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robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
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 Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:21 am Post subject: Aeroduct vs. Scat Tubing |
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I have been thinking a lot about the oil cooling temp issues for the -10. Some have chosen to upgraded the oil cooler. I have an interest in controlling the oil temps by improving the air flow to the box and them adding a gate in the oil cooler housing that will allow me to restrict the air flow to the oil cooler in cold weather. (photo attached)
I am considering swapping out the standard Scat Tubing for Silicone lined high temp Aeroduct hose. I have purchased this hose for my OH Console to replace the hearting scat tubes. It’s nice stuff! My thinking is that this duct is much smoother and significantly less corrugated that scat tubing which SHOULD improve airflow to the oil cooler. The down side is that this ducting is only sold in 12 foot lengths at $150 / 12 feet. I probably need 2 feet.
My other concept is to take two 3” tubes from the baffling (one on each side of the engine, I prefer this symmetry) and have both of these 3” tubes feed the oil cooler box. I don’t know if I will have room to run a 3” duct from the right side on the engine to the oil cooler mounted in the typical location.
To further complicate things I will be using the James Cowl & Plenum.
I would appreciate any observations on using the smooth Silicone lined Aeroduct hose vs. Scat Tube and or comments on two 3” tubes/duct vs. the one larger tube/duct.
Thanks,
Robin
Thinking of an RV-8A…Mental illness runs in my family.
http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=3171&action=product&form_cat_id=59,7
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C83FD3.86A10CD0[/img]
[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01C83FD3.86A10CD0[/img] [img]cid:image003.jpg(at)01C83FD3.86A10CD0[/img]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:21 pm Post subject: Aeroduct vs. Scat Tubing |
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Robin, that’s a most interesting landing gear leg and brake assembly (shown).
You will find many advantages to the course you are pursuing. LoPresti would be please with your acknowledgement on air flow control. Let me know how much you have left, I would be interested, Too. I am looking at an improved flow path over the stock configuration.
John Cox
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:14 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Aeroduct vs. Scat Tubing
I have been thinking a lot about the oil cooling temp issues for the -10. Some have chosen to upgraded the oil cooler. I have an interest in controlling the oil temps by improving the air flow to the box and them adding a gate in the oil cooler housing that will allow me to restrict the air flow to the oil cooler in cold weather. (photo attached)
I am considering swapping out the standard Scat Tubing for Silicone lined high temp Aeroduct hose. I have purchased this hose for my OH Console to replace the hearting scat tubes. It’s nice stuff! My thinking is that this duct is much smoother and significantly less corrugated that scat tubing which SHOULD improve airflow to the oil cooler. The down side is that this ducting is only sold in 12 foot lengths at $150 / 12 feet. I probably need 2 feet.
My other concept is to take two 3” tubes from the baffling (one on each side of the engine, I prefer this symmetry) and have both of these 3” tubes feed the oil cooler box. I don’t know if I will have room to run a 3” duct from the right side on the engine to the oil cooler mounted in the typical location.
To further complicate things I will be using the James Cowl & Plenum.
I would appreciate any observations on using the smooth Silicone lined Aeroduct hose vs. Scat Tube and or comments on two 3” tubes/duct vs. the one larger tube/duct.
Thanks,
Robin
Thinking of an RV-8A…Mental illness runs in my family.
http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=3171&action=product&form_cat_id=59,7
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C83FDC.8CF7BC60[/img]
[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01C83FDC.8CF7BC60[/img] [img]cid:image003.jpg(at)01C83FDC.8CF7BC60[/img]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: Aeroduct vs. Scat Tubing |
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You should be able to do some easy area of a circle type
calculations and determine if your dual-fed SCAT tubes
can provide the same amount of air all other things
being equal. As diameter goes up, the area increases
substantially so it might be hard to get 2 SCAT tubes
to have the same flow as one, without going to some
pretty good sized dual tubes. But, as long as you get
the air there I should work I'd think.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Robin Marks wrote:
| Quote: | I have been thinking a lot about the oil cooling temp issues for the
-10. Some have chosen to upgraded the oil cooler. I have an interest in
controlling the oil temps by improving the air flow to the box and them
adding a gate in the oil cooler housing that will allow me to restrict
the air flow to the oil cooler in cold weather. (photo attached)
I am considering swapping out the standard Scat Tubing for Silicone
lined high temp Aeroduct hose. I have purchased this hose for my OH
Console to replace the hearting scat tubes. It’s nice stuff! My thinking
is that this duct is much smoother and significantly less corrugated
that scat tubing which SHOULD improve airflow to the oil cooler. The
down side is that this ducting is only sold in 12 foot lengths at $150 /
12 feet. I probably need 2 feet.
