when working with Joe and Linda’s planes. We had to buy reducers from AN6 fittings to ¼ barbs. It works just fine but is bulky and adds weight.

Hope this helps.

Mark

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 10:22 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Andair valves



You folks that have used the andair fuel valves in your Lightning, can you tell me which model you used?
Also, what fittings did you use?
Thanks
Jim!
Quote:
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:39 pm    Post subject: Andair valves Reply with quote

Buz,
Yes, that was it, so that you didn't accidentally put it in the off
position. Knew I remembered something like that and that would make sense.

I am doing some flying here. Right now I'm working doing aerial photography
part time. I also am biting the bullet finally and am going to finish my
CFI. I already have a job lined up when I finish that. I am lacking about
50 hours multi time to go to the regionals, but will probably do a lot of
dual given and work towards one day doing Southwest Airlines. I know a
couple of SWA pilots here and I do a lot better with their personalities
than airline pilots of other airlines. Instructors get paid really well
here though and there seems to be great demand, and I'm okay with teaching
for a few years to come.

I do have to admit, I am missing going from a sporty performer like the
Lightning to a heavy handed plane like the Arrow, or the Cessna Skychicken.
They're good solid planes and have never let me down, but just don't have
the performance and manueverability like the Lightning. Still, can't
complain too much, it's going to keep me flying for years to come and bring
in a little money too! Thanks for asking, Brian W.
From: N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Reply-To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Andair valves
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 11:49:57 EDT

Hi Brian,
What you are remembering is the pull knob that you must pull to select
the off position. When selecting right or left tank you don't need to pull
it, but there is a definite detent feel when you are in the correct left or
right position.
How are things in Texas? Doing any flying?
Buz


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pequeajim



Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:33 pm    Post subject: Andair valves Reply with quote

Buz:

What size fittings and type, (male/female) did you put in?

I like the idea of female on the valve.

Jim!


From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 9:50 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Andair valves


I used the new FS20x7 model and think it is the way to go. The difference is it only requires a 90 degree turn from left to right tank, verses a 180 degree turn on the FS20x3. I think I got one of the first ones of these, but had to get it directly from England as they were not yet available in the US at the time. Works great.



Another thought - the practice of using two "ON -OFF" fuel valves leave the possibility of having two tanks on at the same time. OK in a high wing aircraft, but a potential problem in a low wing aircraft. Low wing aircraft should generally not have a both position. Why? If you have both tanks selected on a low wing aircraft and one tank runs dry the engine will likely starve for fuel. Why? Well, which is it easier for the engine fuel pump to "suck" to the engine, air or fuel? You "flame out" with perfectly good fuel on board.



Blue Skies,

Buz





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[quote]

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

[b]


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:21 pm    Post subject: Andair valves Reply with quote

In a message dated 8/4/2007 9:34:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pequeajim(at)gmail.com writes:
Quote:

What size fittings and type, (male/female) did you put in?


Jim.
I have racked my brain, and just can't remember right now. I will have to look through my many photo files to see it I have one that shows. But my suggestion would be to go with what Mark mentioned in his answer. They are the guys that work with this kind of thing all the time.
Blue Skies,
Buz

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pequeajim



Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:01 pm    Post subject: Andair valves Reply with quote

Mark:

Will the 1/8 NPT fittings still allow enough fuel flow?

Linda; do you remember what size fittings are on your selector valve?

Jim!


From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Stauffer
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 9:24 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Andair valves


Jim,

Consider the FS20x3 and FS20x7. I believe that both Linda Mathais and Joe Cooper used the FS20x7.

Go to their web site http://www.andair.co.uk/system/index.html and you can configure the valve just about any way you like. I suggest that you configure it with either 1/8 NPT or ¼ NPT female fittings on all sides. This way you can use inexpensive brass elbows (90 & 45 with a ¼ barb on the other end) to connect up to the fuel line supplied with the kit. If I had my choice I’d use the 1/8 NPT fitting at least on the inlets because the 1/8 brass elbows are smaller and you’re working with limited space in the center console.

