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windows & fiberglass

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jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: windows & fiberglass

I've found resin mixed with flox and cabosil  to be the best for a  

feathered edge.



Jeff Carpenter

40304

On May 28, 2010, at 6:57 AM, rvdave wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I'm filling the window joint with glass cloth but having problem   

 getting a good feathered edge to the window.  Apparently epoxy resin  

 is not the best for a feathered edge, I've tried mixing with  

 cabosil, not good either.  Thinking about the blue polyfiber two  

 part mix but don't know about the bond to plex.



 --------

 Dave Ford

 RV6 flying

 RV10 building

 Cadillac, MI





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299126#299126

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MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 11:06 am Post subject: windows & fiberglass

I'm in the process of doing same this weekend.



I have taped off the edge and filled in the gap and am ready to cover 

with light weight tape/cloth.



What techniques and tools work well for creating this edge?



Bill "finishing up the glass pieces" Watson

40605



Jeff Carpenter wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I've found resin mixed with flox and cabosil  to be the best for a 

 feathered edge.



 Jeff Carpenter

 40304

 On May 28, 2010, at 6:57 AM, rvdave wrote:



> 

>

> I'm filling the window joint with glass cloth but having problem  

> getting a good feathered edge to the window.  Apparently epoxy resin 

> is not the best for a feathered edge, I've tried mixing with cabosil, 

> not good either.  Thinking about the blue polyfiber two part mix but 

> don't know about the bond to plex.

>

> --------

> Dave Ford

> RV6 flying

> RV10 building

> Cadillac, MI

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299126#299126

>

>

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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest

Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 11:36 am Post subject: windows & fiberglass

Bill, Jeff, Dave,



Pick up some "fine line tape" from the autobody store.  It looks like (may very well be, not sure) narrow electrical tape.  I think it comes in 1/8" and 1/4" widths.  The narrow width makes it really easy to mask in the tight corners.

  

A nice trick is to run the ends of the tape back into the center of the masked area so you know where find them, like a little freeway on-ramp/off-ramp.



Use the fine line tape on the plex where you want the overlay to end.  The special tape will keep the resin from getting underneath it.

  

Build up one or two layers over the fine line tape with regular electrical tape.  That gives you a little dam to run the resin up to.  The glass should stop just short of the dam, maybe 1/32" - 1/16".  After the resin has cured, bodywork the glass overlay all the way to the tape with SuperFil or something similar.  Jeff, I remember you had problems with the feathered edge not adhering to the base.  Flox would be fine in a situation like that but here the filled area will be so small that Superfil should work OK.

  

You won't end up with a smooth feathered edge from the plex to the glass.  You'll have a little edge as thick as the tape dam.  The paint will go another 1/16-1/4" onto the plex and fair in that little edge very nicely.

  Dave Saylor

AirCrafters LLC

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 95076

831-722-9141 Shop

831-750-0284 Cell

 



On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 12:01 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com (MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:

[quote]  --> RV10-List message posted by: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com (MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com)>

 

 I'm in the process of doing same this weekend.

 

 I have taped off the edge and filled in the gap and am ready to cover with light weight tape/cloth.

 

 What techniques and tools work well for creating this edge?

 

 Bill "finishing up the glass pieces" Watson

 40605



 

 Jeff Carpenter wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com (jeff(at)westcottpress.com)>

 

 I've found resin mixed with flox and cabosil  to be the best for a feathered edge.

 

 Jeff Carpenter

 40304

 

 

 On May 28, 2010, at 6:57 AM, rvdave wrote:

 

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: "rvdave" <davidbf(at)centurytel.net (davidbf(at)centurytel.net)>

 

 I'm filling the window joint with glass cloth but having problem  getting a good feathered edge to the window.  Apparently epoxy resin is not the best for a feathered edge, I've tried mixing with cabosil, not good either.  Thinking about the blue polyfiber two part mix but don't know about the bond to plex.

