Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

off topic: Languages

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:48 pm Post subject: off topic: Languages

On Apr 14, 2006, at 9:39 PM, Rueb, Duane wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   You do quite well with English,


	


Thank you Duane.

I would never make fun of someone writing with a lot of mistakes, even 

his or her mother tongue. There are many people suffering of dyslexia 

or other speech/writing disorders. On the other hand, it is very 

pleasant to read something that is well written. However, the art of 

writing is maybe old fashion. In the old days, when writing meant to 

sharpen a pen, dip it in the ink, and write carefully on a precious 

piece of paper, one was more careful. While the internet broaden our 

communications, and we write so much more, it goes at the price of 

quality.



Cheers,

Michel



do not archive

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

ddsyverson(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:28 pm Post subject: off topic: Languages

Well guys,



For an off topic post, I am not really sure it is off topic.



For those who grew up with english as their first language, all of the goofy 

expression routinely used make perfect sense.



But then, how would you explain to someone who does not have english as a 

first language, the fact that "a slim chance" and "a fat chance" mean the 

same thing; we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway; then there are 

things which don't make that much phonetic sense, such as "a settling tank" 

and "acetylene tank"; or worse yet "hormones" and "w____  moans".



Its gotta be confusing to an english as a second language person who is just 

starting to learn it.



Now - why is this not really off topic? As pilots, we stick to a refined and 

defined version of the language, particularily when working with a flight 

briefer, tower or enroute controller; that is why we have the Pilots and 

Controllers Glossary - so both sides are speaking the same language, Pilots 

of many different language backgrounds, even with limited english, can get 

along just fine in the system because we have this succinct version of the 

language we all use.



Problems do arise when folks start getting a bit too loosy goosey with the 

definitions, such as the Chicago controller who casually instructed a 

transport departing an airport to the north to make a "right turn to 70"  - 

the pilot, understood "right turn, 270" - which he proceeded to do, resulting 

in a whole lot of unanticipated re-routing of aircraft. Nobody the worse for 

the wear, and, possibly a bit of justice in that the controller had to suffer 

with the results of his indiscretion by needing to sort the mess out in front 

of his peers and probably a little discussion with management.



Dave S



DO NOT ARCHIVE



  

On Friday 14 April 2006 3:46 pm, Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 On Apr 14, 2006, at 9:39 PM, Rueb, Duane wrote:

 > You do quite well with English,



 Thank you Duane.

  



 Cheers,

 Michel



 do not archive

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: off topic: Languages

It is funny how the human mind works, especially with

something as important as language.  For example:



Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it

deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod

are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and

lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a

total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm.

Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey

lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe



I wonder if this is as easy to read for those who do

not have English as a primary language as it is for

those who do?



I also know that we tend to look at immages

differently depending upon how we read.  Chinese

people, who read vertically, will interept body

language and art differently because they place

priority on a different place in the image than left

to right readers do.  We see someone looking from left

to right as pleasingly progressive or superior and

those looking from right to left as more contrary or

inferior.  But what if you read from right to left, or

top to bottom?  The priority point shifts in the

immage for you depending on your learned scanning from

reading.



Which way should the bunny rabbit hop across the

screen so as not to scare the children?  Depends upon

whether they have started reading yet or not.



People in advertising and journalism know and use this

skill to infleuence your thinking without you catching

on.  The favored product or politician is positioned

in the favorite space for us,  and the unfavored one

is given a contrarian or inferior position.  Most

people react emotionally to the position before they

ever get to the substance.



But this doesn't always translate well in other

countries.  Sometimes a difference of opinion can be

this simple - a matter of scanning based upon reading.

 I have seen it more easily demonstrated in how people

view art.



Ah, for a quiet list.....



Kurt S.

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject: off topic: Languages

Right Dave!



I learned that it was hard to explain in German how

you can chop a tree down, and then chop it up.



Likewise the Brizialian controllers that I hear

consistantly using the Portugese word for half-a-dozen

instead of six (6) for frequencies, call signs and

such.  Wad'he'say?



Kurt S.



--- Dave and Diane <ddsyverson(at)comcast.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Well guys,

 

 For an off topic post, I am not really sure it is

 off topic.

 

 For those who grew up with english as their first

 language, all of the goofy 

 expression routinely used make perfect sense.

.......................
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Dave S

 

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

aldaniels(at)fmtc.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:32 pm Post subject: off topic: Languages

I realize this is not an airplane topic, but I am very pleased that we 

can have this discussion. I have never been out of the country and I 

find this fascinating. The depth of this group is outstanding. I wish I 

had something to add but I don't, but I feel privileged to be to 

learning from those that know so much more than I do on this subject.



