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purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
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 Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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WHY??
[quote] ---
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Iberplanes
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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because the Holland accident, the Zenair Europe representative sent and email message to the "Yahoo AVIADOR group" saying that the NL-2008-03 also applies to Spain. What it is strange here is that this type of notifications should have come from the DGAC and not from the distributor.
This is the original message in spanish:
Hola a todos
Como representante de Zenair Europe, se comunica que hay una directiva de obligado cumplimiento (NL-2008-003) por la que todos los aviones CH-601 XL tienen que estar en tierra ,en tanto no se resuelva la investigacion de un accidente ocurrido en Septiembre.
Desde Zenair Europe se ha mandado una directiva de correccion (ZE-2008-01),para todos los clientes y usuarios de 601 XL.
Esperando ser de ayuda ,recibir un afectuoso saludo
2008/11/2 Southern Reflections <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net (purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net)>
[quote] WHY??
[quote] ---
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_________________
Alberto Martin
601 XL - Jabiru 3300
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain |
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z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:33 am Post subject: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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The Zenair Europe page has links to a number of related items:
http://www.zenairulm.com/News/index_files/Page505.htm
According to one item linked from that page:
"The evolving situation is unfortunately very complex: Because of
multi-lateral agreements between many Civil Aviation Authorities (CAA) in
Europe, when one agency (like the Netherlands’) issues an “emergency
airworthiness directive”, other agencies are tempted to quickly follow suit -
especially when additional information from the original decision makers of
the issuing agency are not readily available.
In the last 24 hours, we have been informed (by Zodiac owners) of two other
countries that have followed the Dutch action, grounding the Zenair CH 601 XL
until further notice: Germany and Sweden. These actions were not taken based
on any new information on the Zodiac design. They were strictly based of the
Dutch AD (NL-2008-003). "
It sounds from this (and other links on the site), that when one European
country knee-jerks, everybody knee-jerks!
==============================================
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
=================================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Instrument Rated Pilot
General Radio Telephone Certificate
=================================================
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Martin Pohl
Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 118
Location: CH-8645 Jona SG, Switzerland
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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The "problem" in Europe is, that normally one CAA issues a "type certificate" for an aircraft type, whereas other CAAs base their "certificate" on this first certificate.
As I understand, the XL certificate was first issued in Germany. Therefore I guess that a major part of the investigation will most probably be performed by the german CAA.
Martin
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_________________
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
http://www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL/Main.html |
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jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:11 am Post subject: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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The real problem is that anyone who builds and flies an experimental airplane must be mentally retarded to begin with and therefore the State (the EU Nanny State) must act to protect them from themselves. There are so few of them around and they are not politically significant; so stomping on all of them at once is no big deal.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
--
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Brady
Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 182
Location: Poulsbo, WA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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Have I noticed an interesting trend; or am I wrong?
Are most of these accidents are happening overseas?
I haven't been following this very closely but it seems to me that the Europeans are having more problems with these planes than we are here.
Does that seem strange to anyone else?
or am I just way off the mark?
How many planes have gone down here in the US?
How many have gone down else where?
How many are flying here?
How many are flying in each of those countries?
I'm just curious.
| | - The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List |
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_________________
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com |
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skyguynca
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 128
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:31 am Post subject: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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NO, there have been 8 in the US and if you search the archives you will see
tons of emotional replies and speculations.
As I have stated in every reply, JUST WAIT AND LET THE INVESTIGATORS DO
THEIR JOBS.
David M.
--
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Iberplanes
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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"that when one European country knee-jerks, everybody knee-jerks!"
