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rene(at)felker.com
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 Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: First FlightRigging Questions |
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OK, need some opinions........
I was very excited about my first flight today, but did have a heavy wing
and used a lot of nose down trim. It had me concerned. So tonight I went
through the archives and I think I have it figured out....
Heavy wing, single pilot and.......only used right fuel tank during first
flight. Not planning on switching tanks until the second flight. At the
end of the flight I had a full left tank and ~ 15 gallons in the right tank.
Can this type of in-balance lead to a very heavy left wing? Trim could not
correct it.
Elevator trim, needed to use a lot of nose down trim? At takeoff I added
about 1 second, maybe two of trim. Also had almost full nose down trim
during cruse. Is this normal? During transition training I don't remember
using as much.
After the flight, we went back over the elevator trim adjustment and it is
per plans...35degrees.
Rene'
801-721-6080
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:49 am Post subject: First FlightRigging Questions |
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With just a pilot and fuel you should be using more nose-up trim than
anything. If you are using nose-down, then something is wrong. This
may sound stupid and I certainly mean no offense, but are you sure
that you are trimming nose-down? Using most of (or at least a lot of)
your nose-up trim would be fairly normal in this condition. I would
check your trims and make sure you are getting your full deflection up
on the one trim tab that goes up while the other remains in the center.
What trim do you have to offset the heavy wing? I just flew in a
fairly new RV-10 yesterday and it was flying one wing low until he
trimmed the ball into the center. That leveled it right up.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Mar 7, 2008, at 12:01 AM, Rene wrote:
| Quote: |
OK, need some opinions........
I was very excited about my first flight today, but did have a heavy
wing
and used a lot of nose down trim. It had me concerned. So tonight
I went
through the archives and I think I have it figured out....
Heavy wing, single pilot and.......only used right fuel tank during
first
flight. Not planning on switching tanks until the second flight.
At the
end of the flight I had a full left tank and ~ 15 gallons in the
right tank.
Can this type of in-balance lead to a very heavy left wing? Trim
could not
correct it.
Elevator trim, needed to use a lot of nose down trim? At takeoff I
added
about 1 second, maybe two of trim. Also had almost full nose down
trim
during cruse. Is this normal? During transition training I don't
remember
using as much.
After the flight, we went back over the elevator trim adjustment and
it is
per plans...35degrees.
Rene'
801-721-6080
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rene(at)felker.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:37 am Post subject: First FlightRigging Questions |
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As far as the nose up and down, I did check that on the ground and it is
indicating correctly. It was nose down. And no question is stupid in this
case because I am a little stumped. I found a post in the archive, I think
it was Ahn, that talked about having to use nose down trim. So I was
wondering if I was just being to critical.
Once on the ground I did re-check the trim and did note that the left tab
may not be moving correctly, it does not get into the natural position, just
a little short before it moves down. I ran out of time and that is on my
list of things to check when I get back out to the airplane. If that is the
case I will have to go back and check the cam adjustment that we
did.....about 3 years ago.
As far as the heavy left wing, I do have rudder trim on the airplane and had
the ball centered with wings level. Just had to hold a lot of right aileron
to do that.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
40322
801-721-6080
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:10 am Post subject: First FlightRigging Questions |
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Rene',
First, Congrats! Next, I disagree with Jesse depending on the stage
of flight you're in, on the nose up/down trim. First, when you're
solo in the 10, you have tons of power and climb, and when you
hit the throttle you'll probably find that during certain stages
of takeoff you'll be pushing on the stick quite a bit unless you're
in trim. Out of the segmented LED, I usually have to take off
with the 3rd to 4th from the bottom segment lit. So yeah, it's
a bunch of nose-down trim during the takeoff roll. That plane
has so darn much power that takeoffs are a bit amazing...the thing
I remember most about the first takeoff is how unusual it was
when I first left the ground. The plane accelerated sharply as
soon as it left the pavement. The rolling resistance of the tires
was very significant, and when they free up, you get a good kick
in the a$$...it's way cool! But yeah, you'll be playing with the
trim on takeoff a bit. Then, when it comes time to land, I'd
agree more with Jesse....you'll be using quite a bit of nose up
trim and be on the other end of the scale. If you have full trim
deflection and it measures out correctly, I'd just say "fly it" and
get some time in so you can get the feel. It will feel more
natural over time.
As for the heavy wing....yeah, fuel imbalance in the -10 can get
you quite out of trim. The tanks are long and some fuel is far
from the center axis. The trim should be able to take care of
most of it. When I'm alone I notice it much more than when I'm
hauling people around. If you've still got a wing low, I'd
look at your aileron alignment, the shape and curvature of your
wing tip trailing edges, and your flaps. Make sure your flaps
are totally symmetrical, and that they're going all the way
up to the stops. If your flaps are symmetrical and your ailerons
are too, and the tips are nice, then aerodynamically you should
be fine. Then the key may very well be just what Jesse mentioned...
you may need to make sure your skid ball is centered. (Actually,
check that first...it's easy) There are some cool tools you
can use to center the skid ball if it's out to one side. They're
called "feet".  If you're like most -10s, you'll probably
find that you'll need a wedge on the rudder if you don't have
rudder trim....and the common side is the left side. Being
out of rudder trim will make you hang a wing low. It's one
reason I liked adding rudder trim to the plane...When you're
flying long x/c you notice the little things....like a slight
tilt to the horizon...and it drive you nuts. Rudder trim lets
you get rid of that and make it perfect at any airspeed.
So have at it and enjoy the plane. Watch for anything critical,
but if it flies safely, get to know it and work through these
issues systematically and you'll find in the end that you can
make it fly perfect. Last night I had a beautiful night flight
and flew into downtown St. Paul with all the lights, and it was
just soooooo smooth...you're gonna love the plane!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Jesse Saint wrote:
| Quote: |
With just a pilot and fuel you should be using more nose-up trim than
anything. If you are using nose-down, then something is wrong. This
may sound stupid and I certainly mean no offense, but are you sure that
you are trimming nose-down? Using most of (or at least a lot of) your
nose-up trim would be fairly normal in this condition. I would check
your trims and make sure you are getting your full deflection up on the
one trim tab that goes up while the other remains in the center.
What trim do you have to offset the heavy wing? I just flew in a fairly
new RV-10 yesterday and it was flying one wing low until he trimmed the
ball into the center. That leveled it right up.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Mar 7, 2008, at 12:01 AM, Rene wrote:
>
>
> OK, need some opinions........
>
> I was very excited about my first flight today, but did have a heavy wing
> and used a lot of nose down trim. It had me concerned. So tonight I
> went
> through the archives and I think I have it figured out....
>
> Heavy wing, single pilot and.......only used right fuel tank during first
> flight. Not planning on switching tanks until the second flight. At the
> end of the flight I had a full left tank and ~ 15 gallons in the right
> tank.
> Can this type of in-balance lead to a very heavy left wing? Trim
> could not
> correct it.
>
> Elevator trim, needed to use a lot of nose down trim? At takeoff I added
> about 1 second, maybe two of trim. Also had almost full nose down trim
> during cruse. Is this normal? During transition training I don't
> remember
> using as much.
>
> After the flight, we went back over the elevator trim adjustment and
> it is
> per plans...35degrees.
>
> Rene'
> 801-721-6080
|
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:11 am Post subject: First FlightRigging Questions |
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|
Try to make sure that when the trim tab is neutral that they're both
at the same even level. Maybe you do have some adjusting to do...on
the aft end of those trim cables.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Rene Felker wrote:
[quote]
As far as the nose up and down, I did check that on the ground and it is
indicating correctly. It was nose down. And no question is stupid in this
case because I am a little stumped. I found a post in the archive, I think
it was Ahn, that talked about having to use nose down trim. So I was
wondering if I was just being to critical.
Once on the ground I did re-check the trim and did note that the left tab
may not be moving correctly, it does not get into the natural position, just
a little short before it moves down. I ran out of time and that is on my
list of things to check when I get back out to the airplane. If that is the
case I will have to go back and check the cam adjustment that we
did.....about 3 years ago.
As far as the heavy left wing, I do have rudder trim on the airplane and had
the ball centered with wings level. Just had to hold a lot of right aileron
to do that.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
40322
801-721-6080
--
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mritter509(at)msn.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:15 am Post subject: First FlightRigging Questions |
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I use a little nose down trim in cruise and attributed it to the MT prop which is twenty pounds lighter than the Hartzell. I may have a rigging problem but the airplane flies hands off once trimmed up. I fixed a heavy left wing by putting a trim block (used double sided tape) under the right aileron (outboard). I noticed when 410RV was here in Texas it had wooden trim blocks on the rudder and aileron.
Mark
RV-10/N410MR
<html><div></div></html>
[quote] From: rene(at)felker.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: First FlightRigging Questions
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 06:33:44 -0700
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
As far as the nose up and down, I did check that on the ground and it is
indicating correctly. It was nose down. And no question is stupid in this
case because I am a little stumped. I found a post in the archive, I think
it was Ahn, that talked about having to use nose down trim. So I was
wondering if I was just being to critical.
Once on the ground I did re-check the trim and did note that the left tab
may not be moving correctly, it does not get into the natural position, just
a little short before it moves down. I ran out of time and that is on my
list of things to check when I get back out to the airplane. If that is the
case I will have to go back and check the cam adjustment that we
did.....about 3 years ago.
As far as the heavy left wing, I do have rudder trim on the airplane and had
the ball centered with wings level. Just had to hold a lot of right aileron
to do that.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
40322
801-721-6080
--
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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