These options weren’t available when working with Joe and Linda’s planes. We had to buy reducers from AN6 fittings to ¼ barbs. It works just fine but is bulky and adds weight.

Hope this helps.

Mark

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 10:22 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Andair valves



You folks that have used the andair fuel valves in your Lightning, can you tell me which model you used?
Also, what fittings did you use?
Thanks
Jim!
Quote:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
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http://forums.matronics.com
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pequeajim



Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:02 pm    Post subject: Andair valves Reply with quote

Sorry, scratch that last question to Linda. Mark you had already answered it.

Jim!


From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Stauffer
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 9:24 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Andair valves


Jim,

Consider the FS20x3 and FS20x7. I believe that both Linda Mathais and Joe Cooper used the FS20x7.

Go to their web site http://www.andair.co.uk/system/index.html and you can configure the valve just about any way you like. I suggest that you configure it with either 1/8 NPT or ¼ NPT female fittings on all sides. This way you can use inexpensive brass elbows (90 & 45 with a ¼ barb on the other end) to connect up to the fuel line supplied with the kit. If I had my choice I’d use the 1/8 NPT fitting at least on the inlets because the 1/8 brass elbows are smaller and you’re working with limited space in the center console.

These options weren’t available when working with Joe and Linda’s planes. We had to buy reducers from AN6 fittings to ¼ barbs. It works just fine but is bulky and adds weight.

Hope this helps.

Mark

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 10:22 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Andair valves



You folks that have used the andair fuel valves in your Lightning, can you tell me which model you used?
Also, what fittings did you use?
Thanks
Jim!
Quote:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
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http://forums.matronics.com
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pequeajim



Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:53 pm    Post subject: Andair valves Reply with quote

Thanks Buz. I think I am going to go with the one that Mark mentioned, but would like to stay with the larger female fittings. I’m afraid to go to osmall with the fittings as I do not want to cut down on the fuel flow.

Jim!


From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 4:20 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Andair valves


In a message dated 8/4/2007 9:34:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pequeajim(at)gmail.com writes:
Quote:

What size fittings and type, (male/female) did you put in?


Jim.

I have racked my brain, and just can't remember right now. I will have to look through my many photo files to see it I have one that shows. But my suggestion would be to go with what Mark mentioned in his answer. They are the guys that work with this kind of thing all the time.

Blue Skies,

Buz





Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

[quote]

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

[b]


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:24 pm    Post subject: Andair valves Reply with quote

Jim,

The Facet fuel pump has 1/8 fittings in which you’ll install the 1/8 NPT to ¼ barb. I’ve installed these fittings on 10 planes so far with no problems. It shouldn’t be an issue to use the 1/8 NPT fittings on the fuel selector valve. If you’d like a point of reference take a look at the ¼ NPT 90 elbows compared to the 1/8 NPT to 90 elbows. Both have ¼ barbs on the other side. In tight spaces such as the center fuel console I think the 1/8 NPT will give you a little more space to work with.

Hope this helps.

Mark

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 10:52 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Andair valves



Thanks Buz. I think I am going to go with the one that Mark mentioned, but would like to stay with the larger female fittings. I’m afraid to go to osmall with the fittings as I do not want to cut down on the fuel flow.

Jim!


From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 4:20 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Andair valves


In a message dated 8/4/2007 9:34:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pequeajim(at)gmail.com writes:
Quote:

What size fittings and type, (male/female) did you put in?


Jim.

I have racked my brain, and just can't remember right now. I will have to look through my many photo files to see it I have one that shows. But my suggestion would be to go with what Mark mentioned in his answer. They are the guys that work with this kind of thing all the time.

Blue Skies,

Buz





Quote:
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:50 am    Post subject: Andair valves Reply with quote

Jim,

There are 1400 Jabiru airplanes flying around the world with 1/8 NPT fittings plus several hundred Zenith 601’s with our FWF kit that uses the same size.  In fuel flow tests we see a flow of twice the expected high use.  1/8 NPT x ¼ hose is sufficient.

Pete


From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 10:01 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Andair valves


Mark:

Will the 1/8 NPT fittings still allow enough fuel flow?

Linda; do you remember what size fittings are on your selector valve?

Jim!


From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Stauffer
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 9:24 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Andair valves


Jim,

Consider the FS20x3 and FS20x7. I believe that both Linda Mathais and Joe Cooper used the FS20x7.

Go to their web site http://www.andair.co.uk/system/index.html and you can configure the valve just about any way you like. I suggest that you configure it with either 1/8 NPT or ¼ NPT female fittings on all sides. This way you can use inexpensive brass elbows (90 & 45 with a ¼ barb on the other end) to connect up to the fuel line supplied with the kit. If I had my choice I’d use the 1/8 NPT fitting at least on the inlets because the 1/8 brass elbows are smaller and you’re working with limited space in the center console.

These options weren’t available when working with Joe and Linda’s planes. We had to buy reducers from AN6 fittings to ¼ barbs. It works just fine but is bulky and adds weight.

Hope this helps.

Mark

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 10:22 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Andair valves



You folks that have used the andair fuel valves in your Lightning, can you tell me which model you used?
Also, what fittings did you use?
Thanks
Jim!
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pequeajim



Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:14 am    Post subject: Andair valves Reply with quote

Ok, thanks for the update Pete.

On 8/7/07, Pete <pete(at)flylightning.net (pete(at)flylightning.net)> wrote: [quote]
Jim,

There are 1400 Jabiru airplanes flying around the world with 1/8 NPT fittings plus several hundred Zenith 601's with our FWF kit that uses the same size. In fuel flow tests we see a flow of twice the expected high use. 1/8 NPT x ¼ hose is sufficient.

Pete


From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jim Langley
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 10:01 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com (lightning-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Andair valves


Mark:

Will the 1/8 NPT fittings still allow enough fuel flow?

Linda; do you remember what size fittings are on your selector valve?

Jim!


From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Mark Stauffer
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 9:24 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com (lightning-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Andair valves


Jim,

Consider the FS20x3 and FS20x7. I believe that both Linda Mathais and Joe Cooper used the FS20x7.

Go to their web site http://www.andair.co.uk/system/index.html and you can configure the valve just about any way you like. I suggest that you configure it with either 1/8 NPT or ¼ NPT female fittings on all sides. This way you can use inexpensive brass elbows (90 & 45 with a ¼ barb on the other end) to connect up to the fuel line supplied with the kit. If I had my choice I'd use the 1/8 NPT fitting at least on the inlets because the 1/8 brass elbows are smaller and you're working with limited space in the center console.

These options weren't available when working with Joe and Linda's planes. We had to buy reducers from AN6 fittings to ¼ barbs. It works just fine but is bulky and adds weight.

Hope this helps.

Mark

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jim Langley
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 10:22 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com (lightning-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Andair valves



You folks that have used the andair fuel valves in your Lightning, can you tell me which model you used?
Also, what fittings did you use?
Thanks
Jim!
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
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http://forums.matronics.com

 
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pequeajim



Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:24 pm    Post subject: Andair valves Reply with quote

Thanks for your help everyone.  I ordered the FS20F7A which has the 1/8” female fittings on the sides.  The only option for the back was the AN or ¼” size, so I picked a ¼” female fitting for the back.

Jim!





From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Stauffer
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 9:24 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Andair valves


Jim,

Consider the FS20x3 and FS20x7. I believe that both Linda Mathais and Joe Cooper used the FS20x7.

Go to their web site http://www.andair.co.uk/system/index.html and you can configure the valve just about any way you like. I suggest that you configure it with either 1/8 NPT or ¼ NPT female fittings on all sides. This way you can use inexpensive brass elbows (90 & 45 with a ¼ barb on the other end) to connect up to the fuel line supplied with the kit. If I had my choice I’d use the 1/8 NPT fitting at least on the inlets because the 1/8 brass elbows are smaller and you’re working with limited space in the center console.

These options weren’t available when working with Joe and Linda’s planes. We had to buy reducers from AN6 fittings to ¼ barbs. It works just fine but is bulky and adds weight.

Hope this helps.

Mark
[quote][b]


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