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matronics(at)bob.brennan.
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 Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
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Ok - showing my ignorance here...
The first picture is of the fuel drain for the wing tank which tends to leak and needs replacing. I got as far as http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/safair.php but the CAV-110, 160, 170, and 180 all look a lot like it. I know what an NPT thread is but where is the 1/4" or 1/8" measurement taken? Or the other measurements?
Second picture is my fuel filter. Any suggestions on a replacement? Advance Auto Parts or Manny Moe &Jack ok?
Third picture is the whats-it. Obviously a reservoir with some sort of lubricant which hasn't gone down since I have owned the plane. Obviously something I need to know about and service.
Bob Brennan - N717GB 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
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The measurement won't mean a lot to a person new to pipe threads.
The easiest way to become familiar with the various sizes of NPT
threads is to visit the hardware store and buy one each of 1/8, 1/4,
3/8 and 1/2...you won't use the 1/2 or 3/8 much in our aircraft, I
hope, except for the header tank, I think...take 'em home, and
compare the sizes to what you need to order. That's cheating, but
it'll get you to recognize the various sizes. Oh, yeah, get males and
females as well. Some places have a label wrapped around the part, so
I'd leave them right on the part until you learn to just spot the
size from experience. Eventually you'll use the samples fixing the
ol' house up. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are NOT go, and I'm
back to flying/testing/"guinea pigging"...damn it!
do not archive
On Oct 6, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
| Quote: | Ok - showing my ignorance here...
The first picture is of the fuel drain for the wing tank which
tends to leak and needs replacing. I got as far as http://
www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/safair.php but the CAV-110,
160, 170, and 180 all look a lot like it. I know what an NPT thread
is but where is the 1/4" or 1/8" measurement taken? Or the other
measurements?
Second picture is my fuel filter. Any suggestions on a replacement?
Advance Auto Parts or Manny Moe &Jack ok?
Third picture is the whats-it. Obviously a reservoir with some sort
of lubricant which hasn't gone down since I have owned the plane.
Obviously something I need to know about and service.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
|
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
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You remove the fuel drain to measure it. The size refers to the part that screws into the bottom of your tank.
I don’t use any “filters” on my fuel supply they are too easy to block. I use finger strainers in the tanks ( no sloshing compound to come free) and a gascolator with a fuel screen.. I drip my gascolator before every flight and clean it every 25 hr. 50 hr. Would be ok. My father had a much larger engine in his C170B/LA-4 and they only got cleaned on the annual.
The other little reservoir is for the water pump/rotary valve shaft. If you haven’t noticed it going down then all is well. If the oil in it turns milky your RV shaft seal is toast. There are specific instructions for bleeding the injector pump and the RV shaft in the Rotax Manuals available from http://www.rotax-owner.com/ Check the tabs for engine manuals and download your manual in pdf format for your engine.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 7:22 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
Ok - showing my ignorance here...
The first picture is of the fuel drain for the wing tank which tends to leak and needs replacing. I got as far as http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/safair.php but the CAV-110, 160, 170, and 180 all look a lot like it. I know what an NPT thread is but where is the 1/4" or 1/8" measurement taken? Or the other measurements?
Second picture is my fuel filter. Any suggestions on a replacement? Advance Auto Parts or Manny Moe &Jack ok?
Third picture is the whats-it. Obviously a reservoir with some sort of lubricant which hasn't gone down since I have owned the plane. Obviously something I need to know about and service.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
[quote][b]
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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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rjdaugh
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
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Bob,
I like NAPA 3095 for just ahead of the fuel pump on my 912S. I also use 2 NAPA 3011 filters at the exits of each wing tank.
I don’t know if these work for your tubing.
As far as the fittings. I think that that is a 1/8 “ fitting. You measure the inside of the pipe, but that is largely irrelevant because that depends upon the wall thickness. Get a 1/8 “ fitting and compare them to be sure.
I am waiting to learn what your reservoir is.
Randy
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 3:52 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
Ok - showing my ignorance here...
The first picture is of the fuel drain for the wing tank which tends to leak and needs replacing. I got as far as http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/safair.php but the CAV-110, 160, 170, and 180 all look a lot like it. I know what an NPT thread is but where is the 1/4" or 1/8" measurement taken? Or the other measurements?
Second picture is my fuel filter. Any suggestions on a replacement? Advance Auto Parts or Manny Moe &Jack ok?
Third picture is the whats-it. Obviously a reservoir with some sort of lubricant which hasn't gone down since I have owned the plane. Obviously something I need to know about and service.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
[quote][b]
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_________________
Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota |
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helili(at)chahtatushka.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
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Bob,
The fuel tank drains (at least the ones I’ve taken apart in the last 40 years) have a small “O” ring on them that is under constant compression. That “O” ring is notorious for deforming, especially if they have are made of nitrile or buna rubber and exposed to auto gas. I buy replacement “O” rings made of viton at a gasket supply house for about 10 cents each and just replace them rather than buying new drains. The viton materiel resists the effects of auto gas better than any other material I have tried. It’s a lot less expensive.
John Hart
KF IV NSI Subaru
Wilburton, OK
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 4:52 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
Ok - showing my ignorance here...
The first picture is of the fuel drain for the wing tank which tends to leak and needs replacing. I got as far as http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/safair.php but the CAV-110, 160, 170, and 180 all look a lot like it. I know what an NPT thread is but where is the 1/4" or 1/8" measurement taken? Or the other measurements?
Second picture is my fuel filter. Any suggestions on a replacement? Advance Auto Parts or Manny Moe &Jack ok?
Third picture is the whats-it. Obviously a reservoir with some sort of lubricant which hasn't gone down since I have owned the plane. Obviously something I need to know about and service.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
[quote][b]
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gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
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Bob
I didn't see your original post but the (Whatsit) sounds like the oil reservoir for your Rotary Valve lubrication.
Is it the small plastic bottle mounted on the aluminum angle above your CDI units?
If so this is a circulating lube system supplying a flow of oil to the rotary valve. If everything is in good order you shouldn't see the level drop. Also the cap has a rubber seal in it wit a small slit cut to allow pressure relief. Make sure you never replace this with a full seal as it will cause you some real pain.
I used to just take out the oil from the reservoir with a syringe about every 50 hrs and replace it - probably overkill but for a couple of ounces of two stroke oil I figured it was cheap insurance.
regards
Gary
Gary Algate
Classic 4 jabiru 2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
[quote][b]
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
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John:
My brain must be rusting out!!! I completely forgot about the O-rings in the drip valves. Butyl rings may work better now that there is ethanol in a lot of the fuel. I think the butyl is supposed to be more resistant to the ravages of ethanol.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Hart
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 9:13 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
Bob,
The fuel tank drains (at least the ones I’ve taken apart in the last 40 years) have a small “O” ring on them that is under constant compression. That “O” ring is notorious for deforming, especially if they have are made of nitrile or buna rubber and exposed to auto gas. I buy replacement “O” rings made of viton at a gasket supply house for about 10 cents each and just replace them rather than buying new drains. The viton materiel resists the effects of auto gas better than any other material I have tried. It’s a lot less expensive.
John Hart
KF IV NSI Subaru
Wilburton, OK
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 4:52 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
Ok - showing my ignorance here...
The first picture is of the fuel drain for the wing tank which tends to leak and needs replacing. I got as far as http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/safair.php but the CAV-110, 160, 170, and 180 all look a lot like it. I know what an NPT thread is but where is the 1/4" or 1/8" measurement taken? Or the other measurements?
Second picture is my fuel filter. Any suggestions on a replacement? Advance Auto Parts or Manny Moe &Jack ok?
Third picture is the whats-it. Obviously a reservoir with some sort of lubricant which hasn't gone down since I have owned the plane. Obviously something I need to know about and service.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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paul(at)eucleides.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
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On Mon, October 6, 2008 2:52 pm, Bob Brennan wrote:
| Quote: | Ok - showing my ignorance here...
The first picture is of the fuel drain for the wing tank which tends to leak
and needs replacing. I got as far as
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/safair.php but the CAV-110,
160, 170, and 180 all look a lot like it. I know what an NPT thread is but
where is the 1/4" or 1/8" measurement taken? Or the other measurements?
|
NPT - National Pipe Thread uses nominal dimensions based in ID of the fittings.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
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tc9008(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
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Mine had the # 110 on the end of the drain.
Travis
--
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matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
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As usual Lynn, best and easiest solution to the problem. I'll make a visit
to Lowes tomorrow and get those samples, maybe even make up a sample board
like they have in the fittings section. I forgot that is the best way to fit
a sample I usually bring in with me. And having done a fair amount of
plumbing work on my old house I am well familiar with NPT fittings, they're
just usually a lot bigger.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
--
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matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
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The drains in my plane are 18 years old now, and besides the slight leaks they're just not PRETTY anymore 
I will consider replacing parts, especially in the expensive gascolator, periodically once I put in some spanking new ones. Also a good opportunity to replace hoses with ethanol-resistant ones, even my local Turkey Hill station is "blending" now. I spoke to the station owner and even he doesn't know what gets delivered each day - but he knows the mix depends *entirely* on the daily price of ethanol vs gas. With oil prices dropping (I paid $2.99 for regular just yesterday) I may start to see ethanol blending reduced. Ethanol prices are not as volatile (pun definitely intended) as gas.
Bob Brennan - N717GB 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Hart
Sent: 06 October 2008 7:43 pm
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
Bob,
The fuel tank drains (at least the ones I’ve taken apart in the last 40 years) have a small “O” ring on them that is under constant compression. That “O” ring is notorious for deforming, especially if they have are made of nitrile or buna rubber and exposed to auto gas. I buy replacement “O” rings made of viton at a gasket supply house for about 10 cents each and just replace them rather than buying new drains. The viton materiel resists the effects of auto gas better than any other material I have tried. It’s a lot less expensive.
John Hart
KF IV NSI Subaru
Wilburton, OK
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 4:52 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
Ok - showing my ignorance here...
The first picture is of the fuel drain for the wing tank which tends to leak and needs replacing. I got as far as http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/safair.php but the CAV-110, 160, 170, and 180 all look a lot like it. I know what an NPT thread is but where is the 1/4" or 1/8" measurement taken? Or the other measurements?
Second picture is my fuel filter. Any suggestions on a replacement? Advance Auto Parts or Manny Moe &Jack ok?
Third picture is the whats-it. Obviously a reservoir with some sort of lubricant which hasn't gone down since I have owned the plane. Obviously something I need to know about and service.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
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Noel - "finger strainers"? Where does one get those? I had to throw out what I think you are talking about on the outlet of my wing tank - I foolishly sloshed with it in and the Kreem did a great job of sealing the whole thing water-tight. Live and learn.
Bob Brennan - N717GB 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: 06 October 2008 6:57 pm
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
You remove the fuel drain to measure it. The size refers to the part that screws into the bottom of your tank.
I don’t use any “filters” on my fuel supply they are too easy to block. I use finger strainers in the tanks ( no sloshing compound to come free) and a gascolator with a fuel screen.. I drip my gascolator before every flight and clean it every 25 hr. 50 hr. Would be ok. My father had a much larger engine in his C170B/LA-4 and they only got cleaned on the annual.
The other little reservoir is for the water pump/rotary valve shaft. If you haven’t noticed it going down then all is well. If the oil in it turns milky your RV shaft seal is toast. There are specific instructions for bleeding the injector pump and the RV shaft in the Rotax Manuals available from http://www.rotax-owner.com/ Check the tabs for engine manuals and download your manual in pdf format for your engine.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 7:22 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
Ok - showing my ignorance here...
The first picture is of the fuel drain for the wing tank which tends to leak and needs replacing. I got as far as http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/safair.php but the CAV-110, 160, 170, and 180 all look a lot like it. I know what an NPT thread is but where is the 1/4" or 1/8" measurement taken? Or the other measurements?
Second picture is my fuel filter. Any suggestions on a replacement? Advance Auto Parts or Manny Moe &Jack ok?
Third picture is the whats-it. Obviously a reservoir with some sort of lubricant which hasn't gone down since I have owned the plane. Obviously something I need to know about and service.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
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A number of replies agree that it is the supply of oil to the "rotary valve". So it takes normal 2 stroke oil? Mine is closer to the MIN mark than the MAX so I was thinking I should top it off.
Bob Brennan - N717GB 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary.algate(at)sandvik.com
Sent: 06 October 2008 8:08 pm
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
Bob
I didn't see your original post but the (Whatsit) sounds like the oil reservoir for your Rotary Valve lubrication.
Is it the small plastic bottle mounted on the aluminum angle above your CDI units?
If so this is a circulating lube system supplying a flow of oil to the rotary valve. If everything is in good order you shouldn't see the level drop. Also the cap has a rubber seal in it wit a small slit cut to allow pressure relief. Make sure you never replace this with a full seal as it will cause you some real pain.
I used to just take out the oil from the reservoir with a syringe about every 50 hrs and replace it - probably overkill but for a couple of ounces of two stroke oil I figured it was cheap insurance.
regards
Gary
Gary Algate
Classic 4 jabiru 2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
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Yes Bob
The same 2 stroke oil that you run in your fuel mix (I used Pennzoil for air-cooled engines).
I don't think the level is that critical but I kept mine to the upper mark
Regards
Gary
Gary Algate
Classic 4 Jabiru 2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
"Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>
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07/10/2008 01:15 PM
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Subject
RE: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
A number of replies agree that it is the supply of oil to the "rotary valve". So it takes normal 2 stroke oil? Mine is closer to the MIN mark than the MAX so I was thinking I should top it off.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary.algate(at)sandvik.com
Sent: 06 October 2008 8:08 pm
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
Bob
I didn't see your original post but the (Whatsit) sounds like the oil reservoir for your Rotary Valve lubrication.
Is it the small plastic bottle mounted on the aluminum angle above your CDI units?
If so this is a circulating lube system supplying a flow of oil to the rotary valve. If everything is in good order you shouldn't see the level drop. Also the cap has a rubber seal in it wit a small slit cut to allow pressure relief. Make sure you never replace this with a full seal as it will cause you some real pain.
I used to just take out the oil from the reservoir with a syringe about every 50 hrs and replace it - probably overkill but for a couple of ounces of two stroke oil I figured it was cheap insurance.
regards
Gary
Gary Algate
Classic 4 jabiru 2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
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Mine came in the plane. I expect you can get them through Aviall , Leavens (in Canada), Wicks Or even ACS. The reason I mentioned my tanks are not sloshed is because it has happened that sloshing compound has separated in the tank and blocked finger strainers.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 11:50 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
Noel - "finger strainers"? Where does one get those? I had to throw out what I think you are talking about on the outlet of my wing tank - I foolishly sloshed with it in and the Kreem did a great job of sealing the whole thing water-tight. Live and learn.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: 06 October 2008 6:57 pm
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
You remove the fuel drain to measure it. The size refers to the part that screws into the bottom of your tank.
I don’t use any “filters” on my fuel supply they are too easy to block. I use finger strainers in the tanks ( no sloshing compound to come free) and a gascolator with a fuel screen.. I drip my gascolator before every flight and clean it every 25 hr. 50 hr. Would be ok. My father had a much larger engine in his C170B/LA-4 and they only got cleaned on the annual.
The other little reservoir is for the water pump/rotary valve shaft. If you haven’t noticed it going down then all is well. If the oil in it turns milky your RV shaft seal is toast. There are specific instructions for bleeding the injector pump and the RV shaft in the Rotax Manuals available from http://www.rotax-owner.com/ Check the tabs for engine manuals and download your manual in pdf format for your engine.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 7:22 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
Ok - showing my ignorance here...
The first picture is of the fuel drain for the wing tank which tends to leak and needs replacing. I got as far as http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/safair.php but the CAV-110, 160, 170, and 180 all look a lot like it. I know what an NPT thread is but where is the 1/4" or 1/8" measurement taken? Or the other measurements?
Second picture is my fuel filter. Any suggestions on a replacement? Advance Auto Parts or Manny Moe &Jack ok?
Third picture is the whats-it. Obviously a reservoir with some sort of lubricant which hasn't gone down since I have owned the plane. Obviously something I need to know about and service.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
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Try to keep it above the min. The idea of syringing it out every once in a while and replacing with new oil is a good one. Somewhere I read you should use the same oil as what is in your main reservoir but I know of at least one guy who uses a different 2 stroke oil that is easier to see in the small reservoir.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 11:54 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
A number of replies agree that it is the supply of oil to the "rotary valve". So it takes normal 2 stroke oil? Mine is closer to the MIN mark than the MAX so I was thinking I should top it off.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary.algate(at)sandvik.com
Sent: 06 October 2008 8:08 pm
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
Bob
I didn't see your original post but the (Whatsit) sounds like the oil reservoir for your Rotary Valve lubrication.
Is it the small plastic bottle mounted on the aluminum angle above your CDI units?
If so this is a circulating lube system supplying a flow of oil to the rotary valve. If everything is in good order you shouldn't see the level drop. Also the cap has a rubber seal in it wit a small slit cut to allow pressure relief. Make sure you never replace this with a full seal as it will cause you some real pain.
I used to just take out the oil from the reservoir with a syringe about every 50 hrs and replace it - probably overkill but for a couple of ounces of two stroke oil I figured it was cheap insurance.
regards
Gary
Gary Algate
Classic 4 jabiru 2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
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My wing tank is simply for reserve, so a blocked strainer is much better than letting objects go further into the system. I replaced the tubing from the wing tank with clear so I can see the flow when on turn the petcock. My procedure is that when the Reserve warning light comes on (1.5 gals / 45 mins remaining in the main tank) or before if I notice, I dump the 6 gallon wing tank into the main. Doing that with any more than 4 gallons in the main tank is a "bad idea" since it only holds 9.45 gals...
I found "finger strainers" on ACS and have ordered, thanks for the input Noel.
Bob Brennan - N717GB 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: 07 October 2008 12:18 pm
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
Mine came in the plane. I expect you can get them through Aviall , Leavens (in Canada), Wicks Or even ACS. The reason I mentioned my tanks are not sloshed is because it has happened that sloshing compound has separated in the tank and blocked finger strainers.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 11:50 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
Noel - "finger strainers"? Where does one get those? I had to throw out what I think you are talking about on the outlet of my wing tank - I foolishly sloshed with it in and the Kreem did a great job of sealing the whole thing water-tight. Live and learn.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: 06 October 2008 6:57 pm
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
You remove the fuel drain to measure it. The size refers to the part that screws into the bottom of your tank.
I don’t use any “filters” on my fuel supply they are too easy to block. I use finger strainers in the tanks ( no sloshing compound to come free) and a gascolator with a fuel screen.. I drip my gascolator before every flight and clean it every 25 hr. 50 hr. Would be ok. My father had a much larger engine in his C170B/LA-4 and they only got cleaned on the annual.
The other little reservoir is for the water pump/rotary valve shaft. If you haven’t noticed it going down then all is well. If the oil in it turns milky your RV shaft seal is toast. There are specific instructions for bleeding the injector pump and the RV shaft in the Rotax Manuals available from http://www.rotax-owner.com/ Check the tabs for engine manuals and download your manual in pdf format for your engine.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 7:22 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
Ok - showing my ignorance here...
The first picture is of the fuel drain for the wing tank which tends to leak and needs replacing. I got as far as http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/safair.php but the CAV-110, 160, 170, and 180 all look a lot like it. I know what an NPT thread is but where is the 1/4" or 1/8" measurement taken? Or the other measurements?
Second picture is my fuel filter. Any suggestions on a replacement? Advance Auto Parts or Manny Moe &Jack ok?
Third picture is the whats-it. Obviously a reservoir with some sort of lubricant which hasn't gone down since I have owned the plane. Obviously something I need to know about and service.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
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Noel says,"The reason I mentioned my tanks are not
| Quote: | sloshed is because it has happened that sloshing compound has separated in
the tank and blocked finger strainers.
|
Yes this happened - maybe two or three times out of a couple thousand
Kitfoxs. I is interesting what folks will do after an incident or two. One
of the threads after the Kreem separation and the clogging of the finger
strainers, was whether or not to remove the finger strainers - and some did
exactly that. I repeat, it is interesting what folks do after hearing of an
incident. For what it's worth, my old Model IV had Kreem, finger strainers,
filters down stream of the wing tanks, wing tank drains, and a gascollator.
The only place I found anything during a preflight was in the wing tanks,
and finger strainers at anual. One significant wing tank find at annual
after removing the finger strainers was a chunk of rubber, consistant with a
piece broken off a fuel line presumably from a 100ll pump - during pump
maintenance? Every drop of gas from the gas station went through a Mr.
Funnel. The chunk of rubber was exactly the size it would take to enter the
fuel line and lodge itself right at a connector. My new Model IV, exactly
the same minus the gascollator, most likely.
Lowell
---
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
|
|
I seem to recall thinking of removing the finger strainers until I
thought about what they provide, which is a very large area through
which fuel can flow without clogging the fuel line. Think of your
eavetroughs (sp?) as an example....you get some leaves at the
downspout and the thing is clogged. But put a big ol' dome of screen
over the top of the downspout, and the leaves still go there, but the
larger area lets the water get through in most cases. You still have
to clean it occasionally, but you never have to land your house in a
farmers' field because of clogged leaves....HUH? : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, temporarily grounded as one-half of ignition
system is in for a "medical checkup"
On Oct 7, 2008, at 6:10 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
[quote]
<lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>
Noel says,"The reason I mentioned my tanks are not
> sloshed is because it has happened that sloshing compound has
> separated in
> the tank and blocked finger strainers.
Yes this happened - maybe two or three times out of a couple
thousand Kitfoxs. I is interesting what folks will do after an
incident or two. One of the threads after the Kreem separation and
the clogging of the finger strainers, was whether or not to remove
the finger strainers - and some did exactly that. I repeat, it is
interesting what folks do after hearing of an incident. For what
it's worth, my old Model IV had Kreem, finger strainers, filters
down stream of the wing tanks, wing tank drains, and a gascollator.
The only place I found anything during a preflight was in the wing
tanks, and finger strainers at anual. One significant wing tank
find at annual after removing the finger strainers was a chunk of
rubber, consistant with a piece broken off a fuel line presumably
from a 100ll pump - during pump maintenance? Every drop of gas
from the gas station went through a Mr. Funnel. The chunk of
rubber was exactly the size it would take to enter the fuel line
and lodge itself right at a connector. My new Model IV, exactly
the same minus the gascollator, most likely.
Lowell
---
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:16 am Post subject: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
|
|
Lowell:
I expect it was a gasoline additive that caused the Kreeme to separate...
Which additive? With MOGAS there is no way to know. The recipe for gas, in
this area where we have around six months of winter and six months of hard
sledding, changes almost every week. Most of us may never know whatever it
was that caused the Kreeme to separate. Of course it is also possible that
the application of the Kreeme was faulty. BTW my tanks were not sloshed
when I bought the plane.
I am surprised that you found a piece of rubber in one of your tanks as you
use a Mr. Funnel. I use a regular funnel with a felt liner to remove water.
The finger strainers are there and my gascolator has a screen across the top
of it so any dirt will stay in the bowl. That screen is fine enough that
once a blue moon it does catch the occasional hair from the felt. I check
my carb bowls on regular intervals and have never found so much as a hair in
either of them.
Unfortunately, because you may be trapped into using higher concentrations
of ethanol in your fuel, the primary job of the gascolator separating water
from the fuel, will not be done by that piece of equipment. So I can
certainly see why carrying the weight and extra complexity of having a
gascolator is not warranted in that case. However, if you run 100LL, then
at least the gascolator will give you a low point to drip your fuel system.
As for fuel filters... some like 'em, some not. If you have them keep them
clean and change them at regular intervals. If you don't have them make
sure you do at least have screens in the fuel system.
As you can guess some of the comments above are not directed at you Lowell
but to other readers of the thread. I know you have enough experience to
make good decisions for your locale but I do enjoy the discussion.
Noel
--
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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