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Vince Frazier
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 132
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 Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:07 am Post subject: OMG! What is your deal? |
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SNIP "Furthermore, the O.P. said "if he flew a straight line" he didn't
come that close to the power station. Okay, but when is the last
time any of us flew perfectly along our desired flight path. I
almost never do. I might be as much as 5 miles to one side or the
other and don't really care that much. It's VFR, it's a nice day,
and I know where I am and where I'm going -- that's good enough for
me. Did the O.P. fly right over the top of that nuclear plant? We
don't know. From his report, he may not even know.
Where's the line? I don't know. I guess it depends on just how
closely he came to the power plant and how long they detained him.
And perhaps whether there had been recent intelligence of planned
attacks on nuclear power plants. 5 miles away isn't worthy of
notice. Right over the top, then yeah I think it's reasonable to at
least see who it was. And that's what they did.
-Joe " Snip
Well, I avoid personal rebuttals as much as possible, but when I say
straight line, I mean straight line. The autopilot was flying, the air
was smooth, and the course was straight. When I said in my original
post, which was sent to hopefully get folks to write their senators and
not because I wanted to start a flame war, I stated that we passed the
plant at 2500' AGL and at least one mile away at nearly 200mph. Hardly
circling or lingering in the area is it?
And if you don't know where the line is, read the FARs again. Unless
they change the advisory to an FAR, it's 500'regardless of what any
idiot on the ground might think. Not saying that 500' over a nuke plant
is a good idea, but by my understanding it's legal. That is also the
opinion of the gents at the FSS that I called immediately after the
incident to confirm that I hadn't overlooked a new TFR or rule change.
My opinion based on the number of other planes that I saw in the area is
that some other plane probably did get much closer than we were. And we
got the police visit. Maybe next time it will be you. Maybe next time
the cops won't be so friendly. Maybe you'll even get tazed or shot.
Just remember if the tazer or bullet only stays on/in your body for 5-10
minutes and not several hours then you have no reason to be upset.
So, in conclusion, I hope that many of you reading this will raise hell
with your senators and congressmen!
Vince
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_________________
Vince Frazier
3965 Caborn Road
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
812-464-1839 work
812-985-7309 home
F-1H Rocket, N540VF
http://vincesrocket.com/ |
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sportav8r(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:30 am Post subject: OMG! What is your deal? |
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Vince: there's two types here- the "choir" who already feel as you do, and a few sheeple who've already had their Kool-Aid. You will never convince the latter that erosion of liberty is their concern, and the former already know it is.
Most of us know that the people working inside a nuke containment vessel would likely be unaware of the event until later should your plane impact the wall at 200 mph, but others imbibe and regurge whatever hysteria the media dishes out. Stirring the pot here will not settle much, however passionately you feel what you have written. I've seen this played out online enough times to be cynical that you will gain much by trying to waken the sheep from their pleasant slumber. I wish it were not so...
-Stormy
On 8/31/07, Frazier, Vincent A <VFrazier(at)usi.edu (VFrazier(at)usi.edu)> wrote:[quote] --> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu (VFrazier(at)usi.edu)>
SNIP "Furthermore, the O.P. said "if he flew a straight line" he didn't
come that close to the power station. Okay, but when is the last
time any of us flew perfectly along our desired flight path. I
almost never do. I might be as much as 5 miles to one side or the
other and don't really care that much. It's VFR, it's a nice day,
and I know where I am and where I'm going -- that's good enough for
me. Did the O.P. fly right over the top of that nuclear plant? We
don't know. From his report, he may not even know.
Where's the line? I don't know. I guess it depends on just how
closely he came to the power plant and how long they detained him.
And perhaps whether there had been recent intelligence of planned
attacks on nuclear power plants. 5 miles away isn't worthy of
notice. Right over the top, then yeah I think it's reasonable to at
least see who it was. And that's what they did.
-Joe " Snip
Well, I avoid personal rebuttals as much as possible, but when I say
straight line, I mean straight line. The autopilot was flying, the air
was smooth, and the course was straight. When I said in my original
post, which was sent to hopefully get folks to write their senators and
not because I wanted to start a flame war, I stated that we passed the
plant at 2500' AGL and at least one mile away at nearly 200mph. Hardly
circling or lingering in the area is it?
