Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Flaperon Damage.

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

815TL

Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 62

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:16 am Post subject: Flaperon Damage.

Hey all, I have a little damage that needs to be fixed, I just wanted to check and see if this is the appropriate way.



I made a set of wing covers that come down over the flaperons, and around the corners pretty tight, apparently too tight.  We have had several really bad wind storms, with 45+ MPH winds in the past few weeks.  Apparently, even though I had it strapped down well, it pulled too hard on the flapperon.



Let me see if I can describe the damage without pictures.  It is on the end of the flapperon, closest to the fuselage.  The end cap is basically just epoxy, filling in over the foam.  The epoxy broke loose, and the sheet metal apparently bent up so that the rivet through the sheet metal, and into the rod, rounded out the hole.  Argh...  that is not the best explanation.



So basically, it needs a new epoxy end cap and  re-riveted.  The A&P at the field is going to fix it like this.  He is going to drill out the old rivet, put a sheet metal patch over the rounded out hole, and rivet it in front and back, then put a new rivet through the original hole.



Sounds reasonable to me, just wanted to verify that it sounded like a good plan to all of the builders, and A&Ps out there.



Andrew

815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582 C

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Flaperon Damage.

815TL wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  So basically, it needs a new epoxy end cap and re-riveted. The A&P at the field is going to fix it like this. He is going to drill out the old rivet, put a sheet metal patch over the rounded out hole, and rivet it in front and back, then put a new rivet through the original hole. 	




Andrew, I can't picture the damage from the description.  I am only familiar with the Model 4.  It has a "metal rib that the Flaperon horn tube is riveted to on the inboard end of the flaperon.  This gives the strength to secure the flaperon to the flaperon horn.



Is there some more substantial material other than epoxy that secures the flaperon horn to the flaperon?  I guess a model II owner will chime in.  Anyhow, my 2 cents is that the repair needs to be substantial enough to give some strength there if that is also the attachment for the flaperon horn.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

815TL

Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 62

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Flaperon Damage.

I will try to get some pictures of it tomorrow.  My description sucks at best.  



It is not the actual horn itself, but the sheet metal that the flapperon is made from.  The rivet goes down through the sheet metal, and through the  tube.  That is still intact, but it elongated the hole in the sheet metal.



I really can't think of words to explain it better without pictures.  Let me see if I can find anything that I can use as an example.



Andrew

815TL

Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 62

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Flaperon Damage.

OK, Here are some pictures.  They say more that I could ever say in a post.  



The last picure is just of the plane, with the new stripe I put on.  Just vynal tape, but it looks good I think.



Andrew

PICT0014.JPG

Description:

Filesize:

768.39 KB

Viewed:

10556 Time(s)

PICT0011.JPG

Description:

Filesize:

710.14 KB

Viewed:

10556 Time(s)

PICT0012.JPG

Description:

Filesize:

686.61 KB

Viewed:

10556 Time(s)

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:27 am Post subject: Flaperon Damage.

Hi Andrew-

Here's what the later Kitfox (these are model IV) flaperons look like  

in that area. Maybe you could have your repairman/yourself build a  

similar "end rib" like this and pop rivet it into the end of the  

flaperon. It would require removing some of the existing pop rivets,  

and taking the bearing horn off temporarily, but that's no big deal.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 614 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying





On Mar 16, 2009, at 1:00 PM, 815TL wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 OK, Here are some pictures.  They say more that I could ever say in  

 a post.  



 The last picure is just of the plane, with the new stripe I put  

 on.  Just vynal tape, but it looks good I think.



 Andrew

100_0523.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

398.84 KB

Viewed:

10538 Time(s)

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Flaperon Damage.

little 5 minute epoxy on the foam and a quick aluminum patch (like you had described) and your back in the air in under an hour.  You could even run the aluminum double inside the flaperon so all you would see is the rivet heads.



You can mix epoxy with micro balloons to make a nice fillet and you would never know on the end cap.

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:05 pm Post subject: Flaperon Damage.

Andrew,



Now that I have seen the pictures, your discription was pretty good.



This is what I would do:



I would remove all the foam and "Micro".  (Micro is Lancairs name for epoxy 

mixed with microballoons to form a very light weight "Bondo" like filler.



Drill out the rivet and scuff sand the surface of the flaperon.  Then 

fabricate the aluminum doubler and using a structural adhesive between the 

doubler and the flaperon Skin, rivet it in place using several 3/32 rivets 

around the periphery.  Then re-rivet the doubler / skin to the spar.



Essentially, I think that is what your A&P wants to do.



When that is done, to close the end, bond some new foam into the inboard end 

with epoxy and micro it to shape. - again Lancair vernacular.



Lowell

---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:16 pm Post subject: Flaperon Damage.

Speaking of flaperon damage, I was putting my plane away last week,  

and got "just a bit outside" the 40-foot opening with my 29-foot  

plane...DUH!...and the ragged edge of the bi-fold hangar door sliced  

into the trailing edge of the flaperon, in the area between the two  

outer bearings. I'm going to have to repair that metal damage, which  

is about 1- 1/2" into the flap going forward of the trailing edge.  

I'm thinking this is a perfect opportunity to rig up a trim tab onto  

the flaperon to overcome the need to hold a little right aileron in  

order to fly with wings level. The trim tab could become the repair  

patch on, say, the top of the flaperon, and another patch could be  

added on the bottom, or vise versa. Any thoughts...comments? (besides  

being a dumb s- - -, that is...I already got that covered) : )

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 614 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:37 pm Post subject: Flaperon Damage.

Comments - yes, wouldn't you correct a "heavy wing" problem with a wash

adjustment? Certainly not a flaperon trim tab, one dumb-A to another. I also

have that problem but learned how to fix it in Repairman's school (wash-in

the heavy wing or wash-out the light wing), and it's on my just-do-it list

right after installing the engine monitoring system.



Bob Brennan - N717GB

ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa 



--

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:59 pm Post subject: Flaperon Damage.

Oops, forgot all about that trick, Bob. The heavy wing thing seems to  

have just started recently, and I'm going to give it a chance to  

prove to me that it's something that isn't just a fluke before I  

tackle it. Thanks for the suggestion, Bob...and for recognition of my  

status as a dumb-A....I always knew I'd fit in somewhere!

It's 60 degrees F, clear and sunny...I'm goin' flying.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 614 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying





On Mar 16, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:



[quote] 

 <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>



 Comments - yes, wouldn't you correct a "heavy wing" problem with a  

 wash

 adjustment? Certainly not a flaperon trim tab, one dumb-A to  

 another. I also

 have that problem but learned how to fix it in Repairman's school  

 (wash-in

 the heavy wing or wash-out the light wing), and it's on my just-do- 

 it list

 right after installing the engine monitoring system.



 Bob Brennan - N717GB

 ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger

 Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

 Wrightsville Pa



 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: Flaperon Damage.

hell... a little gorrilla tape and your good to go. If that does not work out for you, just know that I will hand out a darwin award in your honor.



sorry couldnt help it 



snakeman

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:08 pm Post subject: Flaperon Damage.

The duct tape is already in place....gorilla would have pulled the  

aluminum skin off the foam inner, if I had to remove it. : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 615.2 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying

do not archive



On Mar 16, 2009, at 5:36 PM, akflyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 hell... a little gorrilla tape and your good to go. If that does  

 not work out for you, just know that I will hand out a darwin award  

 in your honor.



 sorry couldnt help it



 snakeman



 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry aka SNAKE

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 582 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1260

 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009



 hander outer of humorless darwin awards





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 34896#234896

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Flaperon Damage.

Andrew, after seeing the pictures I agree your A&P has the fix figured out.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

815TL

Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 62

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:16 am Post subject: Re: Flaperon Damage.

Thank you all for the advice.  It sounds like the A&P at the field is on the right track.  Hopefully he can get it done during the week, so I can fly on the weekend, weather permitting.



Andrew

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum