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Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: Firestar project

At 09:26 PM 4/17/2008, william sullivan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  John- Brian (my brother-in-law) has flown just about everything. I am 

almost certain he has never flown a Kolb. I do know that he has experience 

on light (if not ultralight) aircraft...


	


Bill, it's not the same thing.  400 hours in Taylorcafts did NOT prepare me 

to solo a Quicksilver, and Cessna (what I originally learned in) time would 

have prepared me even less.  400 hours in the T-Craft and a few hours in 

the (two seat) Quicksilver DID prepare me to solo my Kolb... and my Kolb 

was less of an unknown, as I had seen it fly before in its current 

configuration.  There's also the matter of tailwheel time, does your 

brother in law have any?



-Dana



--

  Help, I've fallen up and I can't get down

HShack(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: Firestar project

There is a FS II based at our field that had the tail boom shortened by 6"  by the original builder.  It flies fine ; can't really tell any  difference.

  

 I am not advocating such a change, just telling what I know.

  

 Howard  Shackleford

FS II

SC

 do not  archive

  

  In a message dated 4/17/2008 6:33:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  williamtsullivan(at)att.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I do    understand the implications of changes to the basic design.  	




Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.

  [quote][b]

rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: Firestar project

John,

 You are right about the wing movement.  You  got me by the short hairs when it comes to why and how the previous owner  would move the wings that much.

  

 Denny

 



 [quote]   Denny:

    

   I may be missing Bill S's point in that one msg,    but I consider relocating wings 2.5 inches aft of the prescribed position, and    shortening the tailboom, major changes.

    

   The second tailboom in my MKIII was shortened one    foot.  Luckily I did not have to fly it long before it was time to change    to the correct standard length.  I would never have thought that one    change would affect the flight characteristics of my MKIII, but it did,    adversely...

    

   I'm not an aeronautical engineer, but seems to me    that moving the wings back 2.5" and moving the tail section forward by what    ever the tail boom was shortened, will drastically influence the flight    characteristics of whatever model Kolb Bill S intends to fly.

    

   john h

   mkIII

    

    

    	  Quote: 	
		        John H and      yourself are missing his point of how flexable the basic Kolb design has      proven to be. As Bill stated more than once, he has no plans of doing any      major changes to his own bird. He is only pointing out the obvious      flexability of Homers creation.

      

     Denny Rowe





href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

	
   

     4/16/2008    5:34 PM

[b]

BMWBikeCrz(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:38 am Post subject: Firestar Project

WE have a fairly new Kolb Owner in O'Brian Fl 

 

 Very High Time Navy Pilot ... First Kolb Flight was a real White Knuckle Experiance for him !

 

 Have Your Brother In Law Get Some Dual in a taildragger Ultralight FIRST  !!!

 

 How do I know this ... "Personal Experiance"

 

                                                 Dave

**************

Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.

      (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)  [quote][b]

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: Firestar Project

Dave , I dont know if we have met but I am an experienced Kolb pilot who also lives in O'Brien Fl. for about 3months a year . 22004 117Th drive ,and I am building a new Firefly in my New Quonset hut Hanger . Good advice you gave that guy but if he cant find a two place ultralight to get time in I recommend he get some time in a Switzer 233 a glider really teaches what Flight is all about . Chris  



 ---

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: Firestar project

My wife and I went to the first seasonal meeting of the Silver Wings Ultralight club in Palmer, Mass. last week. Very friendly people, informative, and my wife fell in love with the place. We rented a trailer and moved the plane up there on Sunday. Ed Harvey (of this List) was there to give us a hand with the unload and tie down. I wanted to move it ASAP to get opinions as to what I had missed, and the first apparent thing is a slight negative dihedral on the right wing. It was not obvious in the back yard. I may have the struts on the wrong side, or have to make a correction. The plane looks a lot smaller out on the field. Ed has a nice looking Firefly- he is the builder. We also got to see a Mitchell Wing fly. From the ground it looked like I should have been holding the kite string. Refresher lessons are in the works. We had to get the trailer back, so we didn't hang around. 

    To any lurkers or Kolb owner wannabes- don't be shy. Everybody is  very friendly and helpful, and enthusiastic about the sport. They are more than willing to offer tips and assistance. About 14 people showed up at the meeting, and i believe about 35 people were notified about it. 

    My wife is more interested in something a little easier to get into than the old Firestar, but she wants a little enclosure. She liked the looks of a Hurricane, and the Mitchell. We will have to see Dana's Ultrastar- has anyone seen a similar Kolb with a pod? She is looking forward to shopping for another plane.