My other concept is to take two 3” tubes from the baffling (one on each
side of the engine, I prefer this symmetry) and have both of these 3”
tubes feed the oil cooler box. I don’t know if I will have room to run a
3” duct from the right side on the engine to the oil cooler mounted in
the typical location.
To further complicate things I will be using the James Cowl & Plenum.
I would appreciate any observations on using the smooth Silicone lined
Aeroduct hose vs. Scat Tube and or comments on two 3” tubes/duct vs. the
one larger tube/duct.
Thanks,
Robin
Thinking of an RV-8A…Mental illness runs in my family.
http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=3171&action=product&form_cat_id=59,7
<http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=3171&action=product&form_cat_id=59,7>
http://www.hrpworld.com/client_images/ecommerce/client_39/products/3171_hdr_2_l.jpg
http://www.hrpworld.com/client_images/ecommerce/client_39/products/3171_1.jpg* *http://www.hrpworld.com/client_images/ecommerce/client_39/products/3171_2.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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ScooterF15
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 136
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: Aeroduct vs. Scat Tubing |
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Kind of a side note as we're talking about cooling and air flow. I took my cowling off last week and noticed that the aluminum shielding I had applied to the bottom cowling had been peeled up just underneath the oil cooler. Now I can't say for sure, but this seems to indicate that the air is flowing forward in this location; probably not the most efficient flow pattern. Possibly additional louvers in this location may help.
I have the stock oil cooler with a stock installation. You might notice I've added a few extra louvers on the bottom cowl. I've also added a "dryer vent" exhaust on the exit side of the oil cooler (see photo). My hope is this would help the air exiting the oil cooler to more smoothly mix with the exiting air. I have no hard data to back up whether these were actual improvements in air flow; however I'll say that my oil temp and CHTs have become lower and more manageable with the changes.
-Jim
40134 - Flying
In a message dated 12/16/2007 2:27:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, robin1(at)mrmoisture.com writes:
| Quote: |
I have been thinking a lot about the oil cooling temp issues for the -10. Some have chosen to upgraded the oil cooler. I have an interest in controlling the oil temps by improving the air flow to the box and them adding a gate in the oil cooler housing that will allow me to restrict the air flow to the oil cooler in cold weather. (photo attached)
I am considering swapping out the standard Scat Tubing for Silicone lined high temp Aeroduct hose. I have purchased this hose for my OH Console to replace the hearting scat tubes. It’s nice stuff! My thinking is that this duct is much smoother and significantly less corrugated that scat tubing which SHOULD improve airflow to the oil cooler. The down side is that this ducting is only sold in 12 foot lengths at $150 / 12 feet. I probably need 2 feet.
My other concept is to take two 3” tubes from the baffling (one on each side of the engine, I prefer this symmetry) and have both of these 3” tubes feed the oil cooler box. I don’t know if I will have room to run a 3” duct from the right side on the engine to the oil cooler mounted in the typical location.
To further complicate things I will be using the James Cowl & Plenum.
I would appreciate any observations on using the smooth Silicone lined Aeroduct hose vs. Scat Tube and or comments on two 3” tubes/duct vs. the one larger tube/duct.
Thanks,
Robin
Thinking of an RV-8A…Mental illness runs in my family. |
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:26 pm Post subject: Aeroduct vs. Scat Tubing |
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High pressure and cooler air from the upper plenum escapes through the oil heat exchanger and collides with the downflow past the cooling fins on the port side. It is a great example of the burble generated from the collision of air masses. It may also indicate an adhesion problem between the film and the lower cowl finish coating.
John Cox
40600 - dreaming
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 4:49 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Aeroduct vs. Scat Tubing
Kind of a side note as we're talking about cooling and air flow. I took my cowling off last week and noticed that the aluminum shielding I had applied to the bottom cowling had been peeled up just underneath the oil cooler. Now I can't say for sure, but this seems to indicate that the air is flowing forward in this location; probably not the most efficient flow pattern. Possibly additional louvers in this location may help.
I have the stock oil cooler with a stock installation. You might notice I've added a few extra louvers on the bottom cowl. I've also added a "dryer vent" exhaust on the exit side of the oil cooler (see photo). My hope is this would help the air exiting the oil cooler to more smoothly mix with the exiting air. I have no hard data to back up whether these were actual improvements in air flow; however I'll say that my oil temp and CHTs have become lower and more manageable with the changes.
-Jim
40134 - Flying
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C84009.0B22EA20[/img]
[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01C84009.0B22EA20[/img]
In a message dated 12/16/2007 2:27:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, robin1(at)mrmoisture.com writes:
| Quote: |
I ha[img]cid:image003.jpg(at)01C84009.0B22EA20[/img]ve been thinking a lot about the oil cooling temp issues for the -10. Some have chosen to upgraded the oil cooler. I have an interest in controlling the oil temps by improving the air flow to the box and them adding a gate in the oil cooler housing that will allow me to restrict the air flow to the oil cooler in cold weather. (photo attached)
I am considering swapping out the standard Scat Tubing for Silicone lined high temp Aeroduct hose. I have purchased this hose for my OH Console to replace the hearting scat tubes. It’s nice stuff! My thinking is that this duct is much smoother and significantly less corrugated that scat tubing which SHOULD improve airflow to the oil cooler. The down side is that this ducting is only sold in 12 foot lengths at $150 / 12 feet. I probably need 2 feet.
My other concept is to take two 3” tubes from the baffling (one on each side of the engine, I prefer this symmetry) and have both of these 3” tubes feed the oil cooler box. I don’t know if I will have room to run a 3” duct from the right side on the engine to the oil cooler mounted in the typical location.
To further complicate things I will be using the James Cowl & Plenum.
I would appreciate any observations on using the smooth Silicone lined Aeroduct hose vs. Scat Tube and or comments on two 3” tubes/duct vs. the one larger tube/duct.
Thanks,
Robin
Thinking of an RV-8A…Mental illness runs in my family. |
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
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dc71(at)netspace.net.au
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject: Aeroduct vs. Scat Tubing |
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Assuming laminar flow, flow through a tube is proportional to the
fourth power of the radius. Therefore to get the same flow through
two smaller tubes, the radius of each small tube has to be approx 84%
of the larger tube, without taking into account frictional losses.
Hope this helps
Indran
On 17/12/2007, at 9:14 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
| Quote: |
You should be able to do some easy area of a circle type
calculations and determine if your dual-fed SCAT tubes
can provide the same amount of air all other things
being equal. As diameter goes up, the area increases
substantially so it might be hard to get 2 SCAT tubes
to have the same flow as one, without going to some
pretty good sized dual tubes. But, as long as you get
the air there I should work I'd think.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Robin Marks wrote:
> I have been thinking a lot about the oil cooling temp issues for
> the -10. Some have chosen to upgraded the oil cooler. I have an
> interest in controlling the oil temps by improving the air flow to
> the box and them adding a gate in the oil cooler housing that will
> allow me to restrict the air flow to the oil cooler in cold
> weather. (photo attached)
> I am considering swapping out the standard Scat Tubing for
> Silicone lined high temp Aeroduct hose. I have purchased this hose
> for my OH Console to replace the hearting scat tubes. It’s nice
> stuff! My thinking is that this duct is much smoother and
> significantly less corrugated that scat tubing which SHOULD
> improve airflow to the oil cooler. The down side is that this
> ducting is only sold in 12 foot lengths at $150 / 12 feet. I
> probably need 2 feet.
> My other concept is to take two 3” tubes from the baffling (one on
> each side of the engine, I prefer this symmetry) and have both of
> these 3” tubes feed the oil cooler box. I don’t know if I will
> have room to run a 3” duct from the right side on the engine to
> the oil cooler mounted in the typical location.
> To further complicate things I will be using the James Cowl & Plenum.
> I would appreciate any observations on using the smooth Silicone
> lined Aeroduct hose vs. Scat Tube and or comments on two 3” tubes/
> duct vs. the one larger tube/duct.
> Thanks,
> Robin
> Thinking of an RV-8A…Mental illness runs in my family.
> http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?
> form_prod_id=3171&action=product&form_cat_id=59,7 <http://
> www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?
> form_prod_id=3171&action=product&form_cat_id=59,7> http://
> www.hrpworld.com/client_images/ecommerce/client_39/products/
> 3171_hdr_2_l.jpg
> http://www.hrpworld.com/client_images/ecommerce/client_39/products/
> 3171_1.jpg* *http://www.hrpworld.com/client_images/ecommerce/
> client_39/products/3171_2.jpg
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
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