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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:15 am Post subject: Finally

Hi All,

 I finally managed to get G-PLAD my Extra back into  the air today. Thats 17 months since I drove her into the barn, smashing the  port wing and twisting the cage beyond repair.

  

 Where does the time go when you are enjoying  yourself.?

  

 What with waiting for delivery of parts across the  pond, construction, and messing about waiting for paperwork from the Popular  Flying Assoc. which controls General Aviation in the UK the time has just  slipped away

  

 Nothing went smoothly of course. I had aranged for  the test pilot last Friday. The PFA insisted that the repairs were such that it  be treated as a new aircraft. Hence the trouble.

 Friday dawned with blue skies and MIST. it didn`t  clear until nearly mid day. Too late for the test pilot to fly from his home  base, do the test and fly home.  Cancel until today. Today was overcast.  Cloud base high but unbroken grey cloud. Viz not great but just  acceptable.

 Phone message saying the pilot was on his way. i  had every bit of paperwork  which might be wanted. Cushions, fuel.radio,  GPS. Pulled  the old lady out of her hanger fitted everything, checked  everything. Decided not to run the engine so that the test pilot could check Ts  and Ps from cold.

 Mick, the test pilot duly arrived in his  Sonex.Pretty early thank goodness.  Dropping it in on about a quarter of my  450 yard strip. Chatted, inspected, andf strapped himself in. I had video  recorder waiting for the first turn of the prop. Twitch, twitch, nothing . The  door opens. Mick says flat battery. S****t!.  I had been fitting the radio  about 4 days ago and had left the master switch ON.

 Trip to local garage, a mile away,  where  luckily I am on good terms as I buy my petrol there. Borrow giant booster and  some jump leads. Long struggle befotre finally getting a kick and away she went.  Mick ran a good, thorough check flight and returned for me. The checks have to  be run at max weight so I was the excess baggage. The engine again woudnt start.  Booster, wifes car, jump leads. Away she goes.

 We run the test schedule. Everything  OK.

 One tyre gone soft. Back to the garage who pinched  a footpump from a customers car to lend to me.

 During my down time just to add to my problems I  had forgotten the annual revalidation of my flying license. So a Handling Test  had to be done to prove I could still fly.Mick put me through that and rather to  my surprise I found that my landings worked well in spite of a fickle cross  wind.  I held the throttle so tightly closed dduring my first landing that  the engine stopped. Booster, wifes car, jump leads and away again.

 Finally Mick reckoned that I had sufficiently  demonstrated my abilty to control the plane  and signed me off.   luckily the weather held good or we would never have got in the rquired flying  time.

  

 Upshott is that I have a plane which has been  passed as OK and I have been approved too.. Only have to get the battery on  charge and everything will be OK.

  

 I hope. Of course we have had 3 weeks of glorious  weather. Sunny, blue skies, nil wind warm and pleasant, not fabulous viz. but  pretty good. Tomorrow looks good when the battery will be on charge, and then  winter will set in. You can bet on it.

  

 But still,

 I am flying Hooray!

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

   [quote][b]

jb92563

Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Southern California

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Finally

Thats great! Congrats



Always a good day when you finally get to fly your plane with all the red tape behind and a solid year of flying ahead with any worries.



Ray

_________________
Ray

Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider

Do Not Archive

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject: Finally

What an adventure, Pat.  I was on the edge of my seat laughing, tho' I'll bet it wasn't funny for you at the time.  Congratulations and Good Luck.  I hope the good weather holds for you.                          Lar.

 

 pat ladd wrote: [quote]            Hi All,

   I finally managed to get G-PLAD my Extra back into the air today. Thats 17 months since I drove her into the barn, smashing the port wing and twisting the cage beyond repair.

    

   Where does the time go when you are enjoying yourself.?

    

   What with waiting for delivery of parts across the pond, construction, and messing about waiting for paperwork from the Popular Flying Assoc. which controls General Aviation in the UK the time has just slipped away

    

   Nothing went smoothly of course. I had aranged for the test pilot last Friday. The PFA insisted that the repairs were such that it be treated as a new aircraft. Hence the trouble.

   

    	  Quote: 	
		  



	
 [b]

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

Steve Boetto

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 364

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject: Finally

In a message dated 10/22/2007 3:15:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Chatted, inspected, andf strapped himself in. I    had video recorder waiting for the first turn of the prop. Twitch, twitch,    nothing . The door opens. Mick says flat battery. S****t!.  I had been    fitting the radio about 4 days ago and had left the master switch    ON.

   Trip to local garage, a mile away,  where    luckily I am on good terms as I buy my petrol there. Borrow giant booster and    some jump leads. Long struggle befotre finally getting a kick and away she    went. Mick ran a good, thorough check flight and returned for me. The checks    have to be run at max weight so I was the excess baggage. The engine again    woudnt start. Booster, wifes car, jump leads. Away she goes.

   We run the test schedule. Everything    OK.

	


 

 Pat,

  

 Don't get me wrong, I love the Brits. My MG,TR7,Daytona Triumph, Fish &  Chips and All but we have a saying here:  

 "Don't Mind Da Mule, Jus Load Da Wagon"  or the cruder "Get Er Done".  But sometimes you can detail a thing to death.

  

 Congratulations on your completion but I am thankful for our Freedoms. Get  back in the air and enjoy

 Remember, when all else fails, Fly Da Plane.   

 Steve  B

Firefly 007/Floats

do not  archive





See w [quote][b]

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject: Finally

Hooray Hoopray Hooray -- and then  summore. Congrats. Pat! -- enjoy your XtraRuss



On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:15 PM, pat ladd wrote:

[quote]Hi All,

I finally managed to get G-PLAD my Extra back into the air today. Thats 17 months since I drove her into the barn, smashing the port wing and twisting the cage beyond repair.

 

Where does the time go when you are enjoying yourself.?

 

What with waiting for delivery of parts across the pond, construction, and messing about waiting for paperwork from the Popular Flying Assoc. which controls General Aviation in the UK the time has just slipped away

 

Nothing went smoothly of course. I had aranged for the test pilot last Friday. The PFA insisted that the repairs were such that it be treated as a new aircraft. Hence the trouble.

Friday dawned with blue skies and MIST. it didn`t clear until nearly mid day. Too late for the test pilot to fly from his home base, do the test and fly home.  Cancel until today. Today was overcast. Cloud base high but unbroken grey cloud. Viz not great but just acceptable.

Phone message saying the pilot was on his way. i had every bit of paperwork  which might be wanted. Cushions, fuel.radio, GPS. Pulled  the old lady out of her hanger fitted everything, checked everything. Decided not to run the engine so that the test pilot could check Ts and Ps from cold.

Mick, the test pilot duly arrived in his Sonex.Pretty early thank goodness.  Dropping it in on about a quarter of my 450 yard strip. Chatted, inspected, andf strapped himself in. I had video recorder waiting for the first turn of the prop. Twitch, twitch, nothing . The door opens. Mick says flat battery. S****t!.  I had been fitting the radio about 4 days ago and had left the master switch ON.

Trip to local garage, a mile away,  where luckily I am on good terms as I buy my petrol there. Borrow giant booster and some jump leads. Long struggle befotre finally getting a kick and away she went. Mick ran a good, thorough check flight and returned for me. The checks have to be run at max weight so I was the excess baggage. The engine again woudnt start. Booster, wifes car, jump leads. Away she goes.

We run the test schedule. Everything OK.

One tyre gone soft. Back to the garage who pinched a footpump from a customers car to lend to me.

During my down time just to add to my problems I had forgotten the annual revalidation of my flying license. So a Handling Test had to be done to prove I could still fly.Mick put me through that and rather to my surprise I found that my landings worked well in spite of a fickle cross wind.  I held the throttle so tightly closed dduring my first landing that the engine stopped. Booster, wifes car, jump leads and away again.

Finally Mick reckoned that I had sufficiently demonstrated my abilty to control the plane  and signed me off.  luckily the weather held good or we would never have got in the rquired flying time.

 

Upshott is that I have a plane which has been passed as OK and I have been approved too.. Only have to get the battery on charge and everything will be OK.

 

I hope. Of course we have had 3 weeks of glorious weather. Sunny, blue skies, nil wind warm and pleasant, not fabulous viz. but pretty good. Tomorrow looks good when the battery will be on charge, and then winter will set in. You can bet on it.

 

But still,

I am flying Hooray!