    Wx outlook poor this week, but I may be able to sneak up and do something about the struts- if I have to adjust the length I can install the spare (streamlined steel) ones to hold the wings up, and bring the round aluminum ones home.

    I also have to do a full power run-up. I didn't want to do it in the back yard and annoy the neighbors. I also want to burn up the gas in the tank on the ground- taxi  practice, maybe. The gas is months old, and too expensive to waste.

   

  do not archive

                                                         Bill Sullivan

                                                         FS/KX/447

                                                          Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: Firestar project

Bill S:

  

 That old gas may be just what the rings are looking  for to help them stick.  What goes through the carb filters through the  entire engine, crankcase, bearings, and all.

  

 If it was mine, I'd either dump the old gas in a  tractor or the pickup truck, or if I was not sure of it, I'd either dump or  start a brush pile with it.

  

 john h

 mkIII

 [quote]    The gas is months old, and too expensive    to waste.

    

   do not archive

                                                             Bill Sullivan

                                                              

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: Firestar project

I went to the airport to switch the wing struts side to side, and found out that there is a right and left. That corrected a slight negative dihedral.

    A full power engine run-up produced 6500 rpm. I only held it for about a minute, and CHT was only about 250. 

    Low speed taxi tests went very well, doing S-turns, straight, and U-turns to both sides. Very easy to handle, and very predictable. Best taxi rpm was 2700, and much below that the engine would load up during extended running. I made about 8 round trips on a 900 foot runway. I stopped to talk to someone, and we noticed that both of the landing gear legs were bent. They were brand new, and apparently the previous owner had made some legs. Looked good, fit good, but soft as butter. I have the originals- only slightly bent- and will straighten and re-install. I think I'll pick up some spares. The other spare bent legs that came with the plane also show signs of not  being made by Kolb. They are going right in my scrap pile.

    I have to bring a drill and pop rivets for the pitot tube boss. I had used some epoxy paste to secure the tube to the mounting plate, and it stuck the plate to a decal under it. The decal, however, wasn't stuck to the nose too well.

    I intend to do about 8 hours of ground tests to thoroughly shake out any other problems. 

   

                                                                 Bill Sullivan

                                                                  FS/KX/447

                                                                 Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: Firestar project

Amigo Bill,



  As you have just found out, yes, wing struts DO have a left and right!



  What I do to keep them from being installed incorrectly is:  paint a small area (small, as in not very noticable unless you're looking for it) at the top of each strut.  GREEN paint for the right one, and RED paint for the left one.

Just like your Nav lights.



  You know the saying, how to remember the correct terminology for left and right on boats and airplanes; There was a sailor named RED who LEFT the PORT!   Left=Red=Port.



Mike Welch



Do not archive





________________________________



Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 19:47:39 -0700

From: williamtsullivan(at)att.net

Subject: Firestar project

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

  I went to the airport to switch the wing struts side to side, and found out that there is a right and left. That corrected a slight negative dihedral.



  A full power engine run-up produced 6500 rpm. I only held it for about a minute, and CHT was only about 250.



  Low speed taxi tests went very well, doing S-turns, straight, and U-turns to both sides. Very easy to handle, and very predictable. Best taxi rpm was 2700, and much below that the engine would load up during extended running. I made about 8 round trips on a 900 foot runway. I stopped to talk to someone, and we noticed that both of the landing gear legs were bent. They were brand new, and apparently the previous owner had made some legs. Looked good, fit good, but soft as butter. I have the originals- only slightly bent- and will straighten and re-install. I think I'll pick up some spares. The other spare bent legs that came with the plane also show signs of not being made by Kolb. They are going right in my scrap pile.



  I have to bring a drill and pop rivets for the pitot tube boss. I had used some epoxy paste to secure the tube to the mounting plate, and it stuck the plate to a decal under it. The decal, however, wasn't stuck to the nose too well.



  I intend to do about 8 hours of ground tests to thoroughly shake out any other problems.



                                                               Bill Sullivan



                                                               FS/KX/447



                                                               Windsor Locks, Ct.





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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:29 am Post subject: Firestar project

There was a sailor named RED who LEFT the PORT!   Left=Red=Port.>>

Hi,

we usually use `There is a little drop of RED, PORT, LEFT.  When I sailed 

the rule was RED CANS to PORT entering harbour with the tide.  In the States 

I have found them using the same rule but LEAVING port. Very confusing, I 

wonder where the system changees over?



Pat

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:52 am Post subject: Firestar project

In the States

 	  Quote: 	
		   I have found them using the same rule but LEAVING port. Very confusing, I 

 wonder where the system changees over?



 Pat


	




Patrick:



Don't try to confuse us.  



For as long as I can remember it has always been, "Red Right Returning". 

However, this is not always true when one is confronted by the Intercoastal 

Waterway.  There is a rule for that which is determined whether one is 

sailing clockwise our counter-clockwise on the Intercoastal.



Since I am flying my Kolb, and not sailing, I am not really concerned with 

my seamanship anymore.  My boat has been landlocked, high and dry, for many 

years.  Makes good lawn art.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:15 am Post subject: Firestar project

My boat has been landlocked, high and dry>>



Hi John,

sold my cruising cat. a long time ago but it really had me worried a few 

years back, watching orcas around Vancouver Island when the guy piloting 

this massive 30knot twin outboard  outfit started for home apparently down 

the wrong side of the buoys.



Cheers



Pat

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:11 am Post subject: Firestar Project

I started measuring all the spare legs I have, and the I called Travis at TNK. I got a surprise- none of the legs are a size that he has heard of. First- all of them are 1" diameter. Travis said there are only 3 stock diameters; Firefly is 1 1/8", Firestar is 1 1/4", and Mark lll is 1 3/8". All are the same length- 28 1/2". I have spares of 3 different lengths, but all are shorter. My axle end is 3/4", and Travis said all of the ones he knows about are 7/8". He said he has heard of somebody putting a piece of pipe in the "A" frame to bush it down,and I will look for it next trip. I have to look and measure before ordering, so I will be out to the field next week.

    He also commented that I may have some type of proto-type from the Old Kolb Co. That might explain all the odd dimensions and no serial number. 

    I described the bent legs from taxi testing, and he said that some people will make their own legs using 6061  aluminum. They are supposed to be 7075 T-651. The 6061 legs will bend just like I described. 

    

                                                      Bill Sullivan

                                                      FS/KX/447

                                                       Windsor Locks, Ct.

    

    

 [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: Firestar Project

Bill S:

  

 Original Firestar Gear Legs were 1".  The Old  Kolb Company put a aluminum tube bushing in the gear leg socket so it would  fit.

  

 The old Twinstar, the first two place Kolb, used an  1 1/8" gear leg.  Same socket with no aluminum bushing.

  

 I bent the 1" gear legs on my FS the first time I  taxiied it on my grass strip.  Called Little Mike at Old Kolb to send me  some Twinstar 1 1/8" legs.  They worked better, but my type flying called  for something better.  Thus, the experimentation and use of heat treated  4130 legs on my Kolbs since 1987.

  

 I don't think you have a prototype Kolb.  The  first Kolb I got with a serial number was my MKIII in January 1991,  M3-011.  The old Kolbs did not have serial numbers.

  

 I think the individual that built and/or modified  your Kolb is responsible for the odd dimensions.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

 [quote]    

     I started measuring all the spare legs I have, and the I called    Travis at TNK. I got a surprise- none of the legs are a size that he has heard    of. First- all of them are 1" diameter. Travis said there are only 3 stock    diameters; Firefly is 1 1/8", Firestar is 1 1/4", and Mark lll is 1    3/8".  

    

   He said he has heard of somebody putting a piece of pipe in the "A" frame    to bush it down 

    

     He also commented that I may have some type of proto-type from the    Old Kolb Co. That might explain all the odd dimensions and no serial number.    

       

    

                                                          Bill Sullivan

    

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: Firestar Project

We went to the airfield yesterday and switched out the bent LG legs. One of the bent ones is clearly marked 6061. Definately home made. Nice machine work, wrong material. We installed what appears to be the original legs, marked "R" and "L". Because they were only slightly bent, I put them in bent side up, until I do something permanently. I checked the sockets, and there is a piece of tubing in there to bush it down from 1 1/8" to 1". On one side the tube goes in 8 1/2", the other side is 9". I get my Kolb List info late due to a computer problem, so I didn't check to see if they were aluminum or steel. TNK doesn't have 1" ones, so I will have to see about converting. I think Larry's FS had the same lower axle fitting, so I may as well change that, too. I hope the tube are just tight in there, and not welded or something. A friend of mine has some reamers, and I will check with him. 

    There is still a slight negative dihedral on the right  wing, and I don't like the front adapter. That will be re-done shortly.

    I ran slow taxi tests up and down the field to check the old gear. I never went fast enough to lift the tail, but did the same U-turns, S-turns, and right and left turns to check the gear (and my back) on the bumps on the grass strip. I probably made another 8 laps, and it handles nicely- except for no brakes. 

    John H.- thanks for the history. I wonder why they were 1" originally, when there was room for the 1 1/8"? Strange.

   

                                                       Bill Sullivan

                                                        FS/KX/447

                                                       Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: Firestar Project

[quote] ---

_________________
do not archive

WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.co
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 7:51 am Post subject: Firestar Project

Bill Sullivan,

  

 I think what you have is an "original" design Kolb  FireStar.  This model debuted at Sun 'N Fun in 1985 and kits were sold for  several years until the introduction of the KX/KXP models.  If you can  find a copy of EAA Sport Aviation magazine, issued July 1985, you will see that  the 1985 FireStar is featured on the front cover, and inside there is a very  good five page story about Homer Kolb and his plane, with many  photos.

  

 During that time, Kolb was offering this as an  Ultralight, with the advertising literature stating a weight of 264  lbs. and the fact that it "Needs parachute to be legal ultralight".   That's because the FAA allows 24 extra pounds if that device is used, thus  an empty weight of 278 lbs.  (FAA mandated UL wt. 254 lbs. + Parachute  allowance of 24 lbs. = 278)

  

 The main gear legs were 7075-T6 tapered aluminum, 1" diameter  where they fit into the airframe, and used plastic wheels with a welded up  axle/bracket, with the axle part being a 3/4" tube, and no brakes.   All this was to keep the weight down.  Additional comments were to go  lightly with the paint (no silver), but did use some UV preventive in the  Polyfiber (Stits) paint.

   

 Also, as you have learned from John h and others, there was an  aluminum sleeve in the airframe to sleeve it down so the 1" legs would  fit.  Perhaps Homer had planned on using brakes in the future, which would  require a heavier duty gear leg and wheel, and maybe that's why the airframe  socket was made to accommodate the larger diameter leg. That is my  speculation.  At any rate, those 1" legs were VERY easy to bend, so most  owners have changed them out to the 1-1/8" size.   Criminy, even  the larger legs can be bent easily.  hehehe

  

  Bill  Varnes

Original Kolb FireStar

Audubon NJ



  

 In a message dated 5/3/2008 9:11:59 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  williamtsullivan(at)att.net writes:



   	  Quote: 	
		       I started measuring all the spare legs I have, and the I called    Travis at TNK. I got a surprise- none of the legs are a size that he has heard    of. First- all of them are 1" diameter. Travis said there are only 3 stock    diameters; Firefly is 1 1/8", Firestar is 1 1/4", and Mark lll is 1 3/8". All    are the same length- 28 1/2". I have spares of 3 different lengths, but all    are shorter. My axle end is 3/4", and Travis said all of the ones he    knows about are 7/8". He said he has heard of somebody putting a piece of pipe    in the "A" frame to bush it down,and I will look for it next trip. I have to    look and measure before ordering, so I will be out to the field next    week.

     He also commented that I may have some type of proto-type from the    Old Kolb Co. That might explain all the odd dimensions and no serial number.    

     I described the bent legs from taxi testing, and he said that some    people will make their own legs using 6061 aluminum. They are supposed to be    7075 T-651. The 6061 legs will bend just like I described. 

   

                                                          Bill Sullivan

                                                          FS/KX/447

                                                       Windsor    Locks, Ct.

   

   

 	  Quote: 	
		  



==============

ist href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

==============

://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

==============

f="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

==============



[/b] 	
	




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  [quote][b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:44 am Post subject: Firestar Project

Bill V.- Thanks for the history. It helps explain a lot of the odd things I've found, including the light weight. Between John H., you, and a couple of others on the List I'm gradually getting the whole story on the bird. Keep picking your memory.

   

                                               Bill Sullivan

                                               FS/KX/447

                                                Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

John Williamson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 146
Location: Arlington, TX

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Firestar Project

This was originally posted in September 2007.



This .pdf file is a short history of the Kolb line of aircraft. It might answer a few of your questions.

KolbHistory.pdf

Description:

Kolb Aircraft History

Download

Filename:

KolbHistory.pdf

Filesize:

672.63 KB

Downloaded:

474 Time(s)

_________________
John Williamson
Arlington, TX

Kolbra, 912ULS, 1640 hours
http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: Firestar project

John W.- Thanks. At this point, I think the plane is an Original Firestar, but with chopped wings to meet 103 specs. Maybe, as somebody indicated, designed this way. The original wingspan was about 25' 4". I added the later KX wings. At least I think they're KX. Nobody's come up with documentation for the short main tube yet. I will measure the original main spar tube- I'm not sure if it's 5" or 6". I also have a serial number on the engine, but that will have to wait for a trip to the airport. 

   

                                                 Bill Sullivan

                                                  FS/KX/447

                                                 Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

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