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jim(at)CombsFive.Com
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 Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: Spins |
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Odd question:IF anyone has spun a -10, what is the procedure to recover?(1) Neutral stick and opposite rudder to stop spin?(2) Power - Reduce(3) Smooth elevator to level flight(4) Clean Shorts!I don't plan on doing that but wold like to knowThanks, Jim CombsN312F - Flying (Forward not round and round!) [quote][b]
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject: Spins |
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I believe you have the order wrong. and I don't intend to spin the 10 either.
power idle, neutral ailerons, opposite rudder, when (if) the spin stops, forward stick to break the stall and recover gently from the dive.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 5:30 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Spins
Odd question:
IF anyone has spun a -10, what is the procedure to recover?
(1) Neutral stick and opposite rudder to stop spin?
(2) Power - Reduce
(3) Smooth elevator to level flight
(4) Clean Shorts!
I don't plan on doing that but wold like to know
Thanks, Jim Combs
N312F - Flying (Forward not round and round!)
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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me(at)chadcarlson.com
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:04 pm Post subject: Spins |
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Hi Jim,
I don’t think it’s THAT odd a question. I asked a very similar question about this time last year. Please see the below link for details.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179918
On a related note, I am planning to attend spin training next month (weather permitting) at a local, FAA-sanctioned course. We’ll be spinning a C-172, wearing parachutes, etc. I must admit I am a little nervous, but I really want to spin for the experience of knowing what it feels and looks like first-hand.
Kind Regards,
Chad E. Carlson
www.chadcarlson.com
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 8:30 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Spins
Odd question:
IF anyone has spun a -10, what is the procedure to recover?
(1) Neutral stick and opposite rudder to stop spin?
(2) Power - Reduce
(3) Smooth elevator to level flight
(4) Clean Shorts!
I don't plan on doing that but wold like to know
Thanks, Jim Combs
N312F - Flying (Forward not round and round!) | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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coop85(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:43 pm Post subject: Spins |
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Chad,
Good on you for taking the spin training. Kind of an interesting choice of airplanes, but they do spin. I wish spin training was mandatory, but that's just me and not meant to start a debate. I also would recommend some upset training or a little acro training as it builds a tremendous amount of confidence in yourself and will let you react quicker and more correctly when the world suddenly doesn't look quite right unexpectedly. Besides that it's just a ton of fun!
Marcus
do not archive
--- On Tue, 4/7/09, Chad E. Carlson <me(at)chadcarlson.com> wrote:
| Quote: | From: Chad E. Carlson <me(at)chadcarlson.com>
Subject: RE: Spins
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 10:03 PM
Hi Jim,
I don’t think it’s THAT odd a question. I asked a very similar question about this time last year. Please see the below link for details.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179918
On a related note, I am planning to attend spin training next month (weather permitting) at a local, FAA-sanctioned course. We’ll be spinning a C-172, wearing parachutes, etc. I must admit I am a little nervous, but I really want to spin for the experience of knowing what it feels and looks like first-hand.
Kind Regards,
Chad E. Carlson
www.chadcarlson.com
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 8:30 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Spins
Odd question:
IF anyone has spun a -10, what is the procedure to recover?
(1) Neutral stick and opposite rudder to stop spin?
(2) Power - Reduce
(3) Smooth elevator to level flight
(4) Clean Shorts!
I don't plan on doing that but wold like to know
Thanks, Jim Combs
N312F - Flying (Forward not round and round!)
| Quote: |
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
|
0123456789
0
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[quote][b]
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jim(at)CombsFive.Com
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:10 pm Post subject: Spins |
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Thanks, for the responsesI don't intend to spin the -10 but will at some point get some spins in something else.Jim CDo Not ArchiveI believe you have the order wrong. and I don't intend to spin the 10either.power idle, neutral ailerons, opposite rudder, when (if) the spin stops,forward stick to break the stall and recover gently from the dive. _____From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Ofjim(at)CombsFive.ComSent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 5:30 PMTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.comSubject: SpinsOdd question:IF anyone has spun a -10, what is the procedure to recover?(1) Neutral stick and opposite rudder to stop spin?(2) Power - Reduce(3) Smooth elevator to level flight(4) Clean Shorts!I don't plan on doing that but wold like to knowThanks, Jim CombsN312F - Flying (Forward not round and round!) [quote][b]
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Spins |
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I haven't spun a -10 either. All spins start with a wing stall. So for incipient spins (spin entries), immediate stick forward, plus opposite rudder (resist the temptation to roll level with ailerons) should keep you from entering a fully developed spin. Recovery from the latter is not guaranteed.
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jdriggs49(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:42 am Post subject: Spins |
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Has the FAA changed the way training is done? I remember having to do "recovery from unusual attitudes" (I think that it was called) that definately required recovery from stall/spins. It was a real rush as your vision narrowed down to just the prop as it appeared to stand still and the plane appeared to rotate around the prop! We stalled and then spun c-150s C C-172s and Warriers. Most of these were full on spins. This was for the private and then instrument airplane ratings. None of this with a parachute. It was really great training and lots of fun. This occured in the 1970 thru 1980s. During those times I trained with several different instructors. It really gave you the confidence and skills to recover from "unusual attitudes". Again C I'm a bit puzzled by the questions about spins. Are they not being taught anymore? Thanks C Dan P.S. I'm meeting my son-in-law in Vegas next weekend and we are signed up for sailplanes on Saturday at the Jean C NV airport. Anybody done that? Is it a rush?
| Quote: | Subject: Re: Spins
From: bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu
Date: Tue C 7 Apr 2009 20:11:24 -0700
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
I haven't spun a -10 either. All spins start with a wing stall. So for incipient spins (spin entries) C immediate stick forward C plus opposite rudder (resist the temptation to roll level with ailerons) should keep you from entering a fully developed spin. Recovery from the latter is not guaranteed.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238259#238259
=======================
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[quote]
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planesmith(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:19 am Post subject: Spins |
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As of 1997 (or some time before then) spins were not required training for getting a private license. Stalls C stall identification and stall recover still were. The thinking was to spin a plane it must first be in a stall so if you never get into a stall or can identify it early and recover is a safer strategy than knowing how to recover from a fully developed stall. Especially in low level flying turn/spin situations such as turning base to final.
Vern Smith (#324 finishing)
do not archive
From: jdriggs49(at)msn.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: Spins
Date: Wed C 8 Apr 2009 08:40:35 -0500
.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Has the FAA changed the way training is done? I remember having to do "recovery from unusual attitudes" (I think that it was called) that definately required recovery from stall/spins. It was a real rush as your vision narrowed down to just the prop as it appeared to stand still and the plane appeared to rotate around the prop! We stalled and then spun c-150s C C-172s and Warriers. Most of these were full on spins. This was for the private and then instrument airplane ratings. None of this with a parachute. It was really great training and lots of fun. This occured in the 1970 thru 1980s. During those times I trained with several different instructors. It really gave you the confidence and skills to recover from "unusual attitudes". Again C I'm a bit puzzled by the questions about spins. Are they not being taught anymore? Thanks C Dan P.S. I'm meeting my son-in-law in Vegas next weekend and we are signed up for sailplanes on Saturday at the Jean C NV airport. Anybody done that? Is it a rush?
| Quote: | Subject: Re: Spins
From: bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu
Date: Tue C 7 Apr 2009 20:11:24 -0700
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
I haven't spun a -10 either. All spins start with a wing stall. So for incipient spins (spin entries) C immediate stick forward C plus opposite rudder (resist the temptation to roll level with ailerons) should keep you from entering a fully developed spin. Recovery from the latter is not guaranteed.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238259#238259
=======================
|
Rediscover Hotmail®: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry Check it out. | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigatwww.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
Rediscover Hotmail®: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry Check it out. [quote][b]
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pilotdds(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:19 am Post subject: Spins |
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Warriors are not certified for spins so you are a test pilot-congratulations.Spin training is required only for CFIs .It is optional for anyone.Spin awareness and avoidence is however required.As an active cfi I support this and see little value in scaring some otherwise excellent pilotsThe best pilots use there superior judgement to avoid situations where they must use there superior skills.just my 2 cents.From: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 6:40 am
Subject: RE: Re: Spins
#AOLMsgPart_2_b9a73b65-1511-4657-90bb-9f735cb24f4d .hmmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px}#AOLMsgPart_2_b9a73b65-1511-4657-90bb-9f735cb24f4d body.hmmessage{font-size: 10pt;font-family:Verdana} Has the FAA changed the way training is done? I remember having to do "recovery from unusual attitudes" (I think that it was called) that definately required recovery from stall/spins. It was a real rush as your vision narrowed down to just the prop as it appeared to stand still and the plane appeared to rotate around the prop! We stalled and then spun c-150s, C-172s and Warriers. Most of these were full on spins. This was for the private and then instrument airplane ratings. None of this with a parachute. It was really great training and lots of fun. This occured in the 1970 thru 1980s. During those times I trained with several different instructors. It really gave you the confidence and skills to recover from "unusual attitudes". =2 0Again, I'm a bit puzzled by the questions about spins. Are they not being taught anymore? Thanks, Dan P.S. I'm meeting my son-in-law in Vegas next weekend and we are signed up for sailplanes on Saturday at the Jean, NV airport. Anybody done that? Is it a rush?
> Subject: Re: Spins
> From: bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 20:11:24 -0700
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>
>
> I haven't spun a -10 either. All spins start with a wing stall. So for incipient spins (spin entries), immediate stick forward, plus opposite rudder (resist the temptation to roll level with ailerons) should keep you from entering a fully developed spin. Recovery from the latter is not guaranteed.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238259#238259
>
>
>
=======================
>
>
>
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lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:22 am Post subject: Spins |
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Danny, I disagree. See below.
pilotdds(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | Warriors are not certified for spins so you are a test
pilot-congratulations.
Didn't know that ... I learned something!!!
|
| Quote: | Spin training is required only for CFIs .It is optional for
anyone.Spin awareness and avoidence is however required.
That's all well and good, as long as you're in the 'instructional
|
environment'.
| Quote: | As an active cfi I support this and see little value in scaring some
otherwise excellent pilots
IMHO, squashing the fear is the job of a good instructor. Good
|
preparation on the ground works wonders in the air. But I agree,
scaring the student (or anyone else) is not a good teaching tool. Spins
aren't something to be afraid of.
| Quote: | The best pilots use there superior judgement to avoid situations where
they must use there superior skills.
And how does a student get there? I don't think there's a pilot out
|
there that hasn't done something stupid and lived to tell the tale. (I
don't consider the dead ones in that category 'pilots' anymore). The
wrong time to 'experiment' with spin recovery is when you get into one
accidentally. I got my license in an AA-1B (which I still own) and it's
placarded against spins. I had to check out in another plane to get my
spin training as a student .... because if I did something stupid in the
Grumman, which really does want to spin ..... I wanted to know what it
was all about.
| Quote: | just my 2 cents.From: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com>
And I'll add mine. In a few decades, we should have a fortune!!!
|
(before taxes!)
Linn
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
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Charles Usery
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Ferndale, Washington
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:43 am Post subject: Spins |
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Another interesting note - The warrior is spin rated in Canada just not certified to do so in the United States. I took my private pilot training in a warrior in Washington state (right next to canada). We toyed with the idea of going into Canada and getting some spin training but did not. My plan is to go and get some arobatic training after our 10 is completed. The more knowlege the better.
Charles
do not archive
--- On Wed, 4/8/09, pilotdds(at)aol.com <pilotdds(at)aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: | From: pilotdds(at)aol.com <pilotdds(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Spins
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 7:18 AM
Warriors are not certified for spins so you are a test pilot-congratulations.Spin training is required only for CFIs .It is optional for anyone.Spin awareness and avoidence is however required.As an active cfi I support this and see little value in scaring some otherwise excellent pilotsThe best pilots use there superior judgement to avoid situations where they must use there superior skills.just my 2 cents.From: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 6:40 am
Subject: RE: Re: Spins
#yiv1199578476 #AOLMsgPart_2_b9a73b65-1511-4657-90bb-9f735cb24f4d .hmmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv1199578476 #AOLMsgPart_2_b9a73b65-1511-4657-90bb-9f735cb24f4d body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Has the FAA changed the way training is done? I remember having to do "recovery from unusual attitudes" (I think that it was called) that definately required recovery from stall/spins. It was a real rush as your vision narrowed down to just the prop as it appeared to stand still and the plane appeared to rotate around the prop! We stalled and then spun c-150s, C-172s and Warriers. Most of these were full on spins. This was for the private and then instrument airplane ratings. None of this with a parachute. It was really great training and lots of fun. This occured in the 1970 thru 1980s. During those times I trained with several different instructors. It really gave you the confidence and skills to recover from "unusual attitudes". =2 0Again, I'm a bit puzzled by the questions about spins. Are they not being taught anymore? Thanks, Dan P.S. I'm meeting my son-in-law in Vegas next weekend and we are signed up for sailplanes on Saturday at the Jean, NV airport. Anybody done that? Is it a rush?
Rediscover Hotmail®: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry Check it out. | Quote: |
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=3D=======================
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_________________
CR Usery
RV-10 N719PD (flying)
Ferndale, Washington
38W |
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Spins |
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My two cents:
1. Spin training has not been required for a private certificate since the 1970's (or maybe earlier?).
2. A CFI can give you spin training (in a plane certified for it), no parachutes required.
3. As a cfi I have always strongly suggested, and all my students have agreed to, doing a few spin entries (one or two turns) prior to solo stall practice. Just to see what they look like. Some students, on seeing the ground fill the windscreen, react by wanting to pull back, when of course they need to push forward. One or two spins is all it takes for them to recognize it, and react properly. A proper pre-flight ground briefing - so they know what to expect - takes most of the fear factor away.
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RV-10 QB |
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:09 am Post subject: Spins |
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Too slow on final with the controls crossed will invert the aircraft in the blink of an eye.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 8:20 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Spins
Vernon Smith wrote: | Quote: | | .hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } BODY.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana } As of 1997 (or some time before then) spins were not required training for getting a private license. Stalls, stall identification and stall recover still were. The thinking was to spin a plane it must first be in a stall so if you never get into a stall or can identify it early and recover is a safer strategy than knowing how to recover from a fully developed stall. |
Twice last year pilots got too slow on final and one spun in .... both survived but the airplane was totaled. The other one was low enough that it pancaked before the nose could drop ...... and that one was rebuildable. But I would have to agree that neither had sufficient altitude to recover from a spin ...... but they got there anyway.
| Quote: | Especially in low level flying turn/spin situations such as turning base to final.
|
Or stretching the glide on final by pulling up on the yoke (or stick  ) instead of adding power.
[quote]
Vern Smith (#324 finishing)
do not archive
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:16 am Post subject: Spins |
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A proper briefing is always required. I once took an Instrument student and
coaxed him into cross controlled stalls without the hood then under the
hood. He was capable of hooded recovery of the snap to inverted and the
start of a spin, a recovery from the dive. I cautioned that he needed to do
it right or he might kill us both. I an writing this so he did it right.
--
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sblankdds(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject: Spins |
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You will enjoy your spin training in the C-172, it is very predictable and can be fun. Don't just spin, plan to exit on a specific heading, challenge yourself to get good. For a non-aerobatic pilot, the goals are two: Learn what it feels like to cause a plane to spin (they dont spin, we spin them) and know what it takes to exit a spin safely without detaching the wings on a rapid pull out from the new view of the earth in the windshield. I like just slowing the plane (C-170) down while keeping level with increasing back pressure (like going too slow in a flat pattern) with a little rudder input and all of the sudden, the nose drops and it seems like one wing is pinned and you see your town like never before! Enjoy! As for the parachute, unless there is an ejection seat, it seems silly to me, but it is the regs. If you get good at this, entering a spin in your -10 will not happen.....you will be that much more aware of what you do after the training.
Steve
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Chad E. Carlson <me(at)chadcarlson.com (me(at)chadcarlson.com)> wrote:
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Hi Jim,
On a related note, I am planning to attend spin training next month (weather permitting) at a local, FAA-sanctioned course. We’ll be spinning a C-172, wearing parachutes, etc. I must admit I am a little nervous, but I really want to spin for the experience of knowing what it feels and looks like first-hand
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Stephen G. Blank, DDS
184 NW Central Park Plaza
Port St. Lucie, FL 34986
772-475-5556 Cell
772-878-7347 Office
[quote][b]
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taildragon(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:34 pm Post subject: Spins |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> When this subject comes up, I've wanted to say this, so here goes.
Any good test pilot will put your RV10 through spins, loops and rolls while in Phase I test. Once in Phase II, such maneuvers are prohibited unless done in Phase I and specifically noted in your Phase II Operating Limitations. Does that mean that you could/should go out in your RV10 and do spins, loops and rolls? Are you as good an acrobatic pilot as your test pilot? These maneuvers done correctly, solo, are well within the load range of the RV10. These maneuvers done poorly are probably not! Don't even think about doing spins, loops and rolls and/or other acrobatic maneuvers in your RV10 unless you have had extensive training and are proficient and current in other planes. Additionally, be sure you understand the unique design characteristics of the RV10 and how these characteristics affect the performance of these maneuvers. That said...if you want to do acrobatics, do them in a Citabria...they are in the mission of that airplane. Acrobatics are not in the mission of the RV10. Oh, but you are worried that you might approach spin conditions while in your daily flying. Well, maybe practice practice practice staying well away from those conditions by making early planned descents, flying larger patterns, making shallow bank turns, staying coordinated, tuning base and final airspeed to load conditions and remember that go-arounds are an option if things are not working out.
Roger
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johngoodman
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Spins |
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Many years ago I taught spins in the Navy. For straight winged aircraft it's pretty simple. Power idle, and neutralize the controls. All you really have to do is let go of the controls and wind the clock. After it recovers itself, gently bring the nose back up to level flight adding power. The biggest issue is the trim. If you absentmindedly trimmed into the stall, you are in for a big surprise when it comes out.
John
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