 

Cheers

 

Pat

 	  Quote: 	
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[b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:18 am Post subject: Finally

What an adventure, Pat.  I was on the edge of  my seat laughing>>

  

 Hi Lar,

  

 Talk about `if it can wrong it will`. The  Keystone Cops weren`t in it.  I was thraped (a North of England Expression  roughly  meaning  `buggered`) by the  time I put her away  last night. I wish I was 20 again, even 60 would do at a pinch. It was just  about dark by the time I got home. A little before the 6 o clock dead line  but  I bent the rules and had a stiff gin and tonic and fell asleep  for about an hourand a half. Wendy woke me for dinner so a good glass of Chilean  Red was called for.

 Wendy was out playing bridge all evening  so  after clearing the e-mails,  writing my report to the list, writing my  cheque  to the PFA for the Permit Renewal I retired for an evenings TV.  assisted by a beer.  I slept well last night.

 I have been to the field and removed the battery  this morning. It is fitted right up in the  nose so a bit of limbo dancing was called for to get  the retaining bracket  removed but it is now on charge.

 True to form it is a glorious day. Not a cloud in a  bright blue sky, 5 mph wind, temp 72F.

 Off to Appledore tomorrow. If I can`t fly thats the  next best thing. If the Wx stays good I shall be able to refit the battery and  fly next weekend.

  

 Wendy`s brother has edited and added a musical  soundtrack to the video we took Stateside last May, including MV. Our trip  with you around the country surrounding Gouldings, and the flying shots  came out well. So did the shots of you in Indian tracker mode. You are a  star!

  

  

 Cheers Lar

  

 All the best

  

 Pat

 



   [quote][b]

jb92563

Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Southern California

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Finally

Pat,



Important Safety Tip:



Next time you attempt to go through the barn like an ol Barnstormer, don't forget to open the back doors as well!!!

_________________
Ray

Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider

Do Not Archive

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: Finally

I have to go with Steve on this one, I think we have to much paperwork and carp in this country, I could not imagine trying to operate in a place like Europe or Britain...  If it were me, the government, the CAA, or big brother would have never known that I damaged my plane just so I would not have to jump through so many hoops to get it back into the air.   



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

jb92563

Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Southern California

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Finally

Mike, 



I'd say that the British are fundamentally different from Americans in their thinking.(Given up on trying to avoid red tape and governmental control)



Europeans in general have had the rebellious crap knocked out of them long ago by strict governmental control.



Evading the rules there is just far to risky.



Having said that and being a Canadian living in the US for the past 7 years......the US has far to much red tape and restrictions of freedom as well.



If you want to experience real freedom.....go live in Canada for a while, the REAL "land of the free".

_________________
Ray

Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider

Do Not Archive

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: Finally

I believe you Ray !  I lived in South America for 3 years and could not imagine how much more freedom I had.  Here in the US, from the time we are in grade school they tell us we are free, but that is a bunch of garbage.  We have become controlled in every way, from every direction.  From lawyers making sure we can never do anything without fear of someone being sued, to just way to many petty needless rules.  It has become the ingrained in our society.



The sad part is, most people in the US have no clue how much freedom we have lost as they have never known anything else.  If I had the money and did not have to come back to work, I would have stayed in South America...



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:22 am Post subject: Finally

If it were me, the government, the CAA, or big brother would have never 

known that I damaged my plane just so I would not have to jump through so 

many hoops to get it back into the air>>



Hi Mike,

 there is a lot to be said for your position, but what would have been the 

situation regarding your insurance?  I have received  the full amount of the 

rebuilding costs and will receive the recertificatiion costs when I have 

rendered the complete figures. The insurers will also know that my plane has 

been rebuilt to an acceptable standard and will continue to cover it, and 

me.



A few years ago mind I would have probably been flying without waiting for 

the last bits of paperwork  etc to be tidied up but I reckon I am on 

borrowed time at this point anyway and I am not going to push my luck.



Incidentally, since April we have moved somewhat closer to your system by 

starting a `single seat deregulated` category.. Not quite `build your own 

and fly it` but the parameters are these.

single seat

Max empty weight (no pilot or fuel)  115kgs

Max wing loading (no pilot of fuel) 10kg/sq.metre

Must have 11.5 sq metre wing area

Max weight 300kg (330 off water)

Must be insured 3rd party (about $5 a week for £750,000 cover).

pilot must have a license

Valid Noise Certificate. (Noise is a real problem in Europe generally

Must keep usual airframe and engine log book

Max stall speed at MTOW 35knots



If you can do all that you do not need a Certificate of Airworthiness and 

you can alter, re engine or whatever takes your fancy.



I wouldn`t dare make a judgement.as to which system is better, particularly 

after being rowelled for my `Un American comments` on a previous occasion. 

(A charge I strongly deny). We shall never get the freedom which you enjoy 

in the States but I don`t think that it is all roses in the States. Whatever 

our shortcomings we are certainly not facing the situation where a pilot 

would rather cut up a plane that sell it because of the legal ramifications 

which was discussed on this list a short while ago.



But I would ceertainly vote for an injection of some of your  more free and 

easy system into our rather overcontrolled way of doing things.



Cheers



Pat

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Finally

Pat,



You are very right about our legal system being corrupt and out of control.  What we have is a system of legal extortion where people can take money from others and companies without just cause.  I say legal extortion, because many cases are settled out of court, not on values of justice, but to avoid wasting even more money in legal costs.



Most people here do not even comprehend how limited we are here in the US because of this system.  No diving boards in pools anymore, no going outside of the lines in parks, many products not available, the list is endless.



In a civil suit, most of the smart, successful people know how to get out of jury duty,  the plaintiffs lawyers then throw out any remaining jurors that appear smart, and try to keep the stupid ones that can be manipulated.   



THIS RESULTS IN US LAW BEING DECIDED BY GROUPS OF 6 OF THE STUPIDEST PEOPLE THAT CAN BE FOUND.



The other bad result is a national policy of everything in the county being geared towards the dumbest, most incompetent people that can be found, rather than gearing things for average people.



Man what a difference life was in places where lawsuits dont affect every aspect of daily life, and where everyone does not base every action in fear of being sued.    That is freedom.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:35 pm Post subject: Finally

Whatever 

 	  Quote: 	
		   our shortcomings we are certainly not facing the situation where a pilot 

 would rather cut up a plane that sell it because of the legal ramifications 

 which was discussed on this list a short while ago.

 > 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Cheers

 

 Pat 

 
	




Patrick:



I would think that your reference above is a very isolated incident.  Yep, we have some paranoid weirdos here in the States that would go that far.  I know of one that was on the Kolb List.  Cut up the fabric on the wings and cut the N number out of the rudder before he would sell the airplane.



Based on the amount of experimental and UL aircraft that change hands in the US, again, that would be a very isolated incident.



john h

hauck's holler remote, Winnemucca, Nevada

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:54 am Post subject: Finally

Based on the amount of experimental and UL aircraft that change hands in the 

US, again, that would be a very isolated incident.>>



Delighted to hear it John.  From the posts that were generated about it I 

gained the impression that it was a real problem. Glad to hear that nutcases 

are equally distributed on both sides of the Atlantic.



It seems to me that the basic difference between our systems is in the 

States the builder himself accepts total responsibilty for the plane he 

builds. Here the Chief Engineer of the PFA is the guy who has to carry the 

can in court if there is a lawsuit. This is because he has approved the 

design in the first place and his organisation of inspectors (Usually unpaid 

or expenses only) has checked the build quality throughout the construction. 

It is very frustrating when a plane has  operated in another country for 

thousands of hours and doesn`t get approved here. For instance the MTOW for 

the Extra is lower here than the States, and certainly a lot lower than the 

sort of weight you pack onto yours. Heigh Ho!



Cheers



Pat

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:20 am Post subject: Finally

The other bad result is a national policy of everything in the county being 

geared towards the dumbest, most incompetent people that can be found, 

rather than gearing things for average people.



Man what a difference life was in places where lawsuits dont affect every 

aspect of daily life, and where everyone does not base every action in fear 

of being sued.    That is freedom.>>



Hi Mike,



We are in the same boat. We haven`t quite got to the point of sueing someone 

because they are perceived as having `deep pockets` but we shall, Common 

sense has gone out of the window.



We had a case the other day of two kids being sent home from the municipal 

swimming pool because they were wearing long shorts because `a weak swimmer 

could be dragged down`. Teachers won`t take kids for field trips in case 

they are sued if there is an accident. Everyone loses.



What really annoys me is that it would only take one Judge to dismiss a case 

as being frivolous  and impose a heavy cost penalty for wasting the Courts 

time and the whole edifice would collapse like a pack of cards. T`aint going 

to happen because there is too much money pouring into the legal profession 

as a result  of these daft claims.