With all due respect that why this called "EUROPEAN UNION"
2008/11/2 Jim Belcher <z601(at)anemicaardvark.com (z601(at)anemicaardvark.com)>
| Quote: | --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Jim Belcher <z601(at)anemicaardvark.com (z601(at)anemicaardvark.com)>
The Zenair Europe page has links to a number of related items:
http://www.zenairulm.com/News/index_files/Page505.htm
According to one item linked from that page:
"The evolving situation is unfortunately very complex: Because of
multi-lateral agreements between many Civil Aviation Authorities (CAA) in
Europe, when one agency (like the Netherlands') issues an "emergency
airworthiness directive", other agencies are tempted to quickly follow suit -
especially when additional information from the original decision makers of
the issuing agency are not readily available.
In the last 24 hours, we have been informed (by Zodiac owners) of two other
countries that have followed the Dutch action, grounding the Zenair CH 601 XL
until further notice: Germany and Sweden. These actions were not taken based
on any new information on the Zodiac design. They were strictly based of the
Dutch AD (NL-2008-003). "
It sounds from this (and other links on the site), that when one European
country knee-jerks, everybody knee-jerks!
==============================================
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
=================================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Instrument Rated Pilot
General Radio Telephone Certificate
=================================================
|
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List |
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_________________
Alberto Martin
601 XL - Jabiru 3300
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain |
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Iberplanes
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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Brady,
ZBAG has 7 XL cases on its DB, they are all spread among countries, and for your information USA has 3 of the 7 accidents.
bye.
2008/11/2 Brady <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com (brady(at)magnificentmachine.com)>
| Quote: | --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Brady" <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com (brady(at)magnificentmachine.com)>
Have I noticed an interesting trend; or am I wrong?
Are most of these accidents are happening overseas?
I haven't been following this very closely but it seems to me that the Europeans are having more problems with these planes than we are here.
Does that seem strange to anyone else?
or am I just way off the mark?
How many planes have gone down here in the US?
How many have gone down else where?
How many are flying here?
How many are flying in each of those countries?
I'm just curious.
--------
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com
Read this topic online here:
[url=http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 11799#211799]http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 11799#211799[/url]
|
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List |
|
_________________
Alberto Martin
601 XL - Jabiru 3300
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain |
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bryanmmartin
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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There are 213 601XLs listed in the FAA database, they might not all be completed and flying though. There may be others that are not listed with that particular model designation since, in the US, a homebuilt can be given literally any model designation the builder chooses.
There have been four accidents in the US involving wing failure:
2/8/2006, Oakdale, CA , Hooker Zodiac 601XL, N105RH, Fatal(2), NTSB Identification: LAX06LA105
11/4/2006, Yuba City, CA , Aircraft Mfg & Dev. Co. (AMD) CH601XL SLSA, N158MD, Fatal(2), NTSB Identification: LAX07FA026
5/2/2007, Canadian, TX. Walker Zenith Zodiac 601 XL, N10028, Fatal(1), NTSB Identification: DFW07LA102
4/7/2008, Polk City, FL, Czech Aircraft Works SPOL SRO CH 601 XL RTF, N357DT, Fatal(1), NTSB Identification: NYC08FA158
N10028 broke up in flight soon after the sport pilot owner took off with low ceilings and poor visibility with a thunderstorm in the vicinity. The other three accidents don't seem to have any such obvious contributing factors. One was closed out as unexplained structural failure, two are still under investigation. Of the three unexplained accidents, one was a homebuilt, one was an factory built AMD LSA and the other was a Czech built ELSA.
Go to http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp and plug in the NTSB ID number for details.
There was a recent accident in France of an unauthorized Polish copy of a Zenith 601XL. The crew survived that one with the help of a ballistic parachute. The cause of that one was determined by government investigators as wing failure due to pilot maneuvers exceeding the aircraft structural limits.
There was a crash near Barcelona Spain and the most recent one in the Netherlands.
On Nov 2, 2008, at 2:22 PM, Iberplanes IGL wrote:
[quote]Brady,
ZBAG has 7 XL cases on its DB, they are all spread among countries, and for your information USA has 3 of the 7 accidents.
bye.
2008/11/2 Brady <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com (brady(at)magnificentmachine.com)>
[quote] [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List |
|
_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive. |
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Iberplanes
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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you forgot.....
