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dvanlanen
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 122
Location: Madison, WI
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 Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: Continuous Lacing |
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I was planning to use the continuous lacing technique suggested in The AeroElectric Connection, rather than tie wraps, to bundle wires between support points, (for example the wires I am routing through my wings for lighting), for the beneficial reasons that Bob provided. However, I just came across a paragraph in AC 43.13-1B, Section 8 – Wiring Installation Inspection Requirements – paragraph i., which states “Continuous lacing (spaced 6 inches apart) is not used, except in panels and junction boxes where this practice is optional”. This seems to conflict with the continuous lacing suggestion. Can anyone clarify for me?
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen [quote][b]
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Barry Chapman
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 11
Location: Lone Wolf, OK
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:34 am Post subject: Continuous Lacing |
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Dave,
Can't clarify, but I have some experience ripping out old wires in a C-172. DON"T LACE IT. If you ever (or someone after you) has to trace wires or try to remove an old system, it is pure hockey poo getting around that lacing. Very time consuming also. Just a thought. I plan on using tie wraps in the 172 and also my RV-9A when I get there.
Barry Chapman RV-9A Wings
From: Dave VanLanen <davevanlanen(at)sbcglobal.net>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:33:19 PM
Subject: Continuous Lacing
Continuous Lacing
I was planning to use the continuous lacing technique suggested in The AeroElectric Connection, rather than tie wraps, to bundle wires between support points, (for example the wires I am routing through my wings for lighting), for the beneficial reasons that Bob provided. However, I just came across a paragraph in AC 43.13-1B, Section 8 – Wiring Installation Inspection Requirements – paragraph i., which states “Continuous lacing (spaced 6 inches apart) is not used, except in panels and junction boxes where this practice is optional”. This seems to conflict with the continuous lacing suggestion. Can anyone clarify for me?
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen [quote]http://www.matronics.com/contribution=============
[b]
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_________________
Barry Chapman
RV-9A in progress
Tail complete, Wings here, Engine needs rebuilt |
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:23 am Post subject: Continuous Lacing |
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Good Morning Barry,
Just to prove there are always differences of opinion, may I say that I prefer proper lacing to Tywraps?
What I do is use Tywraps during the layout and build up process, then replace them with flat waxed lacing cord after the build up is complete. I do NOT use a continuous string as was taught fifty to sixty years ago and as is shown in Manual 18, but use individual ties where needed. I think such ties are at least as easy to remove as are Tywraps, and they do not have the large protrusions such as cutoff Tywraps have. I think they are even just a tiny bit lighter!<G>
Back when I attended Aviation Electrician Mate training, we were told to use continuous lacing cord because it supplied some support for the wire run. I think that thought is no longer in vogue. It probably went away with Manual 18!
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 10/25/2008 7:36:45 A.M. Central Daylight Time, bcrnfnp(at)sbcglobal.net writes:
| Quote: | Dave,
Can't clarify, but I have some experience ripping out old wires in a C-172. DON"T LACE IT. If you ever (or someone after you) has to trace wires or try to remove an old system, it is pure hockey poo getting around that lacing. Very time consuming also. Just a thought. I plan on using tie wraps in the 172 and also my RV-9A when I get there.
Barry Chapman RV-9A Wings
|
Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – [url=http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001] check it out![/url]
[quote][b]
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nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:33 am Post subject: Continuous Lacing |
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At 05:30 AM 10/25/2008 -0700, you wrote:
| Quote: | Dave,
Can't clarify, but I have some experience ripping out old wires in a
C-172. DON"T LACE IT. If you ever (or someone after you) has to trace
wires or try to remove an old system, it is pure hockey poo getting around
that lacing. Very time consuming also. Just a thought. I plan on using
tie wraps in the 172 and also my RV-9A when I get there.
Barry Chapman RV-9A Wings
From: Dave VanLanen <davevanlanen(at)sbcglobal.net>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:33:19 PM
Subject: Continuous Lacing
I was planning to use the continuous lacing technique suggested in The
AeroElectric Connection, rather than tie wraps, to bundle wires between
support points, (for example the wires I am routing through my wings for
lighting), for the beneficial reasons that Bob provided. However, I just
came across a paragraph in AC 43.13-1B, Section 8 – Wiring Installation
Inspection Requirements – paragraph i., which states “Continuous lacing
(spaced 6 inches apart) is not used, except in panels and junction boxes
where this practice is optional”. This seems to conflict with the
continuous lacing suggestion. Can anyone clarify for me?
|
Every methodology for the formation and support of
wire bundles is optional. There are lots of ingredients
that go into recipes for success. The end goal is to
keep bundles organized, supported so that they don't
chafe and/or flop around so severely that joints in
wiring are stressed. Finally, there's simply the sense
of craftsmanship.
Continuous lacing has but one advantage over all other
techniques. It probably goes on faster and uses less
string. It is also process-sensitive . . . it takes
perhaps more skill to make it look good.
The process was included in the 'Connection as one
of several options, not a recommendation.
Bob . . .
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Joemotis(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:49 am Post subject: Continuous Lacing |
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Hi Bob,
They were still teaching lacing when I went through Aircraft Electrician school at Fort Eustis VA. in 1971.
Joe Motis
Do not archive or lace or ty wrap
In a message dated 10/25/2008 6:26:02 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, BobsV35B(at)aol.com writes:
| Quote: | Good Morning Barry,
Just to prove there are always differences of opinion, may I say that I prefer proper lacing to Tywraps?
What I do is use Tywraps during the layout and build up process, then replace them with flat waxed lacing cord after the build up is complete. I do NOT use a continuous string as was taught fifty to sixty years ago and as is shown in Manual 18, but use individual ties where needed. I think such ties are at least as easy to remove as are Tywraps, and they do not have the large protrusions such as cutoff Tywraps have. I think they are even just a tiny bit lighter!<G>
Back when I attended Aviation Electrician Mate training, we were told to use continuous lacing cord because it supplied some support for the wire run. I think that thought is no longer in vogue. It probably went away with Manual 18!
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 10/25/2008 7:36:45 A.M. Central Daylight Time, bcrnfnp(at)sbcglobal.net writes:
| Quote: | Dave,
Can't clarify, but I have some experience ripping out old wires in a C-172. DON"T LACE IT. If you ever (or someone after you) has to trace wires or try to remove an old system, it is pure hockey poo getting around that lacing. Very time consuming also. Just a thought. I plan on using tie wraps in the 172 and also my RV-9A when I get there.
Barry Chapman RV-9A Wings
|
Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out!
| Quote: |
st href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – [url=http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001] check it out![/url]
[quote][b]
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Barry Chapman
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 11
Location: Lone Wolf, OK
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:30 am Post subject: Continuous Lacing |
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Bob, et al
I agree. Not hard core "don't do lacing". It has it's place.
Two things for lacing. 1) Neater 2) some weight savings.
I too was taught in the older days of the Air Force (70s) to do the continuous lacing. I feel lacing of any kind has its place in our wiring scheme. I was all for the continuous, until I had to pull out the old nav radio harness out of the 172. It had so many twists and turns under the floor that it was very difficult (not impossible) to follow the wires. As I didn't have a wiring schematic, I was at the mercy of following the wires down through the winding route that Cessna put the wires. It had continuous lacing. Having to pull the wire back and forth to get at the lacing was the pain I had. I eventually got it out though.
My suggestion is that if you are going to use continuos lacing, use it somewhere that every loop is accessible (for that inevitable day that you will need to get into the harness for whatever reason). If you can't access it after the area is covered I suggest not doing lacing or tie wraps. I suggest conduit.
I guess what I'm trying to get across is: think of the day that you or someone will have to acess that wire bundle. Think about how accessible it may or may not be at that time. Also think of the mechanic (you) when it comes time to repair the wiring.
Cheers,
Barry Chapman RV-9A
>From: "BobsV35B(at)aol.com" <BobsV35B(at)aol.com>
Good Morning Barry,
Just to prove there are always differences of opinion, may I say that I prefer proper lacing to Tywraps?
What I do is use Tywraps during the layout and build up process, then replace them with flat waxed lacing cord after the build up is complete. I do NOT use a continuous string as was taught fifty to sixty years ago and as is shown in Manual 18, but use individual ties where needed. I think such ties are at least as easy to remove as are Tywraps, and they do not have the large protrusions such as cutoff Tywraps have. I think they are even just a tiny bit lighter!<G>
Back when I attended Aviation Electrician Mate training, we were told to use continuous lacing cord because it supplied some support for the wire run. I think that thought is no longer in vogue. It probably went away with Manual 18!
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
_________________
Barry Chapman
RV-9A in progress
Tail complete, Wings here, Engine needs rebuilt |
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