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IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: : Lightning-List |
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Hey Nick: I know it is none of my business, but did you have a good show and sell lots of Lightnings? I hope you did. Do you have any idea when N13LN might make its first flight?
Lynn
In a message dated 8/5/2008 9:37:47 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, info(at)flylightning.net writes:
| Quote: | --> Lightning-List message posted by: "flylightning" <info(at)flylightning.net>
To Group,
Arion aircraft will post a longer more detailed read in the next news
letter, but here are a few thoughts. First the "approved" list is not a
prerequisite for and EAB inspection or certificate, it only makes the DARs
job easier in determining who did the major portion of the work. With this
in mind keep very detailed builders logs of what you are doing why and how
and you will not have a problem. This was discussed in length at several
forums at EAA (forgive me if I do not call it Airventure) and this was the
general consensus. There is nothing wrong with the current rule however
determining major portion and how to enforce it has loosened. This is the
focus and it was made clear that those building aircraft at home weather on
the list or not, if showing proof thru builders logs or photos and notes
would not have a problem showing that they did the work and would not have a
problem receiving there AWCs. The FAA has extended the comment period for
the proposed policy, This is key, it is a policy and not a rule, they do not
even have to show it to us if they want, but they are. So email
miguel.vasconcelos(at)faa.gov with your comments. Please do not send screamers.
They will not listen to them and they made that very clear. When sending a
comment make it clear what you think is wrong and than propose how it could
be fixed or adjusted this is what they want to see. It is our privilege to
build these aircraft at home and it is our job to help the FAA understand
that and keep it alive.
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft, LLC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hugh Sontag
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:27 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: 51% Rule
--> Lightning-List message posted by: Hugh Sontag <flying(at)qdea.com>
I suspect "grandfathering" is more likely to apply to aircraft on the
FAA's list, not to any kit currently being produces.
I looked through that list, and I was surprised at how few aircraft
were on it, and how many were aircraft that no one would build today,
like the Cirrus VK-30.
The part that I've always had trouble sorting out is what the
percentage refers to.
It could be that a tail is considered to be 30% of the aircraft, so
if you "fabricated" the tail, you'd be done with the fabrication
requirement.
Is it percent of time, and if so, what time? A fuselage for a
Lightning takes only a very few hours to "fabricate" at the factory
once the molds have been built, so maybe it only contributes a few
hours to the total "fabrication and assembly time" for the aircraft.
If that's the case, the lower the total number of hours needed to
fabricate and assemble the factory-supplied parts, the fewer the
hours the amateur builder needs to put into the aircraft to meet the
51% rule.
That may be the saving grace for the Lightning, in that the nature of
an airplane built from composite molds is such that there aren't that
many total hours.
Hugh Sontag
| Quote: | Buz,
I understand you have quoted the AOPA here, but are you getting the
impression that "Existing kit designs essentially would be
grandfathered" or that "Existing kit designs, already on the FAA's
51% list, essentially would be grandfathered"?
In this case the difference could be critical because the Lightning
is not already on the FAA's 51% list.
Colin K.
OK
Lightning # 52 under construction.
<http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken>http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
n5pb(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 5:08 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: 51% Rule
Buz,
This is good to know, especially since I begin my build in September at
SYI!
|
| Quote: |
"Bear"
-----Original Message-----
From: N1BZRich(at)aol.com
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:16 am
Subject: Re: 51% Rule
Tim,
From one retired AF fighter pilot to another - welcome aboard.
The answer to your 51% rule question is still a bit "up in the air"
but we should have a better understanding of the new FAA proposal
after Oshkosh (I am there now). But reading their proposal, I think
the Lightning should be OK. Below is a summary of what the AOPA has
to say about the new proposal. We will get the EAA's take
in several forums during the convention.
Blue Skies,
Buz Rich
The FAA is scrutinizing "fast build" homebuilt aircraft programs and
with that may come policy changes that affect future kit designs.
The FAA has released several
<http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/draft_docs/display_docs/index.cfm?Doc_Type=Pub
s>draft
|
| Quote: | documents to clarify the regulation of the homebuilt aircraft
segment. The biggest potential change is to the definition of the
so-called 51-percent rule. The FAA s original intention was that the
individual would fabricate more than 50 percent and assemble more
than 50 percent of the aircraft.
The FAA became concerned when fast-build kits entered the market
where an aircraft owner's contribution resulted in 51 percent of the
assembly only. The agency felt that this did not meet the intent of
building "solely for their own education or recreation."
The FAA now defines 51 percent as the builder completing, at a
minimum, 20 percent of the assembly and 20 percent of the
fabrication with the remaining 11 percent made up from either
additional assembly or fabrication. The FAA now states that the
commercial assistance or "for hire" building programs will not count
toward 20 percent of the assembly by the individual.
The policy changes would not affect those flying traditionally
certified aircraft or already completed amateur-built aircraft.
Existing kit designs essentially would be grandfathered, while new
models, after the rules go into effect, would get the extra scrutiny.
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<http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020>Sign
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target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
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[quote][b]
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info(at)flylightning.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:07 am Post subject: : Lightning-List |
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Lynn,
The show was busy lots of interest. I sloshed the tank last week once and I am going to do it again this afternoon, so 2 cotes. I will check for leaks on Wednesday, if no leaks we will get it back together. I should be able to fly next week. I would fly this week but I am leaving for Thursday and Friday and wont be around to fly. The rest of the crew is gone today and tomorrow so not much help here. They are coming back end of this week.
Nick
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:46 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: : Lightning-List
Hey Nick: I know it is none of my business, but did you have a good show and sell lots of Lightnings? I hope you did. Do you have any idea when N13LN might make its first flight?
Lynn
In a message dated 8/5/2008 9:37:47 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, info(at)flylightning.net writes:
[quote]
--> Lightning-List message posted by: "flylightning" <info(at)flylightning.net>
To Group,
Arion aircraft will post a longer more detailed read in the next news
letter, but here are a few thoughts. First the "approved" list is not a
prerequisite for and EAB inspection or certificate, it only makes the DARs
job easier in determining who did the major portion of the work. With this
in mind keep very detailed builders logs of what you are doing why and how
and you will not have a problem. This was discussed in length at several
forums at EAA (forgive me if I do not call it Airventure) and this was the
general consensus. There is nothing wrong with the current rule however
determining major portion and how to enforce it has loosened. This is the
focus and it was made clear that those building aircraft at home weather on
the list or not, if showing proof thru builders logs or photos and notes
would not have a problem showing that they did the work and would not have a
problem receiving there AWCs. The FAA has extended the comment period for
the proposed policy, This is key, it is a policy and not a rule, they do not
even have to show it to us if they want, but they are. So email
miguel.vasconcelos(at)faa.gov with your comments. Please do not send screamers.
They will not listen to them and they made that very clear. When sending a
comment make it clear what you think is wrong and than propose how it could
be fixed or adjusted this is what they want to see. It is our privilege to
build these aircraft at home and it is our job to help the FAA understand
that and keep it alive.
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft, LLC
--
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
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sttwig(at)wabroadband.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: : Lightning-List |
|
|
Nick,
What is "sloshing the tank"? Is that something we all need to do or
something to deal with a leaky fuel tank?
Steve
Kit #48
[quote] Lynn,
The show was busy lots of interest. I sloshed the tank last week once and
I
am going to do it again this afternoon, so 2 cotes. I will check for leaks
on Wednesday, if no leaks we will get it back together. I should be able
to
fly next week. I would fly this week but I am leaving for Thursday and
Friday and wont be around to fly. The rest of the crew is gone today and
tomorrow so not much help here. They are coming back end of this week.
Nick
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:46 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: : Lightning-List
Hey Nick: I know it is none of my business, but did you have a good show
and
sell lots of Lightnings? I hope you did. Do you have any idea when N13LN
might make its first flight?
Lynn
In a message dated 8/5/2008 9:37:47 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
info(at)flylightning.net writes:
<info(at)flylightning.net>
To Group,
Arion aircraft will post a longer more detailed read in the next news
letter, but here are a few thoughts. First the "approved" list is not a
prerequisite for and EAB inspection or certificate, it only makes the DARs
job easier in determining who did the major portion of the work. With this
in mind keep very detailed builders logs of what you are doing why and how
and you will not have a problem. This was discussed in length at several
forums at EAA (forgive me if I do not call it Airventure) and this was the
general consensus. There is nothing wrong with the current rule however
determining major portion and how to enforce it has loosened. This is the
focus and it was made clear that those building aircraft at home weather
on
the list or not, if showing proof thru builders logs or photos and notes
would not have a problem showing that they did the work and would not have
a
problem receiving there AWCs. The FAA has extended the comment period for
the proposed policy, This is key, it is a policy and not a rule, they do
not
even have to show it to us if they want, but they are. So email
miguel.vasconcelos(at)faa.gov with your comments. Please do not send
screamers.
They will not listen to them and they made that very clear. When sending a
comment make it clear what you think is wrong and than propose how it
could
be fixed or adjusted this is what they want to see. It is our privilege to
build these aircraft at home and it is our job to help the FAA understand
that and keep it alive.
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft, LLC
--
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
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info(at)flylightning.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:10 am Post subject: : Lightning-List |
|
|
Steve,
You shouldn't have to worry, lynns tanks is the first of 60 tanks that have
been flown to do this. Don't know why. The tank is sloshed with a sealant
before install, my only guess is something between than and install might
have caused a hole. This is to stop a leak using the same sealant as used
with the initial seal.
Nick
--
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
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