And if you don't know where the line is, read the FARs again. Unless
they change the advisory to an FAR, it's 500'regardless of what any
idiot on the ground might think. Not saying that 500' over a nuke plant
is a good idea, but by my understanding it's legal. That is also the
opinion of the gents at the FSS that I called immediately after the
incident to confirm that I hadn't overlooked a new TFR or rule change.
My opinion based on the number of other planes that I saw in the area is
that some other plane probably did get much closer than we were. And we
got the police visit. Maybe next time it will be you. Maybe next time
the cops won't be so friendly. Maybe you'll even get tazed or shot.
Just remember if the tazer or bullet only stays on/in your body for 5-10
minutes and not several hours then you have no reason to be upset.
So, in conclusion, I hope that many of you reading this will raise hell
with your senators and congressmen!
Vince
[quote][b]
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jpl(at)showpage.org
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:51 am Post subject: OMG! What is your deal? |
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Ah, this is the O.P. Interesting you haven't told us how long they
talked to you. Interesting that you are assuming that because they
talked to you, they were ready to shoot you. Interesting that you
didn't know where the power station was prior to your flight (had to
look it up), but you know for sure you were at least a mile away.
I never suggested you did anything illegally. No one has suggested
that. But you were somewhere that made someone nervous, and the
police checked to see who you were. That's all they did -- they
checked to see who flew within 20 seconds (1 mile at RV speeds) of a
nuclear power plant.
Did they point their guns or tazers at you?
Were they rude and scream at you?
I think you're over-reacting. And you're most definitely trying to
sensationalize this, suggesting the cops were willing to do things
they didn't remotely do or threaten to do.
-Joe
do not archive
On Aug 31, 2007, at 9:07 AM, Frazier, Vincent A wrote:
| Quote: |
SNIP "Furthermore, the O.P. said "if he flew a straight line" he
didn't
come that close to the power station. Okay, but when is the last
time any of us flew perfectly along our desired flight path. I
almost never do. I might be as much as 5 miles to one side or the
other and don't really care that much. It's VFR, it's a nice day,
and I know where I am and where I'm going -- that's good enough for
me. Did the O.P. fly right over the top of that nuclear plant? We
don't know. From his report, he may not even know.
Where's the line? I don't know. I guess it depends on just how
closely he came to the power plant and how long they detained him.
And perhaps whether there had been recent intelligence of planned
attacks on nuclear power plants. 5 miles away isn't worthy of
notice. Right over the top, then yeah I think it's reasonable to at
least see who it was. And that's what they did.
-Joe " Snip
Well, I avoid personal rebuttals as much as possible, but when I say
straight line, I mean straight line. The autopilot was flying, the
air
was smooth, and the course was straight. When I said in my original
post, which was sent to hopefully get folks to write their senators
and
not because I wanted to start a flame war, I stated that we passed the
plant at 2500' AGL and at least one mile away at nearly 200mph.
Hardly
circling or lingering in the area is it?
And if you don't know where the line is, read the FARs again. Unless
they change the advisory to an FAR, it's 500'regardless of what any
idiot on the ground might think. Not saying that 500' over a nuke
plant
is a good idea, but by my understanding it's legal. That is also the
opinion of the gents at the FSS that I called immediately after the
incident to confirm that I hadn't overlooked a new TFR or rule change.
My opinion based on the number of other planes that I saw in the
area is
that some other plane probably did get much closer than we were.
And we
got the police visit. Maybe next time it will be you. Maybe next
time
the cops won't be so friendly. Maybe you'll even get tazed or shot.
Just remember if the tazer or bullet only stays on/in your body for
5-10
minutes and not several hours then you have no reason to be upset.
So, in conclusion, I hope that many of you reading this will raise
hell
with your senators and congressmen!
Vince
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
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Bob Collins
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:59 am Post subject: OMG! What is your deal? |
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The only time I was ever in a nuclear plant was in the late 70s -- the Millstone plant in Connecticut. I was on a press tour and we got on an elevator and when the doors opened, there were all these women (and men, though I didn't notice immediately) walking around in their underwear.