Thank you



Alan



 	  Quote:

Mo

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:21 pm Post subject: off topic: Languages

Perhaps the easiest spoken language is Chinese.  It doesn't have any

tenses or articles ( a or the ), as, I go to store last week, or, I go to

store next week.  It does have a very difficult written language though.



Maurice Fitzgerald, N831MF, S7 912S whose kit was released from Skyscrew

last Friday and is now in John McBean's hangar.

---

n10pg(at)neo.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:39 am Post subject: off topic: Languages

--

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:12 am Post subject: off topic: Languages

Nothing better than "sudden" progress.



Well, except releasing a KitFox from captivity.



Kurt S.



Do not archive



--- Mo <mo44d(at)comcast.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Maurice Fitzgerald, N831MF, S7 912S whose kit was

 released from Skyscrew

 last Friday and is now in John McBean's hangar.

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:53 pm Post subject: off topic: Languages

What I meant to say, Kurt, Rex and Dave, is that English uses words 

from both Germanic and Latin origins. Like snake and serpent, or trip 

and voyage. This makes a hell of a lot of words to learn for a student. 

However, it is possible to learn a simple English, as my father was 

taught when he came to England during WW II. An Englishman will shut 

the gate. A foreigner will close the door, the latter being "poor man's 

English."



But "to seven zero" being understood as "two seven zero" is the fault 

of the ATC controller. When a word can be misunderstood, it is 

pronounced differently. E.g "nine" is "niner." In French, "un" (one) is 

pronounced "unite." And that's probably  the reason, Kurt, your 

Brazilian controller said "half a dozen" for "six."



On another off-topic subject, I agree, Kurt, that the answer is 

forty-two. Mind you, it could also be forty-three, but I know that the 

answer is very simple. Let me give you an example:



As he sat for his long westward journey, Columbus had three 

alternatives:

1) The earth could be flat and ends somewhere, then there is only the 

big void.

2) The earth could be flat and infinite, always new lands, new seas, to 

the end of times.

3) The earth could be volumetric. Given enough time, you'll eventually 

come back to your point of departure.



Now, consider the universe. Strangely enough most people envision only 

one alternative. Why is that?



On a more down to earth note, here is a small video of my flight today 

(1.7 Mb):



http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/Fyresdal.mov



Unfortunately it was a bit turbulent and the camera wasn't very steady. 

Note the strange pattern in the ice.



Cheers,

Michel



Do not archive

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: off topic: Languages

Oh I see Michel,



I too must have missed something between the two of

us, but your reference to WW II cleared it up.  



Continuing with this fun, off topic, language

trivia....



One of our New York papers did a check of how many

different words they used in the publication of a

daily paper and came up with only about 600.  A lot

could be said about that!  However, reporters

apparently are the ones least likely to say it.



In the U.S., as you referred to when talking about how

we write, (right?) we use a much more limited

vocabulary then was common in the past.  (Except for

technology words)  For example, I was just looking the

word "rhythm" up to check my spelling and had to type

"cadence" and cross check it because the computer had

no idea of what I was spelling?  Nor did I apparently.

 So then....



Sentence structure, rhythm and tone were better taught

years ago in my opinion.  Discipline in school was

important then and stressed as the "three R's".  Did

Reading wRighting and aRithmatic as R's mess with our

spelling?



If you read "Lost Horizons" you get a much better use

of the English language than you see in most books and

every newspaper today.  It is a joy to read, even

though it is a story of perfection only for those who

lived at the top of the food chain in a class society.

 There is a mastery of language in that book.



Of course, that is a British book and not U.S.  We

remain "two countries divided by a common language",

as Churchill said.



"When in the course of human events...." signed back

on July 4th, 1776, was written in only three days.  It

showed that some people could write a declarative

document of such importance, starting with one phrase

of so few that said so much, and kept it all to one

page.  Who could write so effectively today?



Did you know that Daniel Webster learned 22 languages

while writing the first U.S. English dictionary? 

Before that, you spelled words according to how they

sounded when you spoke them.  Your regional dialect

was evident, such as when Daniel Boone wrote about his

dawg!  (That is Kentucky talk for dog)



Next?



Kurt S.



Do not archive

Clem Nichols

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Munfordville, Ky

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: off topic: Languages

Yes, and that porcine creature from which is made prosciutto is also a hawg.



Clem Nichols

Do Not Archive

---

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:59 am Post subject: off topic: Languages

Clem,



You actually read all the way to the end!



Michels nurse is done with his meds and is heading in

my direction.  I'll send her your way when she is done

here.  



After that I'll be unconscious on this subject.  I am

down to the last of my 2 cents worth of credibility as

it is.



Kurt S.



--- Clem Nichols <cnichols(at)scrtc.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Yes, and that porcine creature from which is made

 prosciutto is also a hawg.

 

 Clem Nichols

 Do Not Archive

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum