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Monowheel Brake

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ploucandco

Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 69

Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 8:21 am Post subject: Monowheel Brake

Hi all,



I would like to hear your experience with the monowheel brake system. I purchased my Europa XS monowheel from the builder about 1 year ago (N205CN has its 1st flight on May 2006) and had all the issues that I could imagine with the brake system till now.



After bleeding the master cylinder at least 5 times (leaks with air coming in), I decided to completely replace the whole system beginning of this year: master, slave and tube. 

Europa first sent me a leaking master cylinder that was replaced for free.



So during the 20 hours that I flew after this replacement, I already got 2 times the tube to come out from the slave cylinder connection. Today I got the tube to come out of the master cylinder.



I became a master in flushing the whole system and reconnecting everything as well as bleeding from the slave cylinder in less than 15 minutes. That's not the issue.



But, this system is not acceptable from a safety point of view. Today, I got no brake at the end of the runway (400m concrete). Good that I stopped the engine and that there is 50 meters grass after the runway... 

2 months ago, I was doing the mag check at 3000RPM when I lost the brake! I luckily touched nothing but finished my course 2 meters from the hangar door.



Am I the only one who is facing such issues with the monowheel brake?

Potentially, do someone of you have a solution that enhance the safety of this system?



Thanks for your input, Jacques.

ken carp

Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Posts: 29
Location: Knoxville, TN

Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:10 am Post subject: Monowheel Brake

Been flying with my brake system seven years and 525 hours without any problems.  sounds like your connections on the end of the tube are flawed is some way.   

ken carpenter   N9XS  mono 914 

---

_________________
ken carpenter

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:38 am Post subject: Monowheel Brake

Hi Jacques



I have a XS monowheel, but am not yet flying.



I however did work on plumbing my brake system.



I suspect that you may be using american sized brake tube instead of metric. It is so very close in size to metric, but I was not able to make a good seal, I inspected contact area (crushed seal) after tightening down and it was very marginal at best. American tubing is smaller in diameter compared to supplied metric.



Another problem is that american pipe threads are oh so close to metric in diameter and pitch, but again not the same, so you can't just screw in place american fittings IMHO and use american diameter hose.



I was unable to find metric brake hose in the states, I ordered the longer piece needed from Europa.



Ron Paigoris

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

mikenjulie.parkin(at)btin
Guest

Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:59 am Post subject: Monowheel Brake

Jaques,



I did away with the standard system and installed a calliper break master

cylinder on the stick.  The calliper  was made in France by MDO, it is very

powerful and brilliant to use.  One finger is all that is needed on the

lever, it also has a built in parking break.  The only shortcoming of the

system is that the brake is only available to the left-hand seat.  Not a

problem for me, as apart from 2 notable exceptions (Ivan Shaw and Andy

Draper) no one flies my baby apart from me.



Regards,



Mike 



Do not archive.



--

ploucandco

Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 69

Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel Brake

Hi Ron, I am just using the tube that I got from Europa...



Mike, do you have a phone number, a website or something like that?



Other suggestions?



Thanks, Jacques.

paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:15 pm Post subject: Monowheel Brake

Hi Jacques,



Like Ken, I have had very little trouble with my mono brake.  I noticed that you said it took 15 minutes to bleed your system and I was wondering if you had the brake bleeding kit that Europa sell.  It is a funnel that fits into the the hole in the master cylinder and I find that bleeding my brake system with this to be very fast and easy.

 

Paul

  [quote][b]

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: Monowheel Brake

Hi Jaques"Hi Ron, I am just using the tube that I got from Europa... "Measure diameter, it sure does sound like you have american size.If you need I will measure mine, but I think the metric was like 6 or 8 thosands larger in diameter than the american size. A standard piece of paper is ~ .0025".Ron Parigoris   [quote][b]

mikenjulie.parkin(at)btin
Guest

Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:42 pm Post subject: Monowheel Brake

I lost the man's details when my old computer died.  I think he came from

Biarritz.  Perhaps one of our French readers could track him down.



Regards,



Mike.



--

justin(at)systemwise.co.u
Guest

Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 12:40 am Post subject: Monowheel Brake

Hi,  

   

I too have put my master cylinder on the control stick. I found that Mountain bike brake specialist “Hope” made a lever with integral master cylinder ideal for the job here in the UK. Mountain bikes are very light these days and this was a beautifully engineered part.  

I did look at the French one mentioned by Jacques but it was twice the weight of the Hope offering. The Hope offering has no parking brake and I find it a real nuisance not to have one.  In hindsight I would probably go for the French one which has an hydraulic shut off valve for the park brake.   

What I would say is that having a brake that can be operated by one finger on the stick is a huge advantage. The safest place to do the braking on my monowheel is just after touch down when there is still bags of elevator authority. At this point it is better to concentrate on flying the aeroplane than reaching out to operate a brake leaver on the far side of the tunnel. Along with Jacques I find the braking a lot more controllable too. The braking action more controllable too  

Just my pennyworth.  

   

Justin  

   

Justin Kennedy  

G-ZTED Europa Classic Monowheel  

912S Airmaster CP with Warp Drive blades.  

   

      [quote][b]

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 2:05 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel Brake

Jacques,



From my racing days I was suspect of using plastic tubing in a brake system and others were reporting leaks with the Europa supplied parts.  So, we replaced the hose with stainless steel braided hose and the matching fittings during the initial build.  Got all the parts from McMaster.  I can probably find the part numbers if you need them.



Jim & Heather

N241BW

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:20 am Post subject: Monowheel Brake

Justin & Mike,



I (for one) would be most interested in seeing a photo of your installations if you have one handy which you could post.

Thanks...Fred



On May 24, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Mike Parkin wrote:

[quote] This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.   [quote][b]

ploucandco

Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 69

Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:46 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel Brake

Hi Jim,



I am really interested in part numbers for these fittings. Well, what is unclear is how do you manage the fact that the brake calliper (slave) is moving with the wheel when retracting it. I would be surprised if the stainless steel braided hose is flexible enough. What kind of solution do you have there? A high pressure flexible hose for some part ?



Thanks, Jacques.

ploucandco

Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 69

Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 7:02 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel Brake

Hi Jim,



Is http://www.mcmaster.com/#braided-hose/=210iuu the kind of tube that you are using? Thne it is clear that it is flexible.



Thanks, Jacques.

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 3:49 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel Brake

Jacques,



Yes, it is similar.  I think I actually used the hose on page 248 P/N 52515K22.  



I used the same hose, larger diameter for the oil return from the bottom of the Rotax to the oil tank.



I'll dig thru the old receipts today and get you the P/N.



Jim

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:12 am Post subject: Monowheel Brake

Hi Jim



When you used McMaster hose, I imagine you used the american fittings they sell.



Did you do anything special when you screwed them into the metric pipe threads? Sealant? Retapped?



Thx.

Ron Parigoris

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

terrys(at)cisco.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 9:10 am Post subject: Monowheel Brake

Hi Ron,



We also used American fittings to allow the use of stainless braided

brake lines from Summit Racing.  We used an American standards pipe

thread tap to clean out the threads on the master and slave cylinders,

making sure not to get shavings into the parts.  This has been very

reliable for 8 years now.



Regards,

Terry Seaver

A135 / N135TD

--

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Monowheel Brake

Jacques & Ron,



I have the receipt from McMaster.  I used 52515K21 hose, 52515K41 fittings for end of hose and 50695K181 elbows into the brake caliper and master cylinder.  Per Terry's note above, I cleaned the threads with a 1/8" NPT tap.  Did not use any sealant.  Has worked fine for 100 hrs, 2 years.



Jim

ploucandco

Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 69

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:27 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel Brake

OK back to the topic!

Installed hoses, fittings and elbows as Jim suggested (many thanks to him who organized for me all the hardware). Worked very well during summer...



But after 1.5 year and winters like -20C... The brake is again an issue. Got a new master cylinder from Europa but it leaks! (the second one from Europa that I get that has leaks).



So I cannot anymore contemplate a master cylinder from Europa (or Kart components) in my plane without a reservoir.



I am inclined to go for the master cylinder on the sick from MDO... But still prefer to use one hand for the stick and one hand for the brake. Never change a winning team 



Someone who has a working and reliable solution?



Thanks, Jacques.

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