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Edge Distances on the 701

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dplozay(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:22 am Post subject: Edge Distances on the 701



Here's a seemingly simple question, "what is the minimum edge distance for holes on the 701?" This issue is seemingly simple because the Construction Manual states the "Absolute Minimum edge distance" as 2 x Hole Diameter; great here's a fixed standard. This issue is confusing because the plans sometimes call for rivets to be placed closer to edges than this standard (for example part 7V4-4 on drawing page 7V5 specifies a rivet line (for A5 rivets) 7mm from the top of the part. I get concerned because I calculate the minimum edge distance as 2 x 4mm 8mm. Hmmm, what am I missing?

I'm also having difficulty achieving minimum edge distance on the Bent L Angle that is riveted to the side of part 7V4-5 (see page 7V5). How have you experienced 701 builders solved this problem?

Dave, Omaha NE

701

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larrymc(at)qconline.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 7:48 am Post subject: Edge Distances on the 701



David,

The drawing supersedes any "absolute rules" that are provided for

general good practice. Only the designer

can establish a dimension that violates the rule, because he knows what

the long term result will be. Trust

the drawing, consider the rule for general good practice, but follow the

drawing.

Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

David Plozay wrote:

Here's a seemingly simple question, "what is the minimum edge distance for holes on the 701?" This issue is seemingly simple because the Construction Manual states the "Absolute Minimum edge distance" as 2 x Hole Diameter; great here's a fixed standard. This issue is confusing because the plans sometimes call for rivets to be placed closer to edges than this standard (for example part 7V4-4 on drawing page 7V5 specifies a rivet line (for A5 rivets) 7mm from the top of the part. I get concerned because I calculate the minimum edge distance as 2 x 4mm 8mm. Hmmm, what am I missing?

I'm also having difficulty achieving minimum edge distance on the Bent L Angle that is riveted to the side of part 7V4-5 (see page 7V5). How have you experienced 701 builders solved this problem?

Dave, Omaha NE

701

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p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:45 am Post subject: Edge Distances on the 701



Hi David,

I am pretty new at metal airplane building myself, so I am not sure I

have the edge distance thing worked out correctly.

First, a 1/8" rivet is around 3 mm in diameter. 2 times that is 6

mm. This comes out to 4.5 mm from the edge of the hole to the edge

of the metal since edge distance is measured from the center of the

rivet hole. An A4 rivet is close to 1/8" and an A5 is just a little

bigger. My guess for the minimum A5 edge distance is 6 mm.

It gets a little fuzzy when you consider where edge distance

applies. It seems that when you are putting rivets into an "Angle"

the distance does apply to the open edge of the angle but not to the

edge where the bend is. I don't know exactly why that is, but that

seems to be the case. Perhaps one of the better trained listers can

address this subject for both of us.

Paul

XL wings

do not archive

 	  Quote: 	
		  Here's a seemingly simple question, "what is the minimum edge

distance for holes on the 701?" This issue is seemingly simple

because the Construction Manual states the "Absolute Minimum edge

distance" as 2 x Hole Diameter; great here's a fixed standard. This

issue is confusing because the plans sometimes call for rivets to be

placed closer to edges than this standard (for example part 7V4-4 on

drawing page 7V5 specifies a rivet line (for A5 rivets) 7mm from the

top of the part. I get concerned because I calculate the minimum

edge distance as 2 x 4mm 8mm. Hmmm, what am I missing?

I'm also having difficulty achieving minimum edge distance on the

Bent L Angle that is riveted to the side of part 7V4-5 (see page

7V5). How have you experienced 701 builders solved this problem?

Dave, Omaha NE

701

	


--

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larrymc(at)qconline.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject: Edge Distances on the 701



Paul,

The edge distance is a similar to pitch settings for rivets. Most of

the edge distance issues relate more

to thin materials, that when pulled together by a rivet create a ripple

or stress wave to occur. Too close to the

edge and you eventually will see cracks from each rivet to the edge.

Probably would take a long time.

Same goes for too close a pitch. Eventually you see a crack running

from rivet to rivet because of the

stress wave that circles one rivet affecting the circle of stress at the

next. When you get too close

to the edge, the circle is upset by a broken wave and eventually the

material relaxes or breaks.

The edge distance issue probably has a margin for safety, but that would

depend on the size rivet

and the thickness of material as well as the kind of material you're

working with. 6061 aluminum is

probably the most forgiving of these, where 2024 would not.

Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

Paul Mulwitz wrote:

Hi David,

I am pretty new at metal airplane building myself, so I am not sure I

have the edge distance thing worked out correctly.

First, a 1/8" rivet is around 3 mm in diameter. 2 times that is 6

mm. This comes out to 4.5 mm from the edge of the hole to the edge

of the metal since edge distance is measured from the center of the

rivet hole. An A4 rivet is close to 1/8" and an A5 is just a little

bigger. My guess for the minimum A5 edge distance is 6 mm.

It gets a little fuzzy when you consider where edge distance

applies. It seems that when you are putting rivets into an "Angle"

the distance does apply to the open edge of the angle but not to the

edge where the bend is. I don't know exactly why that is, but that

seems to be the case. Perhaps one of the better trained listers can

address this subject for both of us.

Paul

XL wings

do not archive

- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

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