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radiopicture
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263
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 Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:25 am Post subject: Yak-List: |
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I don't think they do (or did) any of this stuff in the Eastern Bloc. Maybe that's because circumstances were different. Judging by the equipment that came with my Yak-52, these planes were intended to be supported by a ground crew that we're not likely to have here. Maybe the Russians had a mechanic Junior Grade with the responsibility of making sure the oil pump check valve was closed. Having said this, I think about balancing the prospect of a hydraulic lock (when all proper procedures seem to have been followed) with the risks of improvising something, even when I know the re-engineers are qualified. Tough one.
On Feb 26, 2010, at 1:08 AM, William Halverson wrote:[quote]
Sounds like a filter or screen before the oil pump would keep 'stuff' out of the pump and increase the chances the internal valve stays clean ...
Thanks for the good info!
William
At 08:47 AM 2/25/2010, you wrote:
[quote]There is an internal "valve" in the oil pump which may remain open. Jill of M14P, Inc. did an excellent article in one of the recent issues of the RPA magazine about this problem. See the Fall of 2009 issue, page 15 attached. If this valve remains open even slightly, oil will drain from the oil tank into the engine which may cause the hydraulic lock. Although Jim Kimball's oil shut off and drain kit are outstanding, the root of the problem is internal to the oil pump.
Dennis
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:43 am Post subject: Yak-List: |
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Eric,
No human being can get to the "oil pump check valve" as long as the oil pump is mounted to the engine. It is internal to the oil pump.
This problem has bounced around via the list for years. The root of the problem is in the oil pump itself (as pointed out in Jill's article) and the net is as long as we install any type of external shut off or mechanism to drain the sump in an attempt to keep the oil from pooling in the lower cylinders, we're truthfully just masking the problem.
Dennis
[quote] ---
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:09 am Post subject: Yak-List: |
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Whatever you do do not put a filter on the line going INTO the engine. This was done and the gentleman almost lost his engine due to low oil pressure. This pump is not a good "sucker." The screen is there to take out "Big pieces", not to empted the oil flow.
Putting a filter on the out line, keeps the entire system cleaner i.e., lines, oil cooler (more efficient), and tank. Because the oil is thinned out from the heat, it goes though the filter easier. Also a 10 micron filter removes almost all of the ware causing particulates.
A oil tank shut off valve has been on my engine 1,500 hours now. I've never had a hydraulic lock and there ain' no oil on my hangar floor.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
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radiopicture
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:44 am Post subject: Yak-List: |
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That's the Kimball valve with a microswitch starter lockout and a Bowden cable to control it?
On Feb 26, 2010, at 9:06 AM, cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com) wrote:
[quote] Whatever you do do not put a filter on the line going INTO the engine. This was done and the gentleman almost lost his engine due to low oil pressure. This pump is not a good "sucker." The screen is there to take out "Big pieces", not to empted the oil flow.
Putting a filter on the out line, keeps the entire system cleaner i.e., lines, oil cooler (more efficient), and tank. Because the oil is thinned out from the heat, it goes though the filter easier. Also a 10 micron filter removes almost all of the ware causing particulates.
A oil tank shut off valve has been on my engine 1,500 hours now. I've never had a hydraulic lock and there ain' no oil on my hangar floor.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
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radiopicture
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:44 am Post subject: Yak-List: |
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Dennis:
Sure, didn't mean to say that the valve could be manipulated remotely, only that you'd know about it, and perhaps replace the pump. I guess they loved to keep people working back then, so maybe not such a show stopper in a big governmental system.
You said masking the problem... Meaning a bad check valve design, something that tends to clog it open a bit, or what? I'll find Jill's article today.
-Eric
On Feb 26, 2010, at 8:35 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
[quote]Eric,
No human being can get to the "oil pump check valve" as long as the oil pump is mounted to the engine. It is internal to the oil pump.
This problem has bounced around via the list for years. The root of the problem is in the oil pump itself (as pointed out in Jill's article) and the net is as long as we install any type of external shut off or mechanism to drain the sump in an attempt to keep the oil from pooling in the lower cylinders, we're truthfully just masking the problem.
Dennis
[quote]---
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:11 am Post subject: Yak-List: |
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Masking the problem means covering up the real problem, which is the valve in the oil pump which remains open and allows the oil in the tank to continue to drain into the engine. I did not imply a bad check valve design since I am certainly not qualified to make that statement. As end users of the engine we do know what causes the oil to drain into the engine and that is the result of the internal valve in the oil pump not closing completely for whatever reason. We either fix the oil pump properly (Jill's solution) or if we don't fix the oil pump we install the oil shut off valve which stops the oil from the oil tank from leaking through the internal valve in the oil pump and into the engine.
Dennis
[quote] ---
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:49 am Post subject: Yak-List: |
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No. This set up was done by Bill Blackwell. It works the same way though. This unite is opened and closed electrically. There is a micro switch built into the valve itself - independent of the power that drive the valve motor. Does the same thing.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
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radiopicture
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:42 pm Post subject: Yak-List: |
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Makes sense.
On Feb 26, 2010, at 9:53 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
[quote]Masking the problem means covering up the real problem, which is the valve in the oil pump which remains open and allows the oil in the tank to continue to drain into the engine. I did not imply a bad check valve design since I am certainly not qualified to make that statement. As end users of the engine we do know what causes the oil to drain into the engine and that is the result of the internal valve in the oil pump not closing completely for whatever reason. We either fix the oil pump properly (Jill's solution) or if we don't fix the oil pump we install the oil shut off valve which stops the oil from the oil tank from leaking through the internal valve in the oil pump and into the engine.
Dennis
[quote]---
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