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FSII

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tc1917(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:52 am Post subject: FSII

Just might be me but I would think 650-700 fpm climb would be bad.  I mean, 

a FSII with 60 or so horses up top would have a whole lot better climb.  I 

have access to a FSII with a 503 and it climbs better than 1000 fpm.  Maybe 

even closer to 1200 most of the time.  I had an original FS with a 447 that 

climbed a whole lot better than that.  What gives?  Ted Cowan, Alabama, 

Slingshot 912 ul.

frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:20 am Post subject: FSII

Hi Ted,



My firestar 2 with the 60 hp HKS and at gros wt. of 725 lbs climbs at  

somewhere around 700 ft per min on a 100 degree day with a relitive  

humidity about 90%I would like to have the numbers you have

but just don"t. tjere are a couple of other HKS firestars around.,  

wonder how they do?



Frank goodnight

Firestar2 HKS

Brownsville TX

On Aug 2, 2009, at 5:41 AM, Ted Cowan wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Just might be me but I would think 650-700 fpm climb would be bad.   

 I mean, a FSII with 60 or so horses up top would have a whole lot  

 better climb.  I have access to a FSII with a 503 and it climbs  

 better than 1000 fpm.  Maybe even closer to 1200 most of the time.   

 I had an original FS with a 447 that climbed a whole lot better than  

 that.  What gives?  Ted Cowan, Alabama, Slingshot 912 ul.

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:05 am Post subject: FSII

I have flown my Firestar II with a 447, first at 280 lbs  empty weight. It flew well, but I had no way to tell what the climb rate was.  Then with a 503, but by that time I had powder coated the cage, put on enough  auto paint to fill the weave of the fabric and a lot of more stuff to add  weight. At my altitude with a Garmin 196 as the only way to measure my climb,  and I never saw more than 350 fpm. Now with a HKS and a plane that apparently  weighs in at 460 I can see climbs of 4 to 500 fpm. This is all at 4000 feet  altitude.

 Larry 

 [quote]   ---

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:28 am Post subject: FSII

Larry C:

  

 Hard for folks, that fly at sea level, to fully  grasp the degradation of performance caused by altitude and density  altitude.

  

 Us flat land, sea level guys are always in for a  rude awakening the first few days we spend on our trips out West.  My  airplane, with seemingly unlimited performance at sea level, suddenly will not  leap off the ground, barely climbs, and has a habit of dropping out of the sky  during higher altitude approaches.

  

 Based on cargo weight and altitude, I think Frank  G's FSII performed admirably at Monument Valley, UT, this year, flying off a  strip at 5,200 feet ASL.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

 [quote]    

   I have flown my Firestar II with a 447, first at 280 lbs    empty weight. It flew well, but I had no way to tell what the climb rate was.    Then with a 503, but by that time I had powder coated the cage, put on enough    auto paint to fill the weave of the fabric and a lot of more stuff to add    weight. At my altitude with a Garmin 196 as the only way to measure my climb,    and I never saw more than 350 fpm. Now with a HKS and a plane that apparently    weighs in at 460 I can see climbs of 4 to 500 fpm. This is all at 4000 feet    altitude.

   Larry 

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:43 am Post subject: FSII

You will be happy to know that this time I already have my  winter wood supply, split and put up. The only thing that can interfere with my  gypsy ways is the two birds that I will 

  

 have to be flying. [img]cid:FE0CAAECA77F4FCC9908D94C47AC5F23(at)larryPC[/img]

  

 Larry

  

  

  

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lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:01 am Post subject: Re: FSII

 	  tc1917(at)bellsouth.net wrote: 	
		  Just might be me but I would think 650-700 fpm climb would be bad.  I mean, 

a FSII with 60 or so horses up top would have a whole lot better climb.  I 

have access to a FSII with a 503 and it climbs better than 1000 fpm.  Maybe 

even closer to 1200 most of the time.  I had an original FS with a 447 that 

climbed a whole lot better than that.  What gives?  Ted Cowan, Alabama, 

Slingshot 912 ul. 	




At sea level, that's not too bad. Tho my FSII with the 503, 3.47:1 C box and 68" WD 3 blade taper tip did around 1000 fpm at about 2000' MSL density altitude. Plane was 440lbs empty so a little on the heavy side. 



The plane is pretty much tailor-made for the 503 so that motor probably gives the best performance unless you overpower it with something else.



But 700 fpm is not that bad. I'm assuming you're talking about Jimmy's report with his with the new HKS fitted? There's a little more weight and probably more drag with the extra surface area on top, but still that's pretty decent.  



At high density altitudes, tho, I dunno. I got between 300 and 400 fpm here in northern NM at density altitudes of about 8000' MSL with the 503 leaned out as much as I dared. Flyable, but a little nerve-wracking until the houses started getting a little smaller. I don't know how an HKS equipped one would do....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:10 am Post subject: Re: FSII

 	  John Hauck wrote: 	
		  Larry C:

  

 Hard for folks, that fly at sea level, to fully  grasp the degradation of performance caused by altitude and density  altitude.

  

 Us flat land, sea level guys are always in for a  rude awakening the first few days we spend on our trips out West.  My  airplane, with seemingly unlimited performance at sea level, suddenly will not  leap off the ground, barely climbs, and has a habit of dropping out of the sky  during higher altitude approaches.

  

 Based on cargo weight and altitude, I think Frank  G's FSII performed admirably at Monument Valley, UT, this year, flying off a  strip at 5,200 feet ASL.

  

 john h

 mkIII

	




A 503 equipped FS II will do ok at high DA's. Like I said, the typical DA where I fly is around 8000' MSL (it'll drop to 6000 to 7000' in winter) and my FS II was always flyable. 

Course we got super long runways all over the place up here, usually a mile long or more, because of our general lack of air. So I always still had runway underneath by the time I got to a safe altitude to turn away from the airport.



Best performance was the first new years day I lived here, it was 11F and I recorded 400fpm. Worst was about 300fpm one evening in late summer where it was about 75F with density altitude around 8500' MSL.



Landing and takeoff ground speeds are also noticeably higher at those density altitudes so that takes a little getting used to also....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:18 am Post subject: FSII

Even with the heavier weight, it would improve the 503's  performance by about 2-300 fpm.

 [quote]   Larry

   

At high density altitudes, tho, I dunno. I got between 300 and 400    fpm here in northern NM at density altitudes of about 8000' MSL with the 503    leaned out as much as I dared. Flyable, but a little nerve-wracking until the    houses started getting a little smaller. I don't know how an HKS equipped one    would do....



LS



--------

LS

Titan II    SS





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Jimmy Young

Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 182
Location: Missouri City, TX

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: FSII

Cowan writes:



>Just might be me but I would think 650-700 fpm climb would be bad. I mean, 

a FSII with 60 or so horses up top would have a whole lot better climb. I 

have access to a FSII with a 503 and it climbs better than 1000 fpm. Maybe 

even closer to 1200 most of the time. I had an original FS with a 447 that 

climbed a whole lot better than that. What gives? Ted Cowan, Alabama, 

Slingshot 912 ul.<



Ted,



Don't know what gives, but I've never gotten the cruise speeds some of the Firestar owners claim. I've got big tundra tires, my plane weighs 750 lbs. with me and 13 gal of fuel in it, I've got a heavier thicker tailwheel, I don't have a full enclosure, it's 100 degrees with 75 degree dew points here when I'm flying, so all those items figure into the equation. I'm sure some of the Firestars are lighter & more aerodynamic than mine, and I'm glad for them that they can get that kind of performance. But, I like the big tires and the wide tailwheel and they are staying on. I do wonder if installing the gull-wing type doors on my enclosure would help clean up my profile some, and wouldn't mind trying that some day.  



I remember when I had the 503 on, and the climb rates and cruise speeds were about the same with the 503 as what I've got now with the HKS. 



I flew today to the old airstrip I used to hanger at, and there is an 800 ft. strip there with 25 ft. trees at the end. I took off into a left-quartering wind, and was up and out easily. I'll probably never need to take off out of a strip tighter than that, so I'm tickled pink. I haven't used that runway since back when I had the 503 on.

_________________
Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:31 pm Post subject: FSII

> I flew today to the old airstrip I used to hanger at, and there is an 800 

ft. strip there with 25 ft. trees at the end. I took off into a 

left-quartering wind, and was up and out easily. I'll probably never need to 

take off out of a strip tighter than that, so I'm tickled pink. I haven't 

used that runway since back when I had the 503 on.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 --------

 Jimmy Young


	




Good news, Jimmy.



Now you can breeze out of Nauga Field.



john h

mkIII

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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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