It was then and there that I decided if this radio stuff didn't work out, I would become a nuclear engineer. (g)
How 'bout them RVs.
do not archive
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 9:30 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: OMG! What is your deal?
Vince: there's two types here- the "choir" who already feel as you do, and a few sheeple who've already had their Kool-Aid. You will never convince the latter that erosion of liberty is their concern, and the former already know it is.
Most of us know that the people working inside a nuke containment vessel would likely be unaware of the event until later should your plane impact the wall at 200 mph, but others imbibe and regurge whatever hysteria the media dishes out. Stirring the pot here will not settle much, however passionately you feel what you have written. I've seen this played out online enough times to be cynical that you will gain much by trying to waken the sheep from their pleasant slumber. I wish it were not so...
-Stormy
On 8/31/07, Frazier, Vincent A <VFrazier(at)usi.edu (VFrazier(at)usi.edu)> wrote: [quote]--> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu (VFrazier(at)usi.edu)>
SNIP "Furthermore, the O.P. said "if he flew a straight line" he didn't
come that close to the power station. Okay, but when is the last
time any of us flew perfectly along our desired flight path. I
almost never do. I might be as much as 5 miles to one side or the
other and don't really care that much. It's VFR, it's a nice day,
and I know where I am and where I'm going -- that's good enough for
me. Did the O.P. fly right over the top of that nuclear plant? We
don't know. From his report, he may not even know.
Where's the line? I don't know. I guess it depends on just how
closely he came to the power plant and how long they detained him.
And perhaps whether there had been recent intelligence of planned
attacks on nuclear power plants. 5 miles away isn't worthy of
notice. Right over the top, then yeah I think it's reasonable to at
least see who it was. And that's what they did.
-Joe " Snip
Well, I avoid personal rebuttals as much as possible, but when I say
straight line, I mean straight line. The autopilot was flying, the air
was smooth, and the course was straight. When I said in my original
post, which was sent to hopefully get folks to write their senators and
not because I wanted to start a flame war, I stated that we passed the
plant at 2500' AGL and at least one mile away at nearly 200mph. Hardly
circling or lingering in the area is it?
And if you don't know where the line is, read the FARs again. Unless
they change the advisory to an FAR, it's 500'regardless of what any
idiot on the ground might think. Not saying that 500' over a nuke plant
is a good idea, but by my understanding it's legal. That is also the
opinion of the gents at the FSS that I called immediately after the
incident to confirm that I hadn't overlooked a new TFR or rule change.
My opinion based on the number of other planes that I saw in the area is
that some other plane probably did get much closer than we were. And we
got the police visit. Maybe next time it will be you. Maybe next time
the cops won't be so friendly. Maybe you'll even get tazed or shot.
Just remember if the tazer or bullet only stays on/in your body for 5-10
minutes and not several hours then you have no reason to be upset.
So, in conclusion, I hope that many of you reading this will raise hell
with your senators and congressmen!
Vince
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/ |
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dale1rv6(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:17 am Post subject: OMG! What is your deal? |
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How many want to know why they were walking around in their underwear? I do. Please explain. (Bert cover your eyes and ears 
Thanks,
Dale
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 10:59 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: OMG! What is your deal?
The only time I was ever in a nuclear plant was in the late 70s -- the Millstone plant in Connecticut. I was on a press tour and we got on an elevator and when the doors opened, there were all these women (and men, though I didn't notice immediately) walking around in their underwear.
It was then and there that I decided if this radio stuff didn't work out, I would become a nuclear engineer. (g)
How 'bout them RVs.
do not archive
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 9:30 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: OMG! What is your deal?
Vince: there's two types here- the "choir" who already feel as you do, and a few sheeple who've already had their Kool-Aid. You will never convince the latter that erosion of liberty is their concern, and the former already know it is.
Most of us know that the people working inside a nuke containment vessel would likely be unaware of the event until later should your plane impact the wall at 200 mph, but others imbibe and regurge whatever hysteria the media dishes out. Stirring the pot here will not settle much, however passionately you feel what you have written. I've seen this played out online enough times to be cynical that you will gain much by trying to waken the sheep from their pleasant slumber. I wish it were not so...