   

 --------

 Dave Ford

 RV6 flying

 RV10 building

 Cadillac, MI

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299126#299126

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 	
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 	
 

 

 

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 http://forums.matronics.com

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 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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[b]

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MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 12:24 pm Post subject: windows & fiberglass

Perfect!  Thanks so much Dave.



Bill "now psyched for the job" Watson



Dave Saylor wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Bill, Jeff, Dave,



 Pick up some "fine line tape" from the autobody store.  It looks like 

 (may very well be, not sure) narrow electrical tape.  I think it comes 

 in 1/8" and 1/4" widths.  The narrow width makes it really easy to 

 mask in the tight corners.



 A nice trick is to run the ends of the tape back into the center of 

 the masked area so you know where find them, like a little freeway 

 on-ramp/off-ramp.



 Use the fine line tape on the plex where you want the overlay to end.  

 The special tape will keep the resin from getting underneath it.



 Build up one or two layers over the fine line tape with regular 

 electrical tape.  That gives you a little dam to run the resin up to.  

 The glass should stop just short of the dam, maybe 1/32" - 1/16".  

 After the resin has cured, bodywork the glass overlay all the way to 

 the tape with SuperFil or something similar.  Jeff, I remember you had 

 problems with the feathered edge not adhering to the base.  Flox would 

 be fine in a situation like that but here the filled area will be so 

 small that Superfil should work OK.



 You won't end up with a smooth feathered edge from the plex to the 

 glass.  You'll have a little edge as thick as the tape dam.  The paint 

 will go another 1/16-1/4" onto the plex and fair in that little edge 

 very nicely.



 Dave Saylor

 AirCrafters LLC

 140 Aviation Way

 Watsonville, CA 95076

 831-722-9141 Shop

 831-750-0284 Cell

 On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 12:01 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson 

 <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com <mailto:MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>> wrote:



     

     <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com <mailto:MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>>



     I'm in the process of doing same this weekend.



     I have taped off the edge and filled in the gap and am ready to

     cover with light weight tape/cloth.



     What techniques and tools work well for creating this edge?



     Bill "finishing up the glass pieces" Watson

     40605

     Jeff Carpenter wrote:



         

         <jeff(at)westcottpress.com <mailto:jeff(at)westcottpress.com>>



         I've found resin mixed with flox and cabosil  to be the best

         for a feathered edge.



         Jeff Carpenter

         40304

         On May 28, 2010, at 6:57 AM, rvdave wrote:



             

             <davidbf(at)centurytel.net <mailto:davidbf(at)centurytel.net>>



             I'm filling the window joint with glass cloth but having

             problem  getting a good feathered edge to the window.

              Apparently epoxy resin is not the best for a feathered

             edge, I've tried mixing with cabosil, not good either.

              Thinking about the blue polyfiber two part mix but don't

             know about the bond to plex.



             --------

             Dave Ford

             RV6 flying

             RV10 building

             Cadillac, MI





             Read this topic online here:



             http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299126#299126

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     ===========

     http://forums.matronics.com

     ===========

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     ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

     ===========



 *

 *

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rvdave

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 191

Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: windows & fiberglass

Thanks Dave for the tips, the issue I've had so far was bringing the resin to electrical tape which looked fine as I laid it in.  The problem began as I began to remove the tape, the overflow of resin on the tape in some places began to pull up on the areas of feathering to the point that it looked as if it did not have good adhesion to the plexiglass.  I did sand the plex very well but as I pulled the tape I could see the area turn a whitish color indicating a pulling away.  My concern is the adhesion down the road and the pulling away/bubbling of the paint.  If I hear you right the last 1/16 inch of polyfiber should feather nicely and resolve the concerns of any pulling of resin from the plex?

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_________________
Dave Ford
Cadillac, MI

dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest

Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 7:46 am Post subject: windows & fiberglass

Dave,



If the resin is peeling up with the tape, there could be a few different things going on.



Keep in mind that the chemical bond between typical laminating resin and plex is never great.  You get a decent mechanical bond by scuffing the plex, as you did.  Not to digress, but Weld-On, for example, does a better job bonding chemically to the plex than laminating resin ever does.

  

By reinforcing the resin with the fiberglass layers, you can sort of cantilever a little bridge out over the plex.  The glass helps the bridge be stiff enough to ensure that the relatively weak bond to the plex is protected, that the bond to the plex doesn't see a peeling load, and it stays stuck.

  

What may be happening in your case is that the body of resin between the edge of the glass  and the tape is too wide.  Then the un-reinforced resin could be flexible enough that removing the tape breaks the weak resin bond.  If that's the case, then you'll need the glass to be closer to the edge of the tape.

  

Or, you may have some resin still overlapping the tape so when the tape was lifted it pulled on the resin too.  You'll need to sand all the way down to the tape to make sure that the only part of the resin touching the tape is the tiny vertical "thickness".  By all means make sure that the glass doesn't overlap the tape.

  

One thing you might want to change is the way that you remove the tape.  Once you get an inch or so of the tape lifted off the plex, try folding the tail of the tape back around so the sticky side is up, and pull the tail back at 90* to the masked edge--see attached photo.  That puts the least amount of peeling stress on the resin/plex bond.

  

Another problem might be that the resin is still a little soft.  There's a period before it's fully cured when it's still kind of rubbery and it might pull off the plex.  You have to be super careful if you decide to try to warm the resin around plex--the plex starts to deform at relatively low temps (see:  my windshield-grr).  We use electric blankets almost exclusively now whenever we want to hurry up a curing cycle.

  

Let me know if you think you have something different going on.  We'll get it figured out.

Dave Saylor

AirCrafters LLC

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 95076

831-722-9141 Shop

831-750-0284 Cell

   



On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:01 PM, rvdave <davidbf(at)centurytel.net (davidbf(at)centurytel.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    --> RV10-List message posted by: "rvdave" <davidbf(at)centurytel.net (davidbf(at)centurytel.net)>

 

 Thanks Dave for the tips, the issue I've had so far was bringing the resin to electrical tape which looked fine as I laid it in.  The problem began as I began to remove the tape, the overflow of resin on the tape in some places began to pull up on the areas of feathering to the point that it looked as if it did not have good adhesion to the plexiglass.  I did sand the plex very well but as I pulled the tape I could see the area turn a whitish color indicating a pulling away.  My concern is the adhesion down the road and the pulling away/bubbling of the paint.  If I hear you right the last 1/16 inch of polyfiber should feather nicely and resolve the concerns of any pulling of resin from the plex?

   

 --------

 Dave Ford

 RV6 flying

 RV10 building

 Cadillac, MI

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299226#299226

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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rvdave

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 191

Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: windows & fiberglass

 	  dave.saylor.aircrafters(a wrote: 	
		  Dave,



If the resin is peeling up with the tape, there could be a few different things going on.



What may be happening in your case is that the body of resin between the edge of the glassï¿½ and the tape is too wide.ï¿½ Then the un-reinforced resin could be flexible enough that removing the tape breaks the weak resin bond.ï¿½ If that's the case, then you'll need the glass to be closer to the edge of the tape.

  

Or, you may have some resin still overlapping the tape so when the tape was lifted it pulled on the resin too.ï¿½ You'll need to sand all the way down to the tape to make sure that the only part of the resin touching the tape is the tiny vertical "thickness".ï¿½ By all means make sure that the glass doesn't overlap the tape.

  



 

 

 	
[/quote]



Dave,



I think this is probably what is happening, a combination of not enough glass close to the tape, too wide of a resin bridge, and resin left on the tape.  So I'll redo & leave a smaller gap, use polyfiber to feather in to the tape, then sand the electrical tape to remove any film that may pull.  I'm assuming two layers of glass would be sufficient.

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_________________
Dave Ford
Cadillac, MI

dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest

Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 1:36 pm Post subject: windows & fiberglass

 	  Quote: 	
		  I'm assuming two layers of glass would be sufficient.<


	


Definitely.  One layer of 7781 (very common cloth) should be enough.



Dave

  [quote][b]

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