Afternoon TV is stuffed with adverts exhorting people to make a claim for 

any accident which has happened. There is one incredible one of a guy who 

was installing a  bracket to carry an electric cable. The voice over says 

that he was `issued with the wrong sort of ladder` which resulted in an 

accident. Not a word about having enough sense to get someone to hold it, 

refuse to go up it or even change the ladder.. Ye Gods!



Re the dumbing down. That bastard Blair was determined that everyone should 

have a university education. Not `everyone who could qualify` you will note. 

He built Universities then he had to lower the entry standards to get enough 

people to fill them..

We get kids leaving school and the first thing employers have to do is 

organise maths and English classes to teach them to read and write and add 

up.



Don`t get me started. Sorry everybody



Cheers



Pat

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject: Finally

Pat

Don't ever apologize for speaking the truth, and common sense! --  

unfortunately both our countries are suffering from Idiocy From the  

Top Down -- and I can't see where any defense, or change, will come  

from. Seems to me other civilizations in the past have gotten  too  

liberal/nutty and then been taken over by the barbarians.

Will history repeat itself?

And I'd like to know WHY people in  the entertainment industry (i.e,  

"Tinseltown " AKA So. California) -- think they're automatically  

experts in international affairs??

Sheesh Marie! Anyone who's lived and worked in remote areas knows  

that people there are too busy staying alive  & getting some work  

done to indulge in

frivilous, stupid things like unnecessary lawsuits. Or any lawsuits  

at all. But get into the suburbs and then  the cities, and they're  

rampant, and lawyers abound. All with an eye to filling their  

pockets, any way they can. Bah!

As you said, 'don't get me started. Sorry everybody'.

Russ



do not archive



On Oct 28, 2007, at 7:21 AM, pat ladd wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 The other bad result is a national policy of everything in the  

 county being geared towards the dumbest, most incompetent people  

 that can be found, rather than gearing things for average people.



 Man what a difference life was in places where lawsuits dont affect  

 every aspect of daily life, and where everyone does not base every  

 action in fear of being sued.    That is freedom.>>



 Hi Mike,



 We are in the same boat. We haven`t quite got to the point of  

 sueing someone because they are perceived as having `deep pockets`  

 but we shall, Common sense has gone out of the window.



 We had a case the other day of two kids being sent home from the  

 municipal swimming pool because they were wearing long shorts  

 because `a weak swimmer could be dragged down`. Teachers won`t take  

 kids for field trips in case they are sued if there is an accident.  

 Everyone loses.



 What really annoys me is that it would only take one Judge to  

 dismiss a case as being frivolous  and impose a heavy cost penalty  

 for wasting the Courts time and the whole edifice would collapse  

 like a pack of cards. T`aint going to happen because there is too  

 much money pouring into the legal profession as a result  of these  

 daft claims.



 Afternoon TV is stuffed with adverts exhorting people to make a  

 claim for any accident which has happened. There is one incredible  

 one of a guy who was installing a  bracket to carry an electric  

 cable. The voice over says that he was `issued with the wrong sort  

 of ladder` which resulted in an accident. Not a word about having  

 enough sense to get someone to hold it, refuse to go up it or even  

 change the ladder.. Ye Gods!



 Re the dumbing down. That bastard Blair was determined that  

 everyone should have a university education. Not `everyone who  

 could qualify` you will note. He built Universities then he had to  

 lower the entry standards to get enough people to fill them..

 We get kids leaving school and the first thing employers have to do  

 is organise maths and English classes to teach them to read and  

 write and add up.



 Don`t get me started. Sorry everybody



 Cheers



 Pat

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:22 am Post subject: Finally

Seems to me other civilizations in the past have gotten  too  liberal/nutty 

and then been taken over by the barbarians.>>



Too late Russ,

the barbarians are already inside the gates.



Pat

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:56 am Post subject: Finally

EGAD!!

We'll have to move outside the gatres. Where are they?

Russ



On Oct 30, 2007, at 6:22 AM, pat ladd wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Seems to me other civilizations in the past have gotten  too   

 liberal/nutty and then been taken over by the barbarians.>>



 Too late Russ,

 the barbarians are already inside the gates.



 Pat

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