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Ethanol

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Charles Heathco

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 201

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:08 am Post subject: Ethanol

So far no one weems to know what the ethanol harms.  I was told by A&P in Atl that mogas would eat up seals, havent found  that, as my 6a  (150hp) has always been on low oct mogas exept for tank of  100ll in warm months because of vapor lock. I had to go to LL couple months ago  as my usual place to fill my cans came out with pix of corncobs hanging on pump,  sporting the words "enhanced" with ethanol, whattacrockl!  Im afraid  everybody going to it and not all telling about it. Testing for it, you find it,  then what? Several myths about fuel usage, anyone have a line on what this  eathonol can REALY harm? Charlie heathco Fayetteville  Ar.

   [quote][b]

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recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:35 am Post subject: Ethanol

An alternative question.....



Would those that are using ethanol enhanced car gas in their RV anyway admit to it and let us know the conditions under which they are using it, the issues that they have had and what they use as their limitations...???



For instance, we've read that ethanol doesn't degrade proseal or viton seals.  I've been told that my injection system will not be damaged by it.  The main issues that I see remaining are water freezing (blocking the fuel system) and water not igniting (when it gets into the combustion chamber - both of which could be eliminated by sumping the tanks and not flying to freezing conditions.



I'm not flying yet and don't know enough about this stuff to experiment myself either.  I'm just thinking that there may be usability under certain conditions.....



My .02.....



--

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JFLEISC(at)aol.com
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Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: Ethanol

In a message dated 6/6/2008 9:10:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  cheathco(at)cox.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  So far no one weems to know what the ethanol harms. I was    told by A&P in Atl that mogas would eat up seals, havent found that,    as my 6a  	


 

 It did swell my 'O' ring on the tank cap (RV-4). Switched to Buna-n and  haven't had the problem. Have had the Carb apart and everything looked like new  inside.

  

 Jim



Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.

  [quote][b]

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JFLEISC(at)aol.com
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Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:47 pm Post subject: Ethanol

In a message dated 6/6/2008 10:36:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  recapen(at)earthlink.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Would    those that are using ethanol enhanced car gas in their RV anyway admit to it    and let us know the conditions under which they are using it, the issues that    they have had and what they use as their limitations...???



For    instance, we've read that ethanol doesn't degrade proseal or viton    seals.  I've been told that my injection system will not be damaged by    it.  The main issues that I see remaining are water freezing (blocking    the fuel system) and water not igniting (when it gets into the combustion    chamber - both of which could be eliminated by sumping the tanks and not    flying to freezing conditions.

	


 

 Been using it for 5 to 6 years now. I think it did degrade my Proseal but  that stuff was nearly 20 years old and I hear say the newer blend doesn't  degrade. All other seals except the Vans gas cap 'O' ring seem OK.  During my 28 years as an auto mechanic we commonly poured isopropyl alcohol into  the gas tanks of cars to prevent gas line freezing so go figure. I have  flown the RV regularly on 10 degree (at ground level) winter days and the only  thing that froze was me.

  

 Jim



Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.

  [quote][b]

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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: Ethanol

Ralph E. Capen wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> (recapen(at)earthlink.net)



An alternative question.....



Would those that are using ethanol enhanced car gas in their RV anyway admit to it and let us know the conditions under which they are using it, the issues that they have had and what they use as their limitations...???

  	
 	
 Good one!  Experience, not urban legend would be a boon!

  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		  For instance, we've read that ethanol doesn't degrade proseal 	
 	
 I've seen it both ways ..... the difference could be how well and how exact the proseal proportions were, and the temp under which it cured ... there are quite a few variables when talking proseal.

  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		   or viton seals. 	
 	
 Viton seals seem to stand up under pretty much anything we'll ever toss at them.

  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		    I've been told that my injection system will not be damaged by it. 	
 	
 Again, too many variables .... type of controller, types of the seals etc. ..... My initiation was expensive ..... a rebuilt PS-5C carb.  However, I've heard that the alcohols are also corrosive to aluminum .... the injector lines are usually stainless steel, but the spider is aluminum.  I have no clue how corrosive it is ..... kinda like the 'causes cancer in lab rats' syndrome ..... maybe pure alcohol is corrosive to aluminum, but 10% is a non-issue.

  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		    The main issues that I see remaining are water freezing (blocking the fuel system) and water not igniting (when it gets into the combustion chamber - both of which could be eliminated by sumping the tanks and not flying to freezing conditions.

  	
 	
 For y'all up nawth ..... that use mogas additive to collect the water and avoid the freezing thingy ..... isn't it mainly alcohol????  Don't cars see temps far below freezing with no problems .... as long as they have the 'gas anti freeze'???  I've lived in the south so long I've forgotten what we called that stuff!!!   

  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		  

I'm not flying yet and don't know enough about this stuff to experiment myself either.  I'm just thinking that there may be usability under certain conditions.....

  	
 	
 I tend to agree.  I think the aircraft problems had to do with natural rubber in hoses and seals ..... which cannot stand up to the alcohol.  I doubt that anything built in the not-to-distant-past still has issues with alcohol.  Unfortunately, in this instance we're all test pilots .... and the possible failures ..... leaks ..... might be expensive to remedy.  By the time I get to actually deciding on which way to go .... fuel will probably be like avionics ...... a whole different ballgame.

 Linn

 do not archive

 [quote]   [quote] My .02.....  --

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sreynard

Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 13
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: Ethanol

 	  Quote: 	
		   degrade. All other seals except the Vans gas cap 'O' ring seem OK. During my

 28 years as an auto mechanic we commonly poured isopropyl alcohol into the

 gas tanks of cars to prevent gas line freezing so go figure. I have flown

 the RV regularly on 10 degree (at ground level) winter days and the only

 thing that froze was me.



 Jim


	


When I was stationed in Korea, we used to add a 5 gallons of denatured

alcohol to our tanks (M60A3) to prevent freezing.  About the only

effect I noticed was frozen drool from the guys looking at all that

alcohol going to waste. . . .



Steve

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ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: Ethanol

JFLEISC(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   In a message dated 6/6/2008 9:10:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 

 cheathco(at)cox.net writes:



     So far no one weems to know what the ethanol harms. I was told by

     A&P in Atl that mogas would eat up seals, havent found that, as my

     6a  



 It did swell my 'O' ring on the tank cap (RV-4). Switched to Buna-n 

 and haven't had the problem. Have had the Carb apart and everything 

 looked like new inside.

  

 Jim


	


The additives in non-alcoholic mogas will cause the old original o-rings 

to swell, also. That's the only noticeable side effect of running 

non-alcoholic premium mogas that I've noticed.



As Jim says, there's a simple cure. It would probably be wise to check 

any 'rubber' gascolator gaskets, etc, also.



Lots of older (20+ years) sealant wasn't alcohol resistant. Most of the 

newer stuff I've researched is rated on the data sheets to resist 

alcohol & 'all current additives in automotive & aviation fuels'. The 

place to go for reliable info is straight to the sealant manufacturer.



Charlie

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