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Rudder seems stiff

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kitfoxnick

Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Northern Maryland

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:55 am Post subject: Rudder seems stiff

I bought my kitfox at the end of April.  The plane had low times and was finished back 1996 so it sat more than flew.  I decided to replace the fuel lines firewall forward new carb boots.  I replaced the gsc with a warp drive.  A friend of mine who owns a model IV flew the five hours off on the new prop as I don't have my license yet.  Yesterday was my 1st flight it and seems that the rudder is really stiff at cruising speed.  The rudder and stabilizer is not the airfoil style and is not gap sealed.  My friend who's plane has the speedster tail said his rudder is alot easier than mine.

It seems that the rudder pedals would fatigue with this much pressure as these are the older style that have not been gusseted.  What is the best remedy?  I would like to make the rudder input easier.  Or should I just deal with as this is normal.  I really appreciate this forum and your guys expertise.

Thanks again,

Nick

_________________
Nick Weiskopf
Norrisville, MD
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Rudder seems stiff

You can gap seal just like the elevator.  2" tape stuck on top of each other then put along one side, slide into the gap and then stuck on the other side, make sure the rudder is pulled to one side before doing the final stick. Closing the gap will ease up the force applied to the peddles.

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:18 am Post subject: Rudder seems stiff

Are the rudder pedals stiff when operating on the ground with the  

tailwheel off the ground? You might look for stiff bearings at the  

rudder hinge, or misaligned rudder bearings...if the rudder bearings  

don't all line up with each other, that condition will require high  

input force. Also, make sure that the rudder pedal bushings are  

free...you can lube them up nicely when you have them out for  

installation of the gussets. You ARE going to gusset them, aren't you?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/530 hrs





On Jun 22, 2008, at 1:55 PM, nick4853 wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I bought my kitfox at the end of April.  The plane had low times  

 and was finished back 1996 so it sat more than flew.  I decided to  

 replace the fuel lines firewall forward new carb boots.  I replaced  

 the gsc with a warp drive.  A friend of mine who owns a model IV  

 flew the five hours off on the new prop as I don't have my license  

 yet.  Yesterday was my 1st flight it and seems that the rudder is  

 really stiff at cruising speed.  The rudder and stabilizer is not  

 the airfoil style and is not gap sealed.  My friend who's plane has  

 the speedster tail said his rudder is alot easier than mine.

 It seems that the rudder pedals would fatigue with this much  

 pressure as these are the older style that have not been gusseted.   

 What is the best remedy?  I would like to make the rudder input  

 easier.  Or should I just deal with as this is normal.  I really  

 appreciate this forum and your guys expertise.

 Thanks again,

 Nick



 --------

 kitfox !V-1200

 Rotax 912ul





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189084#189084

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

kitfoxnick

Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Northern Maryland

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Rudder seems stiff

I haven't raised the tail and tried it, I'll try tomorrow.    It taxis with less effort than at cruise.  It has 103 hrs on it with no sign of fatigue But yes I am going to gusset the post and cable attachment.

_________________
Nick Weiskopf
Norrisville, MD
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: Rudder seems stiff

At 10:55 AM 6/22/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  It seems that the rudder pedals would fatigue with this much 

pressure as these are the older style that have not been 

gusseted.  What is the best remedy?  I would like to make the rudder 

input easier.  Or should I just deal with as this is normal.


	


         Doesn't sound like it's normal, according to the other guy. Try:



1. Gusset the rudder pedals. It's a known problem and the rudder 

pedals take a hell of a load. (Not from the rudder, but from the brakes.)



2. Try the rudder with the tail lifted. Is it very free? It should 

be. If not, find out why.



3. Are the rudder tillers too long? Do you have too much rudder 

throw? +/-30 degrees should be enough.



4. If you gap seal the rudder, you'll get a lot more effect around 

zero, a lot more "sensitivity".



5. Stupid question time. Are you pushing on both pedals when you use 

rudder? (Don't laugh, I've caught myself doing this innumerable 

times. Why? I don't know. Maybe I'm trying to be precise.)

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:34 am Post subject: Re: Rudder seems stiff

on the ground all controls should be free and easy. 

elevator should fall with gravity. Rudder should be totally free. IF not something is binding and  that is not good.  



In the air all controls will get "stiffer"  with speed.

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kitfoxnick

Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Northern Maryland

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Rudder seems stiff

I raised the tail today seems pretty free.  Took off the rudder pedals to gusset them.  I guess this is just due to to the non airfoil vertical fin?  Both kitfox IV's I flew in had the airfoil and seemed like less effort than this one.  I'll tape the gap and see if that doesn't make a difference.  No I'm not pushing both pedals but I agree that would be stupid.



thanks,

Nick

_________________
Nick Weiskopf
Norrisville, MD
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul

FlyboyTR

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Rudder seems stiff

I have a Vixen (Series 5).  When I purchased the plane I felt the rudder was a bit tight.  I guess I got used to it.  Over time my rudder started getting stiffer and stiffer.  It turned out to be the rudder pedal bushings.  They were almost locked in place.  I had to actually machine them down a little bit to make them fit without binding.  The difference was amazing.  ...smooth an easy!



Travis

_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website)

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Rudder seems stiff

like I said  a few days  a go.....



 	  Quote: 	
		  Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:34 am    Post subject: Re: Rudder seems stiff    



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

on the ground all controls should be free and easy. 

elevator should fall with gravity. Rudder should be totally free. IF not something is binding and that is not good. 



In the air all controls will get "stiffer" with speed.

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: Rudder seems stiff

If you have a Maule tailwheel it might have too many friction washers in it.

See if the tailwheel is the culprit.



Jeff

peteohms

Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Location: Leander, TX

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: Rudder seems stiff

If your rudder is stiff for more than 4 hours, please see a doctor.



Sorry I couldnt resist.



Pete

Kitfox III

912 ul

Hell Paso, TX

_________________
Pete
Leander, TX
Kitfox III, 912ul, Grove

kitfoxnick

Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Northern Maryland

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Rudder seems stiff

Thanks for all the suggestions.  I Jacked the tail up everything seemed pretty easy and smooth no noticeable binding or friction.  I took the pedals off and gusseted with 4130.  Going to install tomorrow.  After I took the pedals off I was able to pull the rudder easily with my hands using the cables.   Another question What should I lubricate the rudder pedal pivot bushings with?

_________________
Nick Weiskopf
Norrisville, MD
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul

mscotter

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 49
Location: Winston-Salem, NC

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: Rudder seems stiff

Or call a producer!



Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T



--

_________________
Mark Scott
Winston-Salem, NC

kitfoxnick

Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Northern Maryland

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Rudder seems stiff

Hey Mark noticed your in Elkton I'm in Northern Harford county.  Just wondering were your flying out of maybe hook up some time.

Thanks,

Nick W.

_________________
Nick Weiskopf
Norrisville, MD
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul

mscotter

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 49
Location: Winston-Salem, NC

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: Rudder seems stiff

Hi Nick, I fly with my father out of N57, New Garden, which is in Toughkenamon, Pa, ~25minute drive north from Elkton.  It's a neat little airport.  It's a bit run down, but has a real variety of aircraft from warbirds to antiques & classics, homebuilts, etc.  

  

 I have yet to fly in a Kitfox myself.  Grew up around aviation due to my father's military career and flying with him in his airplanes (various spam cans).  He currently has a Cirrus which he graciously lets me get some stick time on.  

  

 Would love to hook up some time.  Maybe seeing a Kitfox flying would be just the motivation I need to get to work.  If you'd rather call then email my cell# is 443-907-7200.  Of course, email is fine too. 

 -Mark S

  

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: "nick4853" <nweiskopf(at)verizon.net> 



[quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "nick4853" 

 

 Hey Mark noticed your in Elkton I'm in Northern Harford county. Just wondering 

 were your flying out of maybe hook up some time. 

 Thanks, 

 Nick W. 

 

 -------- 

 kitfox !V-1200 

 Rotax 912ul [b]

_________________
Mark Scott
Winston-Salem, NC

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