Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

edgraydallas

Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 74
Location: Dallas, Tx

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:25 am Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

I need help with my tailwheel spring.  I installed a Matco tailwheel (full

swivel) I bought from Kitfox.  It has a single leaf spring with about a 30

degree bend.  While taxi testing on the mains and allowing the tail to drop

to the runway, the large bolt and castle nut through the swivel has

contacted the bottom tube of the rudder and slightly bent it.  The spring is

obviously too weak.  Do I need a thicker spring or another leaf to double

it?  As I recall the spring is part of the Matco tailwheel kit.  The plane

weighs #525 and there is only 40 lbs. on the tailwheel.  All advice

appreciated.  Now taxi testing and waiting for the Faa registration to come

through.  It wants to fly but I am holding her down!



A pilot friend says any FAA licensed inspector can do the sign-off.  I was

thinking only an FAA guy or EAA designee could do it



Ed Gray, Dallas, KII , 582 do not archive



--

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:55 am Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

Ed, How about some pics? My Mod 3 weighs 100# more than yours with 38# on tailwheel. I start taxi testing next week. I got my 3 leaf taiwheel spring from Kitfox. I am using the 2 long springs only. It seemed mighty stiff with all 3 leaves. If I remember correctly yours is a Mod 2.

   

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

  

 On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Ed Gray <egraylaw(at)swbell.net (egraylaw(at)swbell.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ed Gray" <egraylaw(at)swbell.net (egraylaw(at)swbell.net)>

 

I need help with my tailwheel spring.  I installed a Matco tailwheel (full

swivel) I bought from Kitfox.  It has a single leaf spring with about a 30

degree bend.  While taxi testing on the mains and allowing the tail to drop

 to the runway, the large bolt and castle nut through the swivel has

contacted the bottom tube of the rudder and slightly bent it.  The spring is

obviously too weak.  Do I need a thicker spring or another leaf to double

 it?  As I recall the spring is part of the Matco tailwheel kit.  The plane

weighs #525 and there is only 40 lbs. on the tailwheel.  All advice

appreciated.  Now taxi testing and waiting for the Faa registration to come

 through.  It wants to fly but I am holding her down!



A pilot friend says any FAA licensed inspector can do the sign-off.  I was

thinking only an FAA guy or EAA designee could do it



Ed Gray, Dallas, KII , 582 do not archive

 

--

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:01 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

Ed-



I had a single-with-helper spring (two leaves total) as original  

equipment on my model and it broke, allowing the tail to contact the  

ground. I got a three-leaf replacement form John and Debra. This  

arrangement has a hole for the tailwheel-bracket mounting bolt that  

goes through both of the long leaves. Even if one leaf breaks, you  

will still have one leaf holding the tail up. The chances of both  

leaves breaking at the same time is probably astronomical. With the  

original set-up, only the one long leaf is bolted to the tailwheel  

bracket, and when that leaf breaks, your tail is on the ground.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 760.3 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

On Sep 7, 2009, at 2:19 PM, Ed Gray wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I need help with my tailwheel spring.  I installed a Matco  

 tailwheel (full

 swivel) I bought from Kitfox.  It has a single leaf spring with  

 about a 30

 degree bend.  While taxi testing on the mains and allowing the tail  

 to drop

 to the runway, the large bolt and castle nut through the swivel has

 contacted the bottom tube of the rudder and slightly bent it.  The  

 spring is

 obviously too weak.  Do I need a thicker spring or another leaf to  

 double

 it?  As I recall the spring is part of the Matco tailwheel kit.   

 The plane

 weighs #525 and there is only 40 lbs. on the tailwheel.  All advice

 appreciated.  Now taxi testing and waiting for the Faa registration  

 to come

 through.  It wants to fly but I am holding her down!



 A pilot friend says any FAA licensed inspector can do the sign- 

 off.  I was

 thinking only an FAA guy or EAA designee could do it



 Ed Gray, Dallas, KII , 582

 hank you for your generous support!