1) XL down in Barcelona, 2 death.
2) XL down in Brazil, 2 death
3) XL down in Australia, 2 death
4I) XL down in Holland, 2 death....
all this year
2008/11/2 Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net (bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net)>
| Quote: | There are 213 601XLs listed in the FAA database, they might not all be completed and flying though. There may be others that are not listed with that particular model designation since, in the US, a homebuilt can be given literally any model designation the builder chooses.
There have been four accidents in the US involving wing failure:
2/8/2006, Oakdale, CA , Hooker Zodiac 601XL, N105RH, Fatal(2), NTSB Identification: LAX06LA105
11/4/2006, Yuba City, CA , Aircraft Mfg & Dev. Co. (AMD) CH601XL SLSA, N158MD, Fatal(2), NTSB Identification: LAX07FA026
5/2/2007, Canadian, TX. Walker Zenith Zodiac 601 XL, N10028, Fatal(1), NTSB Identification: DFW07LA102
4/7/2008, Polk City, FL, Czech Aircraft Works SPOL SRO CH 601 XL RTF, N357DT, Fatal(1), NTSB Identification: NYC08FA158
N10028 broke up in flight soon after the sport pilot owner took off with low ceilings and poor visibility with a thunderstorm in the vicinity. The other three accidents don't seem to have any such obvious contributing factors. One was closed out as unexplained structural failure, two are still under investigation. Of the three unexplained accidents, one was a homebuilt, one was an factory built AMD LSA and the other was a Czech built ELSA.
Go to http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp and plug in the NTSB ID number for details.
There was a recent accident in France of an unauthorized Polish copy of a Zenith 601XL. The crew survived that one with the help of a ballistic parachute. The cause of that one was determined by government investigators as wing failure due to pilot maneuvers exceeding the aircraft structural limits.
There was a crash near Barcelona Spain and the most recent one in the Netherlands.
On Nov 2, 2008, at 2:22 PM, Iberplanes IGL wrote:
| Quote: | Brady,
ZBAG has 7 XL cases on its DB, they are all spread among countries, and for your information USA has 3 of the 7 accidents.
bye.
2008/11/2 Brady <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com (brady(at)magnificentmachine.com)>
| Quote: | --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Brady" <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com (brady(at)magnificentmachine.com)>
Have I noticed an interesting trend; or am I wrong?
Are most of these accidents are happening overseas?
I haven't been following this very closely but it seems to me that the Europeans are having more problems with these planes than we are here.
Does that seem strange to anyone else?
or am I just way off the mark?
How many planes have gone down here in the US?
How many have gone down else where?
How many are flying here?
How many are flying in each of those countries?
I'm just curious.
|
|
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
|
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List |
|
_________________
Alberto Martin
601 XL - Jabiru 3300
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain |
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greg(at)gas-n-go.com.au
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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One thing we do know is that the accident in Australia is not as a result on structural failure and it is suspected that pilot incapacitation may be the cause.
The aircraft impacted the ground intact and under power.
Regards,
Greg
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Iberplanes IGL
Sent: Monday, 3 November 2008 9:22 AM
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain
you forgot.....
1) XL down in Barcelona, 2 death.
2) XL down in Brazil, 2 death
3) XL down in Australia, 2 death
4I) XL down in Holland, 2 death....
all this year
2008/11/2 Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net (bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net)>
There are 213 601XLs listed in the FAA database, they might not all be completed and flying though. There may be others that are not listed with that particular model designation since, in the US, a homebuilt can be given literally any model designation the builder chooses.