-Stormy
On 8/31/07, Frazier, Vincent A <VFrazier(at)usi.edu (VFrazier(at)usi.edu)> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu (VFrazier(at)usi.edu)>
SNIP "Furthermore, the O.P. said "if he flew a straight line" he didn't
come that close to the power station. Okay, but when is the last
time any of us flew perfectly along our desired flight path. I
almost never do. I might be as much as 5 miles to one side or the
other and don't really care that much. It's VFR, it's a nice day,
and I know where I am and where I'm going -- that's good enough for
me. Did the O.P. fly right over the top of that nuclear plant? We
don't know. From his report, he may not even know.
Where's the line? I don't know. I guess it depends on just how
closely he came to the power plant and how long they detained him.
And perhaps whether there had been recent intelligence of planned
attacks on nuclear power plants. 5 miles away isn't worthy of
notice. Right over the top, then yeah I think it's reasonable to at
least see who it was. And that's what they did.
-Joe " Snip
Well, I avoid personal rebuttals as much as possible, but when I say
straight line, I mean straight line. The autopilot was flying, the air
was smooth, and the course was straight. When I said in my original
post, which was sent to hopefully get folks to write their senators and
not because I wanted to start a flame war, I stated that we passed the
plant at 2500' AGL and at least one mile away at nearly 200mph. Hardly
circling or lingering in the area is it?
And if you don't know where the line is, read the FARs again. Unless
they change the advisory to an FAR, it's 500'regardless of what any
idiot on the ground might think. Not saying that 500' over a nuke plant
is a good idea, but by my understanding it's legal. That is also the
opinion of the gents at the FSS that I called immediately after the
incident to confirm that I hadn't overlooked a new TFR or rule change.
My opinion based on the number of other planes that I saw in the area is
that some other plane probably did get much closer than we were. And we
got the police visit. Maybe next time it will be you. Maybe next time
the cops won't be so friendly. Maybe you'll even get tazed or shot.
Just remember if the tazer or bullet only stays on/in your body for 5-10
minutes and not several hours then you have no reason to be upset.
So, in conclusion, I hope that many of you reading this will raise hell
with your senators and congressmen!
Vince
| Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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prtrotter
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 14
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sportav8r(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: OMG! What is your deal? |
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| Quote: | >> Interesting that you
didn't know where the power station was prior to your flight (had to
look it up), but you know for sure you were at least a mile away.<< |
Flight track memory in a mapping GPS is a wonderful thing Especially in a day and age where our liberties vanish at the whim of some "nervous" citizen. Save your track memory until this is resolved, Vince; perhaps indefinitely. It proves where you've been and where you haven't. You do have a mapping GPS, don't you?
-Stormy
[quote][b]
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Bob Collins
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:16 am Post subject: Re: OMG! What is your deal? |
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| dale1rv6(at)comcast.net wrote: | How many want to know why they were walking around in their underwear? I do. Please explain. (Bert cover your eyes and ears ;)
Thanks,
Dale
|
YOu know, oddly enough, we asked that same question. As it was explained to us, nothing left that particular room....and everyone had to be decontaminated, so they basically shed their clothes and stripped down to their underwear.
I guess there wasn't a locker room per se.
We were told at the time that the people didn't mind being seen in their underwear, because they were all ex-Navy people, which immediately cast the Navy in a better light than say, Army, in my view.
The plant itself became a flashpoint in the nuclear debate when some of the workers raised safety concerns and management retaliated against them in return. All three plants were shut down for over a year.
Still, I will always have a warm spot in my... heart... for that place.
Do not archive
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
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_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/ |
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jfogarty(at)tds.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:42 am Post subject: OMG! What is your deal? |
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Vince, I'm looking at the sectional for that area and there is a power
plant, Bridgman, just 15 miles southwest of Benton Harbor, I'm not sure that
this is the plant, however, it does not mention anything about nuclear power
plant, it just says power plant. In my opinion it should at least say
Nuclear Power Plant on the Sectional to help advise pilots to stay clear.
Also, with all the airports in that area it could have been any plane flying
over the power plant and not necessarily yours traveling at 200 miles
per/hour at 2500 feet AGL and over 5000' away from the plant. Vince, from
your common's, I believe you did nothing wrong and the police do not have
any idea who flew over the nuclear power plant. Thanks for the pilot
report, it's very interesting.
Jim
---
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