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

 	  edgraydallas wrote: 	
		  I need help with my tailwheel spring.  I installed a Matco tailwheel (full

swivel) I bought from Kitfox.  It has a single leaf spring with about a 30

degree bend.  While taxi testing on the mains and allowing the tail to drop

to the runway, the large bolt and castle nut through the swivel has

contacted the bottom tube of the rudder and slightly bent it.  The spring is

obviously too weak.  Do I need a thicker spring or another leaf to double

it?  As I recall the spring is part of the Matco tailwheel kit.  The plane

weighs #525 and there is only 40 lbs. on the tailwheel.  All advice

appreciated.  Now taxi testing and waiting for the Faa registration to come

through.  It wants to fly but I am holding her down!



A pilot friend says any FAA licensed inspector can do the sign-off.  I was

thinking only an FAA guy or EAA designee could do it



Ed Gray, Dallas, KII , 582 do not archive



-- 	




The tail drop or slam?  I have flown a buddies Model A with single leaf spring and have not banged the rudder yet, but can see where it could easily be done!  I have 51# on my TW and am using the 2 leaf spring from Avid.  I bent it this winter hitting ice covered snowmachine tracks but not enough to contact the rudder!

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

KeysFox

Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 137

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:18 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

Consider shim between spring and where rear bolts attach spring to fuselage

My early  model IV rudder extends down even with bottom of fuselage so spring could hit bottom of rudder without shim

Later model IV rudders do not extend down as far and provide more clearance

BJ

N154K

Do not archive

---

_________________
B Jones
N154K
443-480-1023

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:24 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

Lynn, I eliminated the small top leaf. The 3 leafs seemed like it just was too much spring. I haven't flown it yet. I start taxi tests this week. What do you think about using only the 2 full length leaves.

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

 On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>

 



Ed-



I had a single-with-helper spring (two leaves total) as original equipment on my model and it broke, allowing the tail to contact the ground. I got a three-leaf replacement form John and Debra. This arrangement has a hole for the tailwheel-bracket mounting bolt that goes through both of the long leaves. Even if one leaf breaks, you will still have one leaf holding the tail up. The chances of both leaves breaking at the same time is probably astronomical. With the original set-up, only the one long leaf is bolted to the tailwheel bracket, and when that leaf breaks, your tail is on the ground.  



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 760.3 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

 

 On Sep 7, 2009, at 2:19 PM, Ed Gray wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ed Gray" <egraylaw(at)swbell.net (egraylaw(at)swbell.net)>



I need help with my tailwheel spring.  I installed a Matco tailwheel (full

 swivel) I bought from Kitfox.  It has a single leaf spring with about a 30

degree bend.  While taxi testing on the mains and allowing the tail to drop

to the runway, the large bolt and castle nut through the swivel has

 contacted the bottom tube of the rudder and slightly bent it.  The spring is

obviously too weak.  Do I need a thicker spring or another leaf to double

it?  As I recall the spring is part of the Matco tailwheel kit.  The plane

 weighs #525 and there is only 40 lbs. on the tailwheel.  All advice

appreciated.  Now taxi testing and waiting for the Faa registration to come

through.  It wants to fly but I am holding her down!



A pilot friend says any FAA licensed inspector can do the sign-off.  I was

 thinking only an FAA guy or EAA designee could do it



Ed Gray, Dallas, KII , 582



 hank you for your generous support!





	
  

 ist Un/Subscription,

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 =====



[b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:13 am Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

Hey Pat-



I think about this nearly every time I bounce down the grass runway.  

I just haven't got around to doing it yet. I'm nearing the point  

where I need to replace the "kingpin" bushing in the Maule tailwheel  

bracket, and that might be the time to do it. I've been dickin'  

around with the other end of the aircraft, and haven't been paying  

enough attention to maintenance. : ) John McBean suggested this to me  

last year, but I haven't tried it yet. You might even try it with a  

shorter leaf at the "short leaf" position. That would provide for a  

bit less stiffness, but still prevent full deflection of the two  

mains if you run over some really rough ground. Maybe if you made  

this short leaf out of plain old hot-rolled flat stock and didn't  

heat treat it, after a while it would provide some indication of  

forces having been applied to it...sort of like a "tattle-tale"  

indicator.....just a thought.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 760.3 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

On Sep 7, 2009, at 8:20 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn, I eliminated the small top leaf. The 3 leafs seemed like it  

 just was too much spring. I haven't flown it yet. I start taxi  

 tests this week. What do you think about using only the 2 full  

 length leaves.



 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL



 On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>  

 wrote:

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:56 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

Hey Pat-

I ran out of things to do today, so I took the tailspring apart and  

cut two and a half inches off the top leaf. This gives the other two  

leaves the chance to flex a bit, and it made the ride a bit softer.  

How much softer is hard to say, because I was paying attention to  

where I was going, and watching gauges, etc., but didn't notice the  

jolting that I sometimes would. On the other hand, it rained cats and  

dogs yesterday, so the field could have been a bit softer, too. I'll  

pay attention tomorrow when I go up.



I figured that I'd leave the short spring in and just shorten  

it...that way it acts as a 1/4" shim, lowering the tailwheel assembly  

away from the rudder, and also so I didn't have to change bolt  

lengths, and those small spacer lengths, either.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 761.4 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~239 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

On Sep 7, 2009, at 8:20 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn, I eliminated the small top leaf. The 3 leafs seemed like it  

 just was too much spring. I haven't flown it yet. I start taxi  

 tests this week. What do you think about using only the 2 full  

 length leaves.



 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL



 On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>  

 wrote:

 

 Ed-



 I had a single-with-helper spring (two leaves total) as original  

 equipment on my model and it broke, allowing the tail to contact  

 the ground. I got a three-leaf replacement form John and Debra.  

 This arrangement has a hole for the tailwheel-bracket mounting bolt  

 that goes through both of the long leaves. Even if one leaf breaks,  

 you will still have one leaf holding the tail up. The chances of  

 both leaves breaking at the same time is probably astronomical.  

 With the original set-up, only the one long leaf is bolted to the  

 tailwheel bracket, and when that leaf breaks, your tail is on the  

 ground.

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, #2062, 760.3 hrs

 Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

 Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 Rotec TBI-40 injection

 Status: flying

 On Sep 7, 2009, at 2:19 PM, Ed Gray wrote:



 



 I need help with my tailwheel spring.  I installed a Matco  

 tailwheel (full

 swivel) I bought from Kitfox.  It has a single leaf spring with  

 about a 30

 degree bend.  While taxi testing on the mains and allowing the tail  

 to drop

 to the runway, the large bolt and castle nut through the swivel has

 contacted the bottom tube of the rudder and slightly bent it.  The  

 spring is

 obviously too weak.  Do I need a thicker spring or another leaf to  

 double

 it?  As I recall the spring is part of the Matco tailwheel kit.   

 The plane

 weighs #525 and there is only 40 lbs. on the tailwheel.  All advice

 appreciated.  Now taxi testing and waiting for the Faa registration  

 to come

 through.  It wants to fly but I am holding her down!



 A pilot friend says any FAA licensed inspector can do the sign- 

 off.  I was

 thinking only an FAA guy or EAA designee could do it



 Ed Gray, Dallas, KII , 582

 hank you for your generous support!



 ist Un/Subscription,

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http:// 

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 =====





 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:27 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

Lynn. I had to have mine rearched and didn't have the top spring rearched. I can have that done no problem if I decide to use it.. What spacers are you talking about? Also what is the empty weight of yur plane? 

   

 Pat Reilly

 On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>

 

Hey Pat-

I ran out of things to do today, so I took the tailspring apart and cut two and a half inches off the top leaf. This gives the other two leaves the chance to flex a bit, and it made the ride a bit softer. How much softer is hard to say, because I was paying attention to where I was going, and watching gauges, etc., but didn't notice the jolting that I sometimes would. On the other hand, it rained cats and dogs yesterday, so the field could have been a bit softer, too. I'll pay attention tomorrow when I go up.

 

I figured that I'd leave the short spring in and just shorten it...that way it acts as a 1/4" shim, lowering the tailwheel assembly away from the rudder, and also so I didn't have to change bolt lengths, and those small spacer lengths, either.

 

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 761.4 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~239 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

 Status: flying

On Sep 7, 2009, at 8:20 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:



 [quote]Lynn, I eliminated the small top leaf. The 3 leafs seemed like it just was too much spring. I haven't flown it yet. I start taxi tests this week. What do you think about using only the 2 full length leaves.

 

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford, IL



On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)> wrote:

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>

 



Ed-



I had a single-with-helper spring (two leaves total) as original equipment on my model and it broke, allowing the tail to contact the ground. I got a three-leaf replacement form John and Debra. This arrangement has a hole for the tailwheel-bracket mounting bolt that goes through both of the long leaves. Even if one leaf breaks, you will still have one leaf holding the tail up. The chances of both leaves breaking at the same time is probably astronomical. With the original set-up, only the one long leaf is bolted to the tailwheel bracket, and when that leaf breaks, your tail is on the ground.

 



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 760.3 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

 



On Sep 7, 2009, at 2:19 PM, Ed Gray wrote:



--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ed Gray" <egraylaw(at)swbell.net (egraylaw(at)swbell.net)>



 I need help with my tailwheel spring.  I installed a Matco tailwheel (full

swivel) I bought from Kitfox.  It has a single leaf spring with about a 30

degree bend.  While taxi testing on the mains and allowing the tail to drop

 to the runway, the large bolt and castle nut through the swivel has

contacted the bottom tube of the rudder and slightly bent it.  The spring is

obviously too weak.  Do I need a thicker spring or another leaf to double

 it?  As I recall the spring is part of the Matco tailwheel kit.  The plane

weighs #525 and there is only 40 lbs. on the tailwheel.  All advice

appreciated.  Now taxi testing and waiting for the Faa registration to come

 through.  It wants to fly but I am holding her down!



A pilot friend says any FAA licensed inspector can do the sign-off.  I was

thinking only an FAA guy or EAA designee could do it



Ed Gray, Dallas, KII , 582

 hank you for your generous support!



ist Un/Subscription,

www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

Matt Dralle, List Admin.

=====

 



http:=====

  http://forums.mle, List Admin.

 =====



[b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:46 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

There are two spacers, one on either side of the stack of leaves, and  

there is a #10 AN bolt that goes up through a metal clamping plate,  

then through each of these spacers, and into a metal plate that is  

welded to the fuselage. They are used to keep the leaves in  

alignment. My leaves are 1-1/4" wide.

My empty weight was 650 at the weigh-in, but probably closer to  

660-670 by now. At weigh-in there was 43 lbs on the rear, 305 on one  

wheel and 302 on the other...funny how I can still remember those  

numbers. My extra weight on the rear undoubtedly came from the ribs  

that I built into the vertical and the rudder.



You had to have the NEW springs from McBean re-arched? Why?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 761.4 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~239 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

On Sep 9, 2009, at 6:20 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn. I had to have mine rearched and didn't have the top spring  

 rearched. I can have that done no problem if I decide to use it..  

 What spacers are you talking about? Also what is the empty weight  

 of yur plane?



 Pat Reilly

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:24 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

Lynn, I have the bush gear which is 4" taller. The tailwheel pivot bolt did not have enough castor angle. As a matter of fact it had alot of the wrong castor angle.  I had the spring flattened considerably. I don't think 4" taller landing gear made all the difference, but maybe.  I don't have those spacers in my tailwheel mounting. Just the plate welded to the fusalage and the bottom plate. I wondered about the ability of my mounting to keep the spring from shifting sideways at that clamping point.

  Your plane weighs 32# more than mine. You have a much heavier engine. I don't remember the individual main weights. It is 590 on the mains and 38# on the rear. I really thought I would come in around 590#, but my plane has everything on it and doors that have a heavy latch system and gas struts. I can see how I went overboard, and could have eliminated maybe 50#. But damn it, I don't see how those boys bring a mod 3 kitfox in under 500# with anything at all on the plane.

   

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL   

 On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)> wrote:

 [quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>

There are two spacers, one on either side of the stack of leaves, and there is a #10 AN bolt that goes up through a metal clamping plate, then through each of these spacers, and into a metal plate that is welded to the fuselage. They are used to keep the leaves in alignment. My leaves are 1-1/4" wide.

 My empty weight was 650 at the weigh-in, but probably closer to 660-670 by now. At weigh-in there was 43 lbs on the rear, 305 on one wheel and 302 on the other...funny how I can still remember those numbers. My extra weight on the rear undoubtedly came from the ribs that I built into the vertical and the rudder.

 

You had to have the NEW springs from McBean re-arched? Why?  



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 761.4 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~239 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

On Sep 9, 2009, at 6:20 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		  Lynn. I had to have mine rearched and didn't have the top spring rearched. I can have that done no problem if I decide to use it.. What spacers are you talking about? Also what is the empty weight of yur plane?

 

Pat Reilly



	




  

 ubscription,

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 =====



[b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:20 am Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

For some reason I thought that the 582 was pretty close to the 132  

(advertised) lbs of the Jabiru, but I could be wrong. Oh,oh, I see  

another engine-weight battle looming on the horizon. : )



If you don't have those little spacers, the bottom plate can be bent  

by over-tightening the #10 bolts...or maybe even bend the welded-on  

plate. Maybe that's where the Model 3 saved some weight...just  

kidding....but that's how weight is saved. Also, I have the Grove  

gear which is heavier but I wouldn't trade it for anything. I'm sure  

my high number of flying hours is a direct tribute to not being in  

the hangar straightening my landing gear.



I'm wondering if those light mod 3's even HAVE doors on them? That's  

another thing...I have the double pin latches, AND the lower door  

latch, and gas struts. Maybe I saved some weight in my paint job, as  

much as I see fading and wearing off where I grab the plane to push  

it around. : ) (I didn't try to save weight when it came to the Poly- 

Spray, though)



Four inches over...what....16 feet? is quite a small angle, so I  

don't think that's where the lack of caster angle came from.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 761.4 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~239 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

On Sep 9, 2009, at 11:08 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn, I have the bush gear which is 4" taller. The tailwheel pivot  

 bolt did not have enough castor angle. As a matter of fact it had  

 alot of the wrong castor angle.  I had the spring flattened  

 considerably. I don't think 4" taller landing gear made all the  

 difference, but maybe.  I don't have those spacers in my tailwheel  

 mounting. Just the plate welded to the fusalage and the bottom  

 plate. I wondered about the ability of my mounting to keep the  

 spring from shifting sideways at that clamping point.

 Your plane weighs 32# more than mine. You have a much heavier  

 engine. I don't remember the individual main weights. It is 590 on  

 the mains and 38# on the rear. I really thought I would come in  

 around 590#, but my plane has everything on it and doors that have  

 a heavy latch system and gas struts. I can see how I went  

 overboard, and could have eliminated maybe 50#. But damn it, I  

 don't see how those boys bring a mod 3 kitfox in under 500# with  

 anything at all on the plane.



 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL



 On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>  

 wrote:

 



 There are two spacers, one on either side of the stack of leaves,  

 and there is a #10 AN bolt that goes up through a metal clamping  

 plate, then through each of these spacers, and into a metal plate  

 that is welded to the fuselage. They are used to keep the leaves in  

 alignment. My leaves are 1-1/4" wide.

 My empty weight was 650 at the weigh-in, but probably closer to  

 660-670 by now. At weigh-in there was 43 lbs on the rear, 305 on  

 one wheel and 302 on the other...funny how I can still remember  

 those numbers. My extra weight on the rear undoubtedly came from  

 the ribs that I built into the vertical and the rudder.



 You had to have the NEW springs from McBean re-arched? Why?

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, #2062, 761.4 hrs

 Countdown to 1000 hrs~239 to go

 Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

 Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 Rotec TBI-40 injection

 Status: flying

 On Sep 9, 2009, at 6:20 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:



 Lynn. I had to have mine rearched and didn't have the top spring  

 rearched. I can have that done no problem if I decide to use it..  

 What spacers are you talking about? Also what is the empty weight  

 of yur plane?



 Pat Reilly

 ubscription,

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http:// 

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 =====





 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:20 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

Lynn, I will make a set of those spacers if I don't find them in the misc. fasteners I have left over. I think you are wrong on the Rotax 582 weight. I don't think it is anywhere near 132#. I have seen a weight on it but it escapes my memory right now. Your right, the 4" taller gear can't have much effect on the castor angle. I don't think my bush gear with 21"x12"x8" inch tires and tubes weighs much less than your landing gear. Those tires and tubes are heavy.

   

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

 On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 8:16 AM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)> wrote:

 [quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>

For some reason I thought that the 582 was pretty close to the 132 (advertised) lbs of the Jabiru, but I could be wrong. Oh,oh, I see another engine-weight battle looming on the horizon. : )

 

If you don't have those little spacers, the bottom plate can be bent by over-tightening the #10 bolts...or maybe even bend the welded-on plate. Maybe that's where the Model 3 saved some weight...just kidding....but that's how weight is saved. Also, I have the Grove gear which is heavier but I wouldn't trade it for anything. I'm sure my high number of flying hours is a direct tribute to not being in the hangar straightening my landing gear.

 

I'm wondering if those light mod 3's even HAVE doors on them? That's another thing...I have the double pin latches, AND the lower door latch, and gas struts. Maybe I saved some weight in my paint job, as much as I see fading and wearing off where I grab the plane to push it around. : ) (I didn't try to save weight when it came to the Poly-Spray, though)

 

Four inches over...what....16 feet? is quite a small angle, so I don't think that's where the lack of caster angle came from.  



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 761.4 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~239 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying



 On Sep 9, 2009, at 11:08 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:

 [quote] Lynn, I have the bush gear which is 4" taller. The tailwheel pivot bolt did not have enough castor angle. As a matter of fact it had alot of the wrong castor angle.  I had the spring flattened considerably. I don't think 4" taller landing gear made all the difference, but maybe.  I don't have those spacers in my tailwheel mounting. Just the plate welded to the fusalage and the bottom plate. I wondered about the ability of my mounting to keep the spring from shifting sideways at that clamping point.

 Your plane weighs 32# more than mine. You have a much heavier engine. I don't remember the individual main weights. It is 590 on the mains and 38# on the rear. I really thought I would come in around 590#, but my plane has everything on it and doors that have a heavy latch system and gas struts. I can see how I went overboard, and could have eliminated maybe 50#. But damn it, I don't see how those boys bring a mod 3 kitfox in under 500# with anything at all on the plane.

 

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford, IL



On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)> wrote:

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>

 

There are two spacers, one on either side of the stack of leaves, and there is a #10 AN bolt that goes up through a metal clamping plate, then through each of these spacers, and into a metal plate that is welded to the fuselage. They are used to keep the leaves in alignment. My leaves are 1-1/4" wide.

 My empty weight was 650 at the weigh-in, but probably closer to 660-670 by now. At weigh-in there was 43 lbs on the rear, 305 on one wheel and 302 on the other...funny how I can still remember those numbers. My extra weight on the rear undoubtedly came from the ribs that I built into the vertical and the rudder.

 

You had to have the NEW springs from McBean re-arched? Why?

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 761.4 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~239 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

 Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

On Sep 9, 2009, at 6:20 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:



Lynn. I had to have mine rearched and didn't have the top spring rearched. I can have that done no problem if I decide to use it.. What spacers are you talking about? Also what is the empty weight of yur plane?

 

Pat Reilly



ubscription,

www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

Matt Dralle, List Admin.

=====

 



http:=====

  http://forums.mle, List Admin.

 =====



[b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:19 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

It certainly SHOULD weigh less, and probably does, but somewhere I  

got the notion that it was close.

Regarding the spacers, I had to grid a flat on one side of each of  

mine to make them fit. The idea is to hold the sides of the leaves  

close together so they won't splay out. And it's always a good idea  

to lay some heavy grease between the leaves to keep them from wearing  

and rusting. I noticed today that the ride is somewhat smoother with  

the short (helper) spring cut shorter, but it could stand some more,  

I think.



When I was working on the spring yesterday, I noticed that the  

tailwheel spindle bushing was badly worn, so next week after MERFI,  

I'll need to order a bushing and repair that.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 762.9 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~237 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

On Sep 10, 2009, at 8:39 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn, I will make a set of those spacers if I don't find them in  

 the misc. fasteners I have left over. I think you are wrong on the  

 Rotax 582 weight. I don't think it is anywhere near 132#. I have  

 seen a weight on it but it escapes my memory right now. Your right,  

 the 4" taller gear can't have much effect on the castor angle. I  

 don't think my bush gear with 21"x12"x8" inch tires and tubes  

 weighs much less than your landing gear. Those tires and tubes are  

 heavy.



 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:24 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

Lynn, Damn! Thanks for reminding me about the grease. I had a heavy coat on originally. But I didn't regrease them when I had the springs rearched. I just got a bottle of some special brake slide pin and pad end stuff that is suposed to be water resistant that I will use. I used some on the disc brake job that I did on my van and I'd say the stuff is more like waterproof than resistant. It is blue and looks like Naval Jelly. Feels like a jelly lubricant, but I don't think you can washit off with any amount of water unless under high pressure.

  Our EAA chapter is having another cup race in October here in Rockford if anyone is interested.