There have been four accidents in the US involving wing failure:
2/8/2006, Oakdale, CA , Hooker Zodiac 601XL, N105RH, Fatal(2), NTSB Identification: LAX06LA105
11/4/2006, Yuba City, CA , Aircraft Mfg & Dev. Co. (AMD) CH601XL SLSA, N158MD, Fatal(2), NTSB Identification: LAX07FA026
5/2/2007, Canadian, TX. Walker Zenith Zodiac 601 XL, N10028, Fatal(1), NTSB Identification: DFW07LA102
4/7/2008, Polk City, FL, Czech Aircraft Works SPOL SRO CH 601 XL RTF, N357DT, Fatal(1), NTSB Identification: NYC08FA158
N10028 broke up in flight soon after the sport pilot owner took off with low ceilings and poor visibility with a thunderstorm in the vicinity. The other three accidents don't seem to have any such obvious contributing factors. One was closed out as unexplained structural failure, two are still under investigation. Of the three unexplained accidents, one was a homebuilt, one was an factory built AMD LSA and the other was a Czech built ELSA.
Go to http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp and plug in the NTSB ID number for details.
There was a recent accident in France of an unauthorized Polish copy of a Zenith 601XL. The crew survived that one with the help of a ballistic parachute. The cause of that one was determined by government investigators as wing failure due to pilot maneuvers exceeding the aircraft structural limits.
There was a crash near Barcelona Spain and the most recent one in the Netherlands.
On Nov 2, 2008, at 2:22 PM, Iberplanes IGL wrote:
Brady,
ZBAG has 7 XL cases on its DB, they are all spread among countries, and for your information USA has 3 of the 7 accidents.
bye.
2008/11/2 Brady <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com (brady(at)magnificentmachine.com)>
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Brady" <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com (brady(at)magnificentmachine.com)>
Have I noticed an interesting trend; or am I wrong?
Are most of these accidents are happening overseas?
I haven't been following this very closely but it seems to me that the Europeans are having more problems with these planes than we are here.
Does that seem strange to anyone else?
or am I just way off the mark?
How many planes have gone down here in the US?
How many have gone down else where?
How many are flying here?
How many are flying in each of those countries?
I'm just curious.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300 0123456789012345
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List |
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craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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“There are 213 601XLs listed in the FAA database”
There is no real way of knowing exactly how many XLs are in the FAA database. I can build an XL from scratch or kit and register it as a 601 (no XL) or “magic carpet special”. In fact someone recommended doing just this a while ago as a way of preventing state sales tax offices from accurately valuing the plane.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Martin
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:57 PM
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain
There are 213 601XLs listed in the FAA database, they might not all be completed and flying though. There may be others that are not listed with that particular model designation since, in the US, a homebuilt can be given literally any model designation the builder chooses.
There have been four accidents in the US involving wing failure:
2/8/2006, Oakdale, CA , Hooker Zodiac 601XL, N105RH, Fatal(2), NTSB Identification: LAX06LA105
11/4/2006, Yuba City, CA , Aircraft Mfg & Dev. Co. (AMD) CH601XL SLSA, N158MD, Fatal(2), NTSB Identification: LAX07FA026
5/2/2007, Canadian, TX. Walker Zenith Zodiac 601 XL, N10028, Fatal(1), NTSB Identification: DFW07LA102
4/7/2008, Polk City, FL, Czech Aircraft Works SPOL SRO CH 601 XL RTF, N357DT, Fatal(1), NTSB Identification: NYC08FA158
N10028 broke up in flight soon after the sport pilot owner took off with low ceilings and poor visibility with a thunderstorm in the vicinity. The other three accidents don't seem to have any such obvious contributing factors. One was closed out as unexplained structural failure, two are still under investigation. Of the three unexplained accidents, one was a homebuilt, one was an factory built AMD LSA and the other was a Czech built ELSA.
Go to http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp and plug in the NTSB ID number for details.
There was a recent accident in France of an unauthorized Polish copy of a Zenith 601XL. The crew survived that one with the help of a ballistic parachute. The cause of that one was determined by government investigators as wing failure due to pilot maneuvers exceeding the aircraft structural limits.
There was a crash near Barcelona Spain and the most recent one in the Netherlands.
On Nov 2, 2008, at 2:22 PM, Iberplanes IGL wrote:
Brady,
ZBAG has 7 XL cases on its DB, they are all spread among countries, and for your information USA has 3 of the 7 accidents.
bye.
2008/11/2 Brady <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com (brady(at)magnificentmachine.com)>
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Brady" <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com (brady(at)magnificentmachine.com)>
Have I noticed an interesting trend; or am I wrong?
Are most of these accidents are happening overseas?
I haven't been following this very closely but it seems to me that the Europeans are having more problems with these planes than we are here.
Does that seem strange to anyone else?
or am I just way off the mark?
How many planes have gone down here in the US?
How many have gone down else where?
How many are flying here?
How many are flying in each of those countries?
I'm just curious.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
01234567890123
[quote][b]
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craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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Also some sort of bird-strike or canopy mishap was suspected since pieces of canopy were found a great distance (one or two miles?) from the water impact.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Cox, Gas-n-Go Automotive Pty Ltd
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:39 PM
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain
One thing we do know is that the accident in Australia is not as a result on structural failure and it is suspected that pilot incapacitation may be the cause.
The aircraft impacted the ground intact and under power.
Regards,
Greg
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Iberplanes IGL
Sent: Monday, 3 November 2008 9:22 AM
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain
you forgot.....
1) XL down in Barcelona, 2 death.
2) XL down in Brazil, 2 death
3) XL down in Australia, 2 death
4I) XL down in Holland, 2 death....
all this year
2008/11/2 Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net (bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net)>
There are 213 601XLs listed in the FAA database, they might not all be completed and flying though. There may be others that are not listed with that particular model designation since, in the US, a homebuilt can be given literally any model designation the builder chooses.
There have been four accidents in the US involving wing failure:
2/8/2006, Oakdale, CA , Hooker Zodiac 601XL, N105RH, Fatal(2), NTSB Identification: LAX06LA105
11/4/2006, Yuba City, CA , Aircraft Mfg & Dev. Co. (AMD) CH601XL SLSA, N158MD, Fatal(2), NTSB Identification: LAX07FA026
5/2/2007, Canadian, TX. Walker Zenith Zodiac 601 XL, N10028, Fatal(1), NTSB Identification: DFW07LA102
4/7/2008, Polk City, FL, Czech Aircraft Works SPOL SRO CH 601 XL RTF, N357DT, Fatal(1), NTSB Identification: NYC08FA158
N10028 broke up in flight soon after the sport pilot owner took off with low ceilings and poor visibility with a thunderstorm in the vicinity. The other three accidents don't seem to have any such obvious contributing factors. One was closed out as unexplained structural failure, two are still under investigation. Of the three unexplained accidents, one was a homebuilt, one was an factory built AMD LSA and the other was a Czech built ELSA.
Go to http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp and plug in the NTSB ID number for details.
There was a recent accident in France of an unauthorized Polish copy of a Zenith 601XL. The crew survived that one with the help of a ballistic parachute. The cause of that one was determined by government investigators as wing failure due to pilot maneuvers exceeding the aircraft structural limits.
There was a crash near Barcelona Spain and the most recent one in the Netherlands.
On Nov 2, 2008, at 2:22 PM, Iberplanes IGL wrote:
Brady,
ZBAG has 7 XL cases on its DB, they are all spread among countries, and for your information USA has 3 of the 7 accidents.
bye.
2008/11/2 Brady <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com (brady(at)magnificentmachine.com)>
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Brady" <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com (brady(at)magnificentmachine.com)>
Have I noticed an interesting trend; or am I wrong?
Are most of these accidents are happening overseas?
I haven't been following this very closely but it seems to me that the Europeans are having more problems with these planes than we are here.
Does that seem strange to anyone else?
or am I just way off the mark?
How many planes have gone down here in the US?
How many have gone down else where?
How many are flying here?
How many are flying in each of those countries?
I'm just curious.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List http://forums.matronics.com |
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z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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On Sunday 02 November 2008 16:41, Craig Payne wrote:
| Quote: | There is no real way of knowing exactly how many XLs are in the FAA
database. I can build an XL from scratch or kit and register it as a 601
(no XL) or "magic carpet special". In fact someone recommended doing just
this a while ago as a way of preventing state sales tax offices from
accurately valuing the plane.
|
A good point, which works both for and against us. Experimental 601XL
derivatives can be listed as anything you choose, while the factory built XLs
will show up as XLs.
Because the experimentals can be listed by your choice of name, and there can
be wide variations in how an experimental aircraft is built, it is hard to
draw too many conclusions. But it also makes it hard to ground all
experimentals which may be of the same general type, in the U.S.
I'm beginning to think I'll find the simplest, cheapest experimental I can
find, even if nobody has built one in years, and list my aircraft under that
type.
--
==============================================
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
=================================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Instrument Rated Pilot
General Radio Telephone Certificate
=================================================
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Brady
Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 182
Location: Poulsbo, WA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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OK;
I seemed to have touched a few nerves.
First Let me apologize and say that I was not insinuating anything and that I was just asking questions.
I am not trying to start anything.
I don't have any theories.
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_________________
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com |
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Brady
Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 182
Location: Poulsbo, WA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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I'm beginning to think I'll find the simplest, cheapest experimental I can
find, even if nobody has built one in years, and list my aircraft under that
type.
--
==============================================
I like "The Magic Carpet Special"
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Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com |
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Gig Giacona
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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| bryanmmartin wrote: |
5/2/2007, Canadian, TX. Walker Zenith Zodiac 601 XL, N10028, Fatal(1), NTSB Identification: DFW07LA102
|
And this one departed "...from the airport in deteriorating weather conditions that consisted of low ceilings, reduced visibility, heavy rain, and lightning."
and the findings were clear.
Occurrence #1: IN FLIGHT ENCOUNTER WITH WEATHER
Phase of Operation: MANEUVERING
Findings
1. (F) WEATHER CONDITION - LOW CEILING
2. (C) PREFLIGHT PLANNING/PREPARATION - POOR - PILOT IN COMMAND
3. (F) WEATHER CONDITION - RAIN
----------
Occurrence #2: AIRFRAME/COMPONENT/SYSTEM FAILURE/MALFUNCTION
Phase of Operation: MANEUVERING
Findings
4. (C) WING - SEPARATION
5. (C) DESIGN STRESS LIMITS OF AIRCRAFT - EXCEEDED - PILOT IN COMMAND
----------
Occurrence #3: LOSS OF CONTROL - IN FLIGHT
Phase of Operation: DESCENT - UNCONTROLLED
----------
Occurrence #4: IN FLIGHT COLLISION WITH TERRAIN/WATER
Phase of Operation: DESCENT - UNCONTROLLED
Findings Legend: (C) = Cause, (F) = Factor
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_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR |
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Terry Phillips
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
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Greg
I am aware of two recent accidents in Australia. One into the ocean off the
Gold Coast, and a later one on land. I presume that you are referring to
the second accident, since you say that it "impacted the ground." While I
have seen news reports about the Gold Coast accident, I cannot recall
whether there have yet been any government reports about it. Do you know of
any "official" reports?
The US NTSB issues a preliminary report, followed by a factual report, and
a probable cause report for each accident. I do not know much about how
foreign governments handle aviation accidents.
What reports are issued by the Australian authorities? Are those reports
available on line? If not, how does one obtain a report? What is the name
of the agency that investigates accidents and issues the reports? Do they
have a web site? About how long does it take for them to issue a report?
Thanks for letting me how your operate down there.
Terry
At 09:39 AM 11/3/2008 +1100, you wrote:
| Quote: | One thing we do know is that the accident in Australia is not as a result
on structural failure and it is suspected that pilot incapacitation may be
the cause.
The aircraft impacted the ground intact and under power.
Regards,
Greg
|
Terry Phillips ZBAGer
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
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_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings. |
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