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mono brake mounting

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rowlandcarson(at)googlema
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:51 am Post subject: mono brake mounting

The manual shows a measurement for positioning the monowheel brake 

master cylinder which looks as though it might be made parallel to 

the top corenr of the tunnel moulding. However, that would put one of 

the mounting holes in a brown foam area which would obviously crush 

when the mounting fastener was tightened. However, measuring 

horizontally with the fuselage lying on the ground (instead of 

slantwise along the top corner of the tunnel) puts both holes in a 

plain resin area, which I feel confident is the correct location.



However, (since I can't rely on the picture on the manual) I'm 

wondering about the angle at which the master cylinder is mounted. 

Should it be parallel to the tunnel top, or should it be as near to 

horizontal as possible (with the fuselage level), or should it be 

horizontal in the tail-down attitude (to make bleeding easier)?



Any suggestions?



regards



Rowland

-- 

| Rowland Carson                  ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

| <rowlandcarson(at)googlemail.com>          http://home.clara.net/rowil/

John Heykoop

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 15

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: mono brake mounting

Rowland

  

 There is a metal insert in the tunnel wall (the area you call the  "plain resin area"). The mounting holes need to go in this area,  parallel to the top of the tunnel as shown in the  illustration.           

  

 John Heykoop

 XS mono G-JHKP

  

 In a message dated 28/06/2008 09:52:40 GMT Standard Time,  rowlandcarson(at)googlemail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  The    manual shows a measurement for positioning the monowheel brake 

master    cylinder which looks as though it might be made parallel to 

the top corenr    of the tunnel moulding. However, that would put one of 

the mounting holes    in a brown foam area which would obviously crush 

when the mounting    fastener was tightened. However, measuring 

horizontally with the fuselage    lying on the ground (instead of 

slantwise along the top corner of the    tunnel) puts both holes in a 

plain resin area, which I feel confident is    the correct location.



However, (since I can't rely on the picture on    the manual) I'm 

wondering about the angle at which the master cylinder is    mounted. 

Should it be parallel to the tunnel top, or should it be as near    to 

horizontal as possible (with the fuselage level), or should it be    

horizontal in the tail-down attitude (to make bleeding easier)?



Any    suggestions?



regards



Rowland

	


 

  

     [quote][b]

rowlandcarson(at)googlema
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: mono brake mounting

At 2008-06-28 21:58 -0400 JohnDHeykoop(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  There is a metal insert in the tunnel wall (the area you call the 

"plain resin area"). The mounting holes need to go in this area, 

parallel to the top of the tunnel


	


John - thanks for that confirmation.



So, if the cylinder is parallel to the top of the tunnel, the filling 

hole will be at the lower end of the cylinder. How does the air in 

the upper end of the cylinder get expelled when trying to fill the 

brake system with fluid or to bleed it? All sounds potentially messy.



Seems it would be better if the cylinder was tilted downwards at the 

front so the filler hole was at the highest point of the cylinder - 

of course that would reduce the length of lever available above the 

tunnel so would probably be undesirable. I suppose one answer would 

be to tilt the whole fuselage tail-up when filling the brake system 

...



regards



Rowland

-- 

| Rowland Carson  LAA #16532    http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/

| 1030 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI  e-mail <rowil(at)clara.net>

josok-e(at)ukolo.fi
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: mono brake mounting

Hi Rowland,



In the mean time i filled the brake system several times. First time before the first flight, second and third time because there was a leak at the top connection of the nylon tube, (too tight is not good here), and the last time when the tube got loose after my wheel up landing. It's not that difficult to get the air out. I squeeze the oil from the bottom up, until it runs out of the slightly opened filler hole. Be prepared to catch the oil with a cloth or paper though! And eh, where there has been oil, paint will never stick, whatever cleaning you do. Better to wait with the filling till after the paint job. 



Regards,



Jos Okhuijsen

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

John Heykoop

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 15

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: mono brake mounting

In a message dated 29/06/2008 19:15:22 GMT Standard Time,  rowlandcarson(at)googlemail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  So, if    the cylinder is parallel to the top of the tunnel, the filling 

hole will    be at the lower end of the cylinder. How does the air in 

the upper end of    the cylinder get expelled when trying to fill the 

brake system with fluid    or to bleed it? All sounds potentially messy.



Seems it would be better    if the cylinder was tilted downwards at the 

front so the filler hole was    at the highest point of the cylinder - 

of course that would reduce the    length of lever available above the 

tunnel so would probably be    undesirable. I suppose one answer would 

be to tilt the whole fuselage    tail-up when filling the brake system 	


 

 Rowland

  

 Don't worry about bleeding the brake system - other people have managed to  do it. If you deviate from the manual and fit the cylinder tilting  downwards you could potentially run into much more serious problems, like not  being able to retract the wheel fully.

  

 John

     [quote][b]

pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:46 pm Post subject: mono brake mounting

Rowland,  

The fluid topping problem is simple you just ask someone to lift the tail !!!!!!!  

Pete      

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JohnDHeykoop(at)aol.com

 Sent: 30 June 2008 00:31

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: mono brake mounting  

   

       

In a message dated 29/06/2008 19:15:22 GMT Standard Time, rowlandcarson(at)googlemail.com writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

So, if the cylinder is parallel to the top of the tunnel, the filling 

 hole will be at the lower end of the cylinder. How does the air in 

 the upper end of the cylinder get expelled when trying to fill the 

 brake system with fluid or to bleed it? All sounds potentially messy.

 

 Seems it would be better if the cylinder was tilted downwards at the 

 front so the filler hole was at the highest point of the cylinder - 

 of course that would reduce the length of lever available above the 

 tunnel so would probably be undesirable. I suppose one answer would 

 be to tilt the whole fuselage tail-up when filling the brake system   	
  

    

Rowland  

    

   

    

Don't worry about bleeding the brake system - other people have managed to do it. If you deviate from the manual and fit the cylinder tilting downwards you could potentially run into much more serious problems, like not being able to retract the wheel fully.  

    

   

    

John  

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rowlandcarson(at)googlema
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:17 am Post subject: mono brake mounting

At 2008-06-28 21:58 -0400 JohnDHeykoop(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  There is a metal insert in the tunnel wall (the area you call the 

"plain resin area"). The mounting holes need to go in this area, 

parallel to the top of the tunnel as shown in the illustration


	


John - thanks for your reply.



The metal insert in my cockpit module must be a quite exotic alloy as 

I can see through it! That's why I said it was a "plain resin" area - 

obviously it has glass weave too.



But now I'm wondering - is my cockpit module faulty? Can anyone else 

confirm that the brake master cylinder mounting area contains a metal 

insert as John found on his?



regards



Rowland

-- 

| Rowland Carson                  ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

| <rowlandcarson(at)googlemail.com>          http://home.clara.net/rowil/

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: mono brake mounting

Rowland,

I can confirm that my cockpit module had an aluminum plate for the brake master cylinder mount  molded into the cockpit module.  If you will go to my build web site ( http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL/ ), album Year #2, Q3 2004.  Go down the page to the pic "Brake master cylinder bolted in place."  The view is from the bottom of the cockpit module.  You can plainly see the aluminum plate bonded into the cockpit module.

You should contact the factory to see if your CM is correct or defective.  If your CM has been bonded in place already, it may be that you just need to bond the appropriate chunk of aluminum to the back side with Araldite and cover with a couple plys of BID.  Or, perhaps take the appropriate chunk of aluminum, use it as a template to mark the area on the inside of the CM where it will reside.  Cut out the inner layer of BID and remove the layer of foam.  Bond the chunk of aluminum in place with Araldite, using Araldite/FLOX to fill any cracks.  If necessary, make a FLOX fillet around to provide a transition to the inner skin, and lay up at least two layers of BID on the back side, maybe more.  Other folks suggestions as to the number of layups would be welcome.  Probably need to overlap the inner skin by at least 1 inch (2.5 cm).  I might go 2 inches (5 cm).  Of course, be sure to scuff sand every bonding surface, aluminum and fiberglass.

Hope this helps.

Good building and great flying,

Bob Borger

Cell: 817-992-1117 (U.S.A access codes)

On Thursday, July 03, 2008, at 09:30AM, "Rowland Carson" <rowlandcarson(at)googlemail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

At 2008-06-28 21:58 -0400 JohnDHeykoop(at)aol.com wrote:

>There is a metal insert in the tunnel wall (the area you call the 

>"plain resin area"). The mounting holes need to go in this area, 

>parallel to the top of the tunnel as shown in the illustration

John - thanks for your reply.

The metal insert in my cockpit module must be a quite exotic alloy as 

I can see through it! That's why I said it was a "plain resin" area - 

obviously it has glass weave too.

But now I'm wondering - is my cockpit module faulty? Can anyone else 

confirm that the brake master cylinder mounting area contains a metal 

insert as John found on his?

regards

Rowland

-- 

| Rowland Carson                  ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

| <rowlandcarson(at)googlemail.com>          http://home.clara.net/rowil/

karelvranken(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: mono brake mounting

Rowland,

As you remember perhaps we were in Kirbymoorside the same day to pick up the 

first stage of our millenium deal. So I think we had similar parts. Also for 

the cockpit module we have about the same construction. Indeed the 

reinforced place for the attachment of the brake cylinder is clear glassed 

as you can see in the pictures attached. The first one is looking as if 

there is metal inside. But when you put the light underneath then it becomes 

clear. Note the different position of my brake cylinder and different 

throttle.

Best regards

Karel Vranken

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m.grass(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:45 am Post subject: mono brake mounting

Bob, Rowland,



I have the piece here in my hands as it was a part I had to cut away to make 

room for my trigear brake cylinder mod. No metal insert here. I have to 

admit, if you do not attempt to shine light through, it has the appearance 

of a metal insert.



Regards



Michael Grass

---

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:48 am Post subject: mono brake mounting

Rowland,



My tunnel has an area about 3" square in this spot which looks darker,

however I am pretty sure it does not contain any metal inserts. This is

about where I am planning to mount the finger brakes, converted from toe

brakes.



Regards,

Greg Fuchs



--

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:07 am Post subject: mono brake mounting

I should have mentioned that I drilled 2 holes here, to mount the finger

brake assembly, and do not remember any metal flakes coming out with the

bit. I will look at the holes again this weekend, just to be sure. If

anything changes, I will post again. Possibly, there was a manufacturing

change of the cockpit module, which took out the metal insert? This may

explain why Bob B. has one in his module...



Greg Fuchs

____________________________________________________________________



...

But now I'm wondering - is my cockpit module faulty? Can anyone else 

confirm that the brake master cylinder mounting area contains a metal 

insert as John found on his?



regards



Rowland

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: mono brake mounting

Rowland, Michael,



I finally had to opportunity to get under my aircraft and pull the  

masking from the wheel well area so I could get in to see what is  

going on.  There is no aluminum plate in there.  It is some sort of  

reinforced area and I have no idea what is actually acting as  

reinforcement.



I guess your CM is OK.  Get that brake master installed.



Good building and great flying,

Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S

http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

(95% done, only 95% to go) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module  

installed, pitch system in, landing gear complete, rudder system in  

with Singleton Mod, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap  

pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in,  baggage bay  

in. Fuel system complete.  Rotax and Airmaster installed.  Mods 62,  

66, 70 & 72 done.  Completed the instrument panel install.   Europa  

interior kit being installed.  Installed windows.  Working in -  25  

Electrical, 28 Flaps, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35  

Doors, 37 Finishing.   Mostly finishing these days.

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117

On Jul 4, 2008, at 8:41, Michael Grass wrote:



[quote] 

 >



 Bob, Rowland,



 I have the piece here in my hands as it was a part I had to cut away  

 to make room for my trigear brake cylinder mod. No metal insert  

 here. I have to admit, if you do not attempt to shine light through,  

 it has the appearance of a metal insert.



 Regards



 Michael Grass

 ---

erichdtrombley(at)juno.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: mono brake mounting

Regarding the reinforcement for the mono brake.  On earlier CM the builder had to cut out the foam and replace it with a plywood insert and then glass over it. Can't speak to the XS cockpit module as the above was for the classic.



Erich Trombley

N28ET Classic 914



____________________________________________________________

Sweepstakes!!! 

Enter for your chance to WIN a summer spa getaway!

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Rowland_Carson

Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 155
Location: Cheltenham, England

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:25 am Post subject: mono brake mounting

At 2008-07-04 18:22 -0500 Robert Borger wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I finally had to opportunity to get under my aircraft and pull the 

masking from the wheel well area so I could get in to see what is 

going on.  There is no aluminum plate in there.  It is some sort of 

reinforced area and I have no idea what is actually acting as 

reinforcement.


	


Bob - I had a word with the factory today on the phone.



Roger went down to the shop where they have just completed a new 

cockpit module and the technician there said they make a rectangular 

cutout there in the brown foam and put in 12 layers of glass to make 

it up to the same thickness as the foam before the top layer of 

pre-preg goes on.



Maybe once upon a time they did use a metal insert and that is what 

some people have got. The Classic CM had no prepared area and 

required the builder to cut away one side of the glass and the foam 

and replace it with plywood before re-glassing.



Thanks for your confidence-building response.



regards



Rowland

-- 

| Wilma & Rowland Carson    http://home.clara.net/rowil/

| <rowil(at)clara.net>          ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

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