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL 

 On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)> wrote:

 [quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>

It certainly SHOULD weigh less, and probably does, but somewhere I got the notion that it was close.

 Regarding the spacers, I had to grid a flat on one side of each of mine to make them fit. The idea is to hold the sides of the leaves close together so they won't splay out. And it's always a good idea to lay some heavy grease between the leaves to keep them from wearing and rusting. I noticed today that the ride is somewhat smoother with the short (helper) spring cut shorter, but it could stand some more, I think.

 

When I was working on the spring yesterday, I noticed that the tailwheel spindle bushing was badly worn, so next week after MERFI, I'll need to order a bushing and repair that.  

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger



Jabiru 2200, #2062, 762.9 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~237 to go  

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying



 On Sep 10, 2009, at 8:39 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  Lynn, I will make a set of those spacers if I don't find them in the misc. fasteners I have left over. I think you are wrong on the Rotax 582 weight. I don't think it is anywhere near 132#. I have seen a weight on it but it escapes my memory right now. Your right, the 4" taller gear can't have much effect on the castor angle. I don't think my bush gear with 21"x12"x8" inch tires and tubes weighs much less than your landing gear. Those tires and tubes are heavy.

 

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford, IL



	




  

 ubscription,

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 =====



[b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:49 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

Remind us again as it gets closer, Pat, along with details about the  

length of the race, etc.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 762.9 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~237 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

do not archive



On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn, Damn! Thanks for reminding me about the grease. I had a heavy  

 coat on originally. But I didn't regrease them when I had the  

 springs rearched. I just got a bottle of some special brake slide  

 pin and pad end stuff that is suposed to be water resistant that I  

 will use. I used some on the disc brake job that I did on my van  

 and I'd say the stuff is more like waterproof than resistant. It is  

 blue and looks like Naval Jelly. Feels like a jelly lubricant, but  

 I don't think you can washit off with any amount of water unless  

 under high pressure.

 Our EAA chapter is having another cup race in October here in  

 Rockford if anyone is interested.



 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:22 am Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

Lynn, I will get details. We use 3 different length courses to accomidate any speed plane, race is sprint race. It lasts abbout 1/2 hour.

 Pat Reilly

 On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)> wrote:

 [quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>

Remind us again as it gets closer, Pat, along with details about the length of the race, etc.  



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 762.9 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~237 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying



do not archive  



On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  Lynn, Damn! Thanks for reminding me about the grease. I had a heavy coat on originally. But I didn't regrease them when I had the springs rearched. I just got a bottle of some special brake slide pin and pad end stuff that is suposed to be water resistant that I will use. I used some on the disc brake job that I did on my van and I'd say the stuff is more like waterproof than resistant. It is blue and looks like Naval Jelly. Feels like a jelly lubricant, but I don't think you can washit off with any amount of water unless under high pressure.

 Our EAA chapter is having another cup race in October here in Rockford if anyone is interested.



Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford, IL



	




  

 ubscription,

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 =====



[b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:00 am Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09

Thanks, Pat.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 762.9 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~237 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

do not archive



On Sep 11, 2009, at 10:38 AM, Patrick Reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn, I will get details. We use 3 different length courses to  

 accomidate any speed plane, race is sprint race. It lasts abbout  

 1/2 hour.

 Pat Reilly



 On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>  

 wrote:

 



 Remind us again as it gets closer, Pat, along with details about  

 the length of the race, etc.

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, #2062, 762.9 hrs

 Countdown to 1000 hrs~237 to go

 Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

 Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 Rotec TBI-40 injection

 Status: flying

 do not archive

 On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:



 Lynn, Damn! Thanks for reminding me about the grease. I had a heavy  

 coat on originally. But I didn't regrease them when I had the  

 springs rearched. I just got a bottle of some special brake slide  

 pin and pad end stuff that is suposed to be water resistant that I  

 will use. I used some on the disc brake job that I did on my van  

 and I'd say the stuff is more like waterproof than resistant. It is  

 blue and looks like Naval Jelly. Feels like a jelly lubricant, but  

 I don't think you can washit off with any amount of water unless  

 under high pressure.

 Our EAA chapter is having another cup race in October here in  

 Rockford if anyone is interested.



 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

 ubscription,

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http:// 

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